Current Events > So did Batman (spoilers for TB)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lose? The riddler succeeded in flooding Gotham. The only thing he didnt do was kill Bruce Wayne

Riddler certainly didn't sound very happy in the scene after the flooding.

Legato-and-Vash posted...

Riddler certainly didn't sound very happy in the scene after the flooding.

True, but why? Like tc said he succeeded at nearly everything. He even seemed ok that he missed a target.

Was it only because his followers didn't kill as many people as he wanted?

Not tuberculosis!

KogaSteelfang posted...

True, but why? Like tc said he succeeded at nearly everything. He even seemed ok that he missed a target.

Was it only because his followers didn't kill as many people as he wanted?

Honestly, I'm not quite sure. I feel like I might have missed a few lines since some of it was heard to hear. Especially Robert Pattison. He spoke so softly in the movie. But I feel like he got super upset that Batman doesn't want to indulge with him And that his damage wasn't as severe as he wanted. Batman said he won't be remembered. But I can't remember if that was before or after the flooding scene.

Legato-and-Vash posted...

Honestly, I'm not quite sure. I feel like I might have missed a few lines since some of it was heard to hear. Especially Robert Pattison. He spoke so softly in the movie. But I feel like he got super upset that Batman doesn't want to indulge with him And that his damage wasn't as severe as he wanted. Batman said he won't be remembered. But I can't remember if that was before or after the flooding scene.

That was before. That was what lead Batman to realize there was another attack coming. It was after the flood that Riddler was freaking out and acting like he failed.

The plan wasn't just the flood. The plan was also for his minions to massacre everybody who went to the stadium for shelter. In particular, the new Mayor-Elect. Batman stopped that, and in doing so, he established himself as a symbol of hope, literally leading people out of the darkness and danger.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

The plan wasn't just the flood. The plan was also for his minions to massacre everybody who went to the stadium for shelter. In particular, the new Mayor-Elect. Batman stopped that, and in doing so, he established himself as a symbol of hope, literally leading people out of the darkness and danger.

This

On a broader level, Joker's plan in TDK (that people would kill others to save themselves) didn't work, and here Riddler's plan of showing the city beyond hope didn't work

The Riddler thought that his plan would turn Batman into his personal vigilante, essentially, after he used Batman to expose all of the corrupt officials, just like how he created a horde of online followers. He thought both he and Batman were two birds of a feather--Heroes who could only truly be themselves when wearing their masks, who would defeat the corrupt and evil nature of the city. Batman would be the brawn, and the Riddler would be the brains. It's why when Batman rejected his methods The Riddler immediately went into melt-down mode saying "This wasn't how this was supposed to go!".

Otherwise, though, Batman mostly failed. He helped to prevent deaths at the very end, but he failed to catch The Riddler in time and he failed to stop the sea walls from being destroyed. It's about him learning that being "Vengeance" is not helpful to the city. It's why he failed, because his own ability to think and act had been undermined the entire time by his own immaturity and emotions.

My main complaint with the movie was that Batman really didn't do anything to thwart the Riddler, didn't stop any of the murders, wasn't even close to catching him. And then the Riddler jobbed.

Also I don't really like the turn at all that Batman shouldn't be "vengeance," he should be "hope." A pretty big betrayal of the original character in my opinion. Batman isn't supposed to be Superman. The whole theme of this movie was basically everything the Batman character is known to be is bad and wrong.

i would say no one won.

The interrogation scene where Riddler starts spazzing out "No, this is not how it's supposed to go!" or whatever felt really forced. Riddler still seemed totally on top at that point and the dialogue just made it move in a direction the writer wanted to go instead of being natural.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

My main complaint with the movie was that Batman really didn't do anything to thwart the Riddler, didn't stop any of the murders, wasn't even close to catching him. And then the Riddler jobbed.

I can agree with this

Also I don't really like the turn at all that Batman shouldn't be "vengeance," he should be "hope." A pretty big betrayal of the original character in my opinion. Batman isn't supposed to be Superman. The whole theme of this movie was basically everything the Batman character is known to be is bad and wrong.

But here I feel his character is/has always been about that duality between vengeance and hope, and trying to stay on the hope/pushing people to be better side of the equation. You are right that he's not supposed to be a beacon like Superman, but more behind the scenes/bringing hope in smaller one on one interactions.