Current Events > Economics professor explains how capitalism works and why it is theft

(+) Yeah! (+)

Esrac posted...

Oh yeah, Richard Wolff is the guy trying to argue that, if you want a PS5 in the worker co-op system he envisions, you would have to convince your coworkers to vote for you to be able to get one.

Idk what all he may be for, all I am sharing is what is in this video.

Do you disagree with points in this video?

WingsOfGood posted...

Do you disagree with points in this video?

Nobody wants to watch the boring musings of an anti-vaxx marxist who thinks your peers should be allowed to vote on whether or not you deserve to own a PS5.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Nobody wants to watch the boring musings of an anti-vaxx marxist who thinks your peers should be allowed to vote on whether or not you deserve to own a PS5.

Ah so admit to enjoying ignorance

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Richard David Wolff (born April 1, 1942) is an American Marxian economist

lmaoooooo

Lol. The guy is a total quack, what type of idiot would listen to him ramble on. Just another wanabe communist.

ColdOne666 posted...

Lol. The guy is a total quack, what type of idiot would listen to him ramble on. Just another wanabe communist.

So you didn't watch any of the video?

Is that asking your friends for a Ps5 example legit?

How many hours a day does he work?

WingsOfGood posted...

Ah so admit to enjoying ignorance

Why does it seem like so many people who want to push their ideologies have no idea what it means to be completely disinterested in somebody's opinion? You're not the first person here who's seemed to conclude that saying "No, I don't want to waste my time listening to some random guy talk" equates to "enjoying ignorance."

The truth is that the premise is boring and uninteresting, and it's your job as a proliferator of said ideology to make it seem interesting to others. If you fail to make it interesting, that's your fault, not your intended audience's fault.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Nobody wants to watch the boring musings of an anti-vaxx marxist who thinks your peers should be allowed to vote on whether or not you deserve to own a PS5.

Pretty much. Based on what OP is saying, I'm guessing it's just being buttmad that other people can benefit from your work.

I'd rather be able to do my easy office job, and then be able to buy stuff I couldn't make on my own. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

OP would rather go spear a gazelle on his own, then see an employer make a cent on him.

I typed this with my dick

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Why does it seem like so many people who want to push their ideologies have no idea what it means to be completely disinterested in somebody's opinion? You're not the first person here who's seemed to conclude that saying "No, I don't want to waste my time listening to some random guy talk" equates to "enjoying ignorance."

The truth is that the premise is boring and uninteresting, and it's your job as a proliferator of said ideology to make it seem interesting to others. If you fail to make it interesting, that's your fault, not your intended audience's fault.

You posted multiple times ITT, yet claim to have 0 interest....

Squall28 posted...

Pretty much. Based on what OP is saying, I'm guessing it's just being buttmad that other people can benefit from your work.

I'd rather be able to do my easy office job, and then be able to buy stuff I couldn't make on my own. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

OP would rather go spear a gazelle on his own, then see an employer make a cent on him.

Squall posts in every thread I make, yet is pretending to have 0 interest....

Let me spell it out easy for you guys to understand.

Coming into this thread and openly refusing to see what the guy says for like 1 minute of your time, but then going on a rant about why he is an idiot despite being highly honored ivy league professor who in the video clearly explains the concepts...
makes you a lover of ignorance

If you want to disagree with an opinion, you at least first must see what that opinion is, so you know what the fuck you are disagreeing with.
You don't even put in that effort but continue to constantly try and troll my threads.

weird

darkprince45 posted...

Is that asking your friends for a Ps5 example legit?

Not your friends, your coworkers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcA5szcnESY&t=5392s

Viewer Question:

"Under your system of worker cooperatives would I still get my Playstation 5?"

Wolff's Answer:

"Absolutely! You'd have to struggle a little bit for it. You'd have to talk to your fellow workers. You'd have to talk about the distribution of income. You'd have to compare your desire for playstation against all the other interests of all the other people. It wouldn't be something you worked out on your own with your particular boss in any way. It would have to be a democratic decision. You would have to come to terms with that the way you do with democratic decisions that you do now in our society to the extent that we have them."

An hour and a half of my time is a minute now? Why do 90% of anti-capitalist argue in bad faith? Smh

Esrac posted...

"Absolutely! You'd have to struggle a little bit for it. You'd have to talk to your fellow workers. You'd have to talk about the distribution of income. You'd have to compare your desire for playstation against all the other interests of all the other people. It wouldn't be something you worked out on your own with your particular boss in any way. It would have to be a democratic decision. You would have to come to terms with that the way you do with democratic decisions that you do now in our society to the extent that we have them."

Lmao. I knew this professor would be a looney.

Squall28 posted...

An hour and a half of my time is a minute now? Why do 90% of anti-capitalist argue in bad faith? Smh

My op is timestamped, you don't have to watch the whole video. But you didn't even read the op did you?

LMAO

Esrac posted...

Not your friends, your coworkers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcA5szcnESY&t=5392s

Viewer Question:

"Under your system of worker cooperatives would I still get my Playstation 5?"

Wolff's Answer:

"Absolutely! You'd have to struggle a little bit for it. You'd have to talk to your fellow workers. You'd have to talk about the distribution of income. You'd have to compare your desire for playstation against all the other interests of all the other people. It wouldn't be something you worked out on your own with your particular boss in any way. It would have to be a democratic decision. You would have to come to terms with that the way you do with democratic decisions that you do now in our society to the extent that we have them."

Wow, you people are fucking delusional I swear

darkprince45 posted...

Wow, you people are fucking delusional I swear

You believe explaining how Capitalism works and wanting coworkers to decide if you can own a PS5 are the same thing?

Im not listening a loony man lol.

500 dollars is trash. I spent that on my dogs boarding for my vacation last week. Should be nobodies business what I do with my money tbh

darkprince45 posted...

Im not listening a loony man lol.

500 dollars is trash. I spent that on my dogs boarding for my vacation last week. Should be nobodies business what I do with my money tbh

This is irrelevant to the thread. The video in the op is not about this at all.

But you not listening is kinda your thing.

Dont take my PS5 man

darkprince45 posted...

Wow, you people are fucking delusional I swear

You people?

darkprince45 posted...

Dont take my PS5 man

no one is taking your PS5

if anything we are trying to get you more PS5

Esrac posted...

You people?

the teacher

Is this the topic where we post about how little we care about engaging with the topic

hortanz posted...

Is this the topic where we post about how little we care about engaging with the topic

apparently

WingsOfGood posted...

no one is taking your PS5

if anything we are trying to get you more PS5

*If your coworkers vote that you may be allowed one.

interesting how no one tried or could counter:

Captialism as he explains is when you as the workers provide a surplus of value, the employer takes most of it and lets you have a tiny fraction back.

e also then explains why the above surplus going to someone else than the person who produced it is akin to slavery and feudalism, but it is not called slavery, it is changed form of it. No more slave or serf, but one part of the population still lives off what another person produces.
This causes a tension and resentment between those who produce more than they get and those who live off those who produce.
The interest of the capital owner is to get as much from them as they can and give back as little as possible. The producer interest is to get as much as they can from what they produce.
This makes them at odds naturally. Enemies.

Esrac posted...

*If your coworkers vote that you may be allowed one.

his system doesn't sound good, but this irrelevant.

Do you have a counter to the explanation of what Capitalism is and why it is theft?

Captialism as he explains is when you as the workers provide a surplus of value, the employer takes most of it and lets you have a tiny fraction back.

e also then explains why the above surplus going to someone else than the person who produced it is akin to slavery and feudalism, but it is not called slavery, it is changed form of it. No more slave or serf, but one part of the population still lives off what another person produces.
This causes a tension and resentment between those who produce more than they get and those who live off those who produce.
The interest of the capital owner is to get as much from them as they can and give back as little as possible. The producer interest is to get as much as they can from what they produce.
This makes them at odds naturally. Enemies.

@Esrac

WingsOfGood posted...

You posted multiple times ITT, yet claim to have 0 interest....

0 interest in what the guy has to say, but plenty of interest in talking about how meaningless his opinion is to me.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

0 interest in what the guy has to say, but plenty of interest in talking about how meaningless his opinion is to me.

Video isn't about his opinion or system to get a ps5.

It is what Capitalism is and how it works.

Do you have a counter?

richard wolff is based

Not gonna listen to that bro, sorry

JTilly posted...

Not gonna listen to that bro, sorry

why?

WingsOfGood posted...

why?

Im sure he makes many great point, but Im not a fan of know it all teachers

WingsOfGood posted...

his system doesn't sound good, but this irrelevant.

Do you have a counter to the explanation of what Capitalism is and why it is theft?

Captialism as he explains is when you as the workers provide a surplus of value, the employer takes most of it and lets you have a tiny fraction back.

e also then explains why the above surplus going to someone else than the person who produced it is akin to slavery and feudalism, but it is not called slavery, it is changed form of it. No more slave or serf, but one part of the population still lives off what another person produces.
This causes a tension and resentment between those who produce more than they get and those who live off those who produce.
The interest of the capital owner is to get as much from them as they can and give back as little as possible. The producer interest is to get as much as they can from what they produce.
This makes them at odds naturally. Enemies.

@Esrac

Nobody is paying attention to your video, because he isnt saying anything new, interesting, or worthwhile. You paraphrasing it isn't going to get much more engagement than the video itself, when its the same rhetoric communists have been recycling for ages.

WingsOfGood posted...

his system doesn't sound good, but this irrelevant.

Do you have a counter to the explanation of what Capitalism is and why it is theft?

Captialism as he explains is when you as the workers provide a surplus of value, the employer takes most of it and lets you have a tiny fraction back.

e also then explains why the above surplus going to someone else than the person who produced it is akin to slavery and feudalism, but it is not called slavery, it is changed form of it. No more slave or serf, but one part of the population still lives off what another person produces.
This causes a tension and resentment between those who produce more than they get and those who live off those who produce.
The interest of the capital owner is to get as much from them as they can and give back as little as possible. The producer interest is to get as much as they can from what they produce.
This makes them at odds naturally. Enemies.

I've already addressed this. And it's funny, I actually watched the beginning and he even starts talking about the division of labor. He doesn't seem to address that the workers themselves benefit immensely from the division and that there needs to be incentives for these division of labor opportunities to be made available in the first place. Like do you think someone is going to make a clothes making company for you to work at if they can't profit off of it? And do you think you can produce anywhere near as much clothes or have anywhere near the reach without the company? In his vision, is everything just made by community? No one can just want to do something, it's decided by your "peers"?

Based on what OP is saying, I'm guessing it's just being buttmad that other people can benefit from your work.

I'd rather be able to do my easy office job, and then be able to buy stuff I couldn't make on my own. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

OP would rather go spear a gazelle on his own, then see an employer make a cent on him.

WingsOfGood posted...

Do you have a counter?

I didn't watch the video.

Esrac posted...

Nobody is paying attention to your video, because he isnt saying anything new, interesting, or worthwhile. You paraphrasing it isn't going to get much more engagement than the video itself, when its the same rhetoric communists have been recycling for ages.

"I do not have a counter so I will just say it is a thing people been saying and that is why I entered said thread to tell the op I am stopping my ears with my fingers!"

Squall28 posted...

I've already addressed this.

This guy loves to lie.

Squall28 posted...

And it's funny, I actually watched the beginning and he even starts talking about the division of labor. He doesn't seem to address that the workers themselves benefit immensely from the division

Why would he address a fantasy? You benefit immensely from the capital owner who owns your labor giving you back a pittance? No you dont.

Squall28 posted...

Like do you think someone is going to make a clothes making company for you to work at if they can't profit off of it? And do you think you can produce anywhere near as much clothes or have anywhere near the reach without the company?

This is a tired and false capitalist argument. Yes companies will still exist even if they do not make half the profits they make today.
Alternatively, you wouldn't necessarily need such a company to exist for you to work at. You approach this through the lens of "wtf I have to go to work, where and how will I go if there isn't exploitation being allowed?" That is an ignorant take.
Even in USA, before the advent of too many chains, people were well clothed. There used to be a whole section in Walmart even where you bought material to make your own clothing and before that you could find them at smaller businesses and before that from other people.

WingsOfGood posted...

"I do not have a counter so I will just say it is a thing people been saying and that is why I entered said thread to tell the op I am stopping my ears with my fingers!"

I didn't enter the topic to tell you that. I entered to make fun of someone unironically posting Richard Wolff.

Communists don't deserve anymore of a serious response than Fundamentalist Christians do on the nature of reality.

I can't believe you let a bunch of people who admitted they didn't watch the video come in and shit up your topic TC. That's one of the best uses of the block function

Gwynevere posted...

I can't believe you let a bunch of people who admitted they didn't watch the video come in and shit up your topic TC. That's one of the best uses of the block function

Did you watch the video?

WingsOfGood posted...

Why would he address a fantasy? You benefit immensely from the capital owner who owns your labor giving you back a pittance? No you dont.

Look up economy of scale buddy

"lol google this term, I clearly know more than a respected emeritus professor at a respectable institution"

Squall28 posted...

Look up economy of scale buddy

Studies have shown that middle class is in a bad place, yet you continue believe a lie. Are you super rich or just got issues with comprehension?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-american-middle-class-is-stable-in-size-but-losing-ground-financially-to-upper-income-families/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/

The richest are consolidating all the wealth and those in middle class or poor are become worse and worse.

Yet you claim that this works and there is no reason to criticize it, there are no other options.

hmm

WingsOfGood posted...

Studies have shown that middle class is in a bad place, yet you continue believe a lie. Are you super rich or just got issues with comprehension?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-american-middle-class-is-stable-in-size-but-losing-ground-financially-to-upper-income-families/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/

The richest are consolidating all the wealth and those in middle class or poor are become worse and worse.

Yet you claim that this works and there is no reason to criticize it, there are no other options.

hmm

So you don't know what it is

Squall28 posted...

So you don't know what it is

Apparently you don't as I addressed it in the last post.

Your assertion is that the scale makes life easier and thus being exploited is ok.

Yet I linked you studies saying that infact you are wrong, things are not ok, the wealth is being hoarded not shared.
Prices also demonstrably are going up.

The wealth is shared. We have much more now than we would have without it.

I'm able to live in a nice house, eat good food, and have many things that wouldn't have been possible if it's just my solo labor.

Do you think you are able to buy a hamburger for a dollar without it? Just because the wealthy benefits more doesn't mean you don't benefit at all.

Squall28 posted...

The wealth is shared. We have much more now than we would have without it.

I'm able to live in a nice house, eat good food, and have many things that wouldn't have been possible if it's just my solo labor.

Do you think you are able to buy a hamburger for a dollar without it? Just because the wealthy benefits more doesn't mean you don't benefit at all.

You eat good food you say yet you eat dollar hamburgers..... ????

Squall28 posted...

The wealth is shared. We have much more now than we would have without it.

I'm able to live in a nice house, eat good food, and have many things that wouldn't have been possible if it's just my solo labor.

many ppl dont live sheltered upper middle class lives. but f*** them cause ur well off right?