Current Events > I'm still not sure I understand Putin's excuse for invading Ukraine

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not the actual reason, but his justification.

Does he need one?

Because the justification is a load of shit. His reason is "he wants it".

Don't try to find any sense in the propaganda he's spewing, not even his own people believe it.

There isn't one.

Where does it end though? If I took over Ukraine, i'd be like.... well shit that was easy, let's take a shot at Miami.

Something inbetween 'America did it with the middle east' and 'they wanted me to'

He doesnt want NATO at his doorstep. Thats literally it. Its not Russian genocide or Military bio labs like he is claiming, its all about NATO and influence. Hes mad because no one likes Russia lmao

Which is still a really stupid reason to invade tbh

Ukraine is too "aggressive" what with their existing and all

His "justification" was that ethnic Russians who live in eastern Ukraine who have been there since the fall of the Soviet Union are being genocided by ethnic ukrainians and the government is complicit in it. So he had no choice but to recognize the separatists trying to break away and then offer military support to protect them. Then he staged a whole bunch of false flag attacks to produce evidence for his claim, did a bunch of half-ass diplomacy with impossible demands so that he could claim the West wasn't willing to consider diplomacy, and then he moved in.

Samurontai posted...

He doesnt want NATO at his doorstep. Thats literally it. Its not Russian genocide or Military bio labs like he is claiming, its all about NATO and influence. Hes mad because no one likes Russia lmao

Which is still a really stupid reason to invade tbh

The NATO excuse is a flimsy lie as well. If and when he takes Ukraine he'll have even more NATO countries directly on his border than he currently does with Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia.

It's probably a mix of not wanting NATO right next to him and maybe wanting to restore territory from the USSR days? That's my guess >_>

SydneySweenHero posted...

It's probably a mix of not wanting NATO right next to him and maybe wanting to restore territory from the USSR days? That's my guess >_>

See post 10

IndorilGawain posted...

The NATO excuse is a flimsy lie as well. If and when he takes Ukraine he'll have even more NATO countries directly on his border than he currently does with Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia.

They wouldn't consider Ukraine to be part of Russia though, its more like a buffer state to get to actual Russia. All he wants to do is instill fear in the area, but I think he has overplayed his hand and this will only lead to internal strife and other countries wanting to join NATO

IndorilGawain posted...

The NATO excuse is a flimsy lie as well. If and when he takes Ukraine he'll have even more NATO countries directly on his border than he currently does with Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia.

Except he isnt going to occupy Ukraine so NATO wont be on his border? He wants to kill the political leaders and replace them with his own. Itll be a puppet state, and a buffer against NATO, so no its definitely not flimsy

dude is just a power hungry tyrant who feels like he needs to flex how big his cock is...

He seems to want to absorb eastern Ukraine while neutralizing the rest of the country militarily and politically to ensure that it remains a reliable buffer state between Russia and the Western nations.

The Ukrainian government (and afaik UK intel?) absolutely believe Putin intends to occupy/annex it

Samurontai posted...

Except he isnt going to occupy Ukraine so NATO wont be on his border? He wants to kill the political leaders and replace them with his own. Itll be a puppet state, and a buffer against NATO, so no its definitely not flimsy

He's going to be there for a long time trying to quell resistance, even if he does succeed in taking the country. NATO is just one of his many excuses and not the reality.

IndorilGawain posted...

The Ukrainian government (and afaik UK intel?) absolutely believe Putin intends to occupy/annex it

Of course it will be occupied because there will be a huge amount of resistance. Russias economy is not built for permanent occupation of that caliber.

Funkydog posted...

He's going to be there for a long time trying to quell resistance, even if he does succeed in taking the country. NATO is just one of his many excuses and not the reality.

The NATO reason makes much more sense than Rebuilding the USSR lol

Samurontai posted...

The NATO reason makes much more sense than Rebuilding the USSR lol

Why? A lot of Putin's approach/persona is around "rebuilding the USSR"...

IndorilGawain posted...

The NATO excuse is a flimsy lie as well. If and when he takes Ukraine he'll have even more NATO countries directly on his border than he currently does with Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia.

It isnt about the physical borders, but rather the core territory. Ukraine becoming part of Russia ensures the Ukraine territory cant be used to threaten the important parts of Russia.

Ruvan22 posted...

Why? A lot of Putin's approach/persona is around "rebuilding the USSR"...

Because Russias economy isnt capable of sustaining some sort of wide ranged occupation like that. Plus they would literally need to invade NATO nations in order to accomplish that goal, and it would just lead to them having to spread their military thin to quell an untold amount of resistance

It makes absolutely zero sense lmao

Russia already did this exact same thing in Georgia 14 years ago. They exploited an internal conflict between ethnic groups as a flimsy excuse to invade and completely deter NATO membership. Idk why people keep forgetting this

Samurontai posted...

Because Russias economy isnt capable of sustaining some sort of wide ranged occupation like that. Plus they would literally need to invade NATO nations in order to accomplish that goal, and it would just lead to them having to spread their military thin to quell an untold amount of resistance

It makes absolutely zero sense lmao

If we were talking about multiple countries - you claimed his reasons for attacking Ukraine were NOT because he wanted to rebuild, which is what he has done with Georgia etc. He doesn't have to take back all former land to continue that idea of "we are taking back what made us great", bits and pieces definitely do that.

It makes a lot of sense if you look at his approach to governing - being larger than life, never backing down/admitting a mistake, rewriting rules for his own convenience

Samurontai posted...

Because Russias economy isnt capable of sustaining some sort of wide ranged occupation like that. Plus they would literally need to invade NATO nations in order to accomplish that goal, and it would just lead to them having to spread their military thin to quell an untold amount of resistance

It makes absolutely zero sense lmao

Egotistical madmen do make sensible decisions, yeah, you right.

nostalgia and power

scar the 1 posted...

Russia already did this exact same thing in Georgia 14 years ago. They exploited an internal conflict between ethnic groups as a flimsy excuse to invade and completely deter NATO membership. Idk why people keep forgetting this

Yuuup. And the most they occupied of Georgia was like what. Less than a quarter of the country?

Ruvan22 posted...

If we were talking about multiple countries - you claimed his reasons for attacking Ukraine were NOT because he wanted to rebuild, which is what he has done with Georgia etc. He doesn't have to take back all former land to continue that idea of "we are taking back what made us great", bits and pieces definitely do that.

It makes a lot of sense if you look at his approach to governing - being larger than life, never backing down/admitting a mistake, rewriting rules for his own convenience

He's also using nationalism to try and build popular support domestically.

Funkydog posted...

Egotistical madmen do make sensible decisions, yeah, you right.

Are you saying egotistical madmen are incapable of making sensible decisions?

It's such a primitive way of thinking, willing to sacrifice so much just to try and "reclaim" Ukraine as part of Russia. These idiots will not outlive their ambitions so it's definitely about leaving a legacy in their name but it will be a legacy of infamy.

Samurontai posted...

Yuuup. And the most they occupied of Georgia was like what. Less than a quarter of the country?

And in the end they acknowledged two separatist regions quite similarly to how they recently acknowledged Donetsk and Luhansk.

You know, I haven't seen much analysis on this, but I wonder how much of Putin's actions are driven by Navalny being so popular. People often talk about leaders starting wars to get reelected, and given all the work Putin has had to do recently to quell political opposition some of this could be him trying to solidify his base for the future.

scar the 1 posted...

And in the end they acknowledged two separatist regions quite similarly to how they recently acknowledged Donetsk and Luhansk.

Yup, which makes sense, Russia has a huge unofficial paramilitary presence.

s0nicfan posted...

You know, I haven't seen much analysis on this, but I wonder how much of Putin's actions are driven by Navalny being so popular. People often talk about leaders starting wars to get reelected, and given all the work Putin has had to do recently to quell political opposition some of this could be him trying to solidify his base for the future.

Doubtful. The war is not very popular in Russia, lots of people have been arrested for protesters. And as Russian families are starting to lose their sons in an invasion that they might not support or understand, I don't think Putin will be more popular. And that's before all the sanctions.

scar the 1 posted...

Doubtful. The war is not very popular in Russia, lots of people have been arrested for protesters. And as Russian families are starting to lose their sons in an invasion that they might not support or understand, I don't think Putin will be more popular. And that's before all the sanctions.

Oh, sure, if that was his intent it's backfiring horribly, but I don't know if he was anticipating this level of internal pushback in the first place. It just feels like his weird overtures to the Soviet Union was meant to be some sort of patriotic rallying call that fell flat.

Actually the reason isn't even NATO.

He believes there is no state of Ukraine and it belongs to Russia to begin with.
Therefore, he doesn't see it is an invasion since he thinks he already owns it.

Samurontai posted...

Hes mad because no one likes Russia lmao

GEE I WONDER WHY

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

dude is just a power hungry tyrant who feels like he needs to flex how big his cock is...

Yeah. This is how power corrupts. You feel compelled to do things like this because otherwise, do you really have power if you can't?