Current Events > The U.S. just sucks tbh

(+) Yeah! (+)

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands, Finland, Canada are all better in the aspects I mentioned compared to the U.S.

Too cold and too white for me tbh.
Also lol Canada, they barely have a cultural identity aside from being compared to America
Sounds extremely unfulfilling.

Shablagoo posted...

I actually disagree with the idea that the U.S. cant be considered the worst country in the world, when you consider how much damage and suffering it has wrought and continues to bring to the world daily. Just because we living in the imperial core dont see the tremendous amounts of violence used to sustain global capitalism in our everyday lives doesnt mean it isnt happening.

Ok wumao

Background_Guy posted...

Too cold and too white for me tbh.
Also lol Canada, they barely have a cultural identity aside from being compared to America
Sounds extremely unfulfilling.

Has nothing to do with the areas in which those countries trounce the US in.

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Background_Guy posted...

Ok wumao

Classic projection. Everything anti-communists say about socialist countries is always projection, trying to deflect the imperialists problems on to socialist countries.

The U.S.A. has a government program called Operation Earnest Voice, which is an astroturfing campaign to create propaganda using internet sock puppet accounts.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice

Here is some video of the U.S. bot army:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zV4vrRjYws0

A real-world example is that 68,000 fake Twitter accounts were created to support the coup in Bolivia, and you can see what some of these bot posts look like here with bots repeating the same message in support of the anti-revolutionary protests in Cuba.

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/more-than-68000-fake-twitter-accounts-supported-coup-in-bolivia-20191118-0008.html

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K9giylKDi8E

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Solar_Crimson posted...

Has nothing to do with the areas in which those countries trounce the US in.

So? We're talking about which countries are good, not which countries meet TC's specific arbitrary standards.

Shablagoo posted...

Copypasta

Ok wumao

Background_Guy posted...

So? We're talking about which countries are good, not which countries meet TC's specific arbitrary standards.

This topic is about America and why it fails in--among other areas--the areas TC cited in the OP.

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I figure we shouldn't take this guy seriously


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Squall28 posted...

It's like when a rich kid cries because his parents bought them a normal car instead of a Ferrari.

"Most kids will be happy with any car!"
"UGH don't compare me to those poors!"

Also forgot to address this.

It's laughable that you think Americans complaining about not being able to afford necessary medical treatment or worrying about gun violence in their schools is remotely comparable to spoiled rich kids not getting the specific car they wanted. What a load of bunk.

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Background_Guy posted...

Ok wumao

I never brought up China, youre just trying to deflect. I honestly didnt peg you as someone who was willfully ignorant of the United States international crimes, but here we are I guess.

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Solar_Crimson posted...

This topic is about America and why it fails in--among other areas--the areas TC cited in the OP.

No, it's about why the US "just sucks". He TC presented his own opinion as to why it does. Everyone else is kindly pointing out
1. Even by TC's standards, the US is still better than most countries
2. There are other metrics by which to judge a country.

Personally, I like living in a country with a large diversity of cultures and I like living at a country that's constantly at the forefront of culture and technology. Every other country is constantly obsessed with the US, its culture, and its politics. So why would I live in a country that's obsessed with another country? I'd rather live in the country everyone's obsessed with. Those are my standards.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Also forgot to address this.

It's laughable that you think Americans complaining about not being able to afford necessary medical treatment or worrying about gun violence in their schools is remotely comparable to spoiled rich kids not getting the specific car they wanted. What a load of bunk.

poor wittle TC struggling so hard living in a top 20 country out of 195. Imagine all the first world problems he see everyday. so hard. so sad.

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Background_Guy posted...

1. Even by TC's standards, the US is still better than most countries

Being better than "awful" does not make you "good".

Background_Guy posted...

2. There are other metrics by which to judge a country.

Nobody cares about unquantifiable, subjective metrics.

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Oh hes leaning into the Broseph-style more people have microwaves than they did in the 1970s defense, how embarrassing.

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Squall28 posted...

poor wittle TC struggling so hard living in a top 20 country out of 195. Imagine all the first world problems he see everyday. so hard. so sad.

Oh look, it's Squall28 trying and failing to make a post with any substance.

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Background_Guy posted...

Personally, I like living in a country with a large diversity of cultures and I like living at a country that's constantly at the forefront of culture and technology.

Those are nice, but why can't the alleged "greatest nation on Earth" also be leading the way in what the OP mentioned? Diversity and technology are great, but what about affordable access to health care (where a medical emergency won't meant bankruptcy)? Or actual quality and well-funded public schools and public transportation? Or treating its workers with actual respect and giving them livable wages and more than just 10 annual days--if even that--of paid vacation time? Our ailing infrastructure and terrible internet speeds compared to other first world countries? A government that isn't just two right-wing parties actively fighting against the will of the people (one moreso than the other)?

America, for a country that's supposed to be leading the way in this world, falls short on a ton of metrics.

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Shablagoo posted...

Oh hes leaning into the Broseph-style more people have microwaves than they did in the 1970s defense, how embarrassing.

Next, he'll be telling us that a homeless man in America lives better than 19th century kings lmao

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So you guys' argument is that every non-white country is horrible and shouldn't even be counted? The other 175 countries aren't even worth being thought about?

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Next, he'll be telling us that a homeless man in America lives better than 19th century kings lmao

Mansa Musa didnt even have access to CE, what right do we have to complain about anything?

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Nobody cares about unquantifiable, subjective metrics.

Also.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

* Crappy government
* Horrible public transportation/car dependency
* One of the worst healthcare systems of any developed nation
* Treats its workers like absolute shit
* Laughable public education system
* Absurd amounts of gun violence

lol

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Lol what the f*** does that have to do with basic public infrastructure? Are you trying to argue America can't provide a better healthcare system than the one it has now because there's too many minorities?

I'm saying that you shouldn't act like these other countries aren't worth being compared to. People like my parents worked so hard to come to the US, and make sure to let me know how lucky we are to be here. When people try to teach you the same lesson, you dismiss most of the countries in the world. It's disrespectful as fuck to those other countries.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Nobody cares about unquantifiable, subjective metrics.

Yes quantifiable objective metrics like "I don't like the government" and "I don't like cars"

whitelytning posted...

Also.

lol

These are not unquantifiable. Things like access to healthcare, quality of public school systems, car dependency and gun violence can all be measured in numerous ways.

Try again, son.

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Solar_Crimson posted...

Those are nice, but why can't the alleged "greatest nation on Earth" also be leading the way in what the OP mentioned? Diversity and technology are great, but what about affordable access to health care (where a medical emergency won't meant bankruptcy)? Or actual quality and well-funded public schools and public transportation? Or treating its workers with actual respect and giving them livable wages and more than just 10 annual days--if even that--of paid vacation time? Our ailing infrastructure and terrible internet speeds compared to other first world countries? A government that isn't just two right-wing parties actively fighting against the will of the people (one moreso than the other)?

America, for a country that's supposed to be leading the way in this world, falls short on a ton of metrics.

Yes, those things could be improved. I want them to be improved. I still like the US more for the reasons I named. Also saying the US "sucks" for not being number 1 in those aspects is pretty much saying the vast majority of the world sucks. Which a lot of people have a problem with.

(Also these European countries can afford this shit because of Daddy America protecting them constantly)

Agree

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

These are not unquantifiable. Things like access to healthcare, quality of public school systems, car dependency and gun violence can all be measured in numerous ways.

Try again, son.

Car dependency is not an objectively bad thing. Its a difference of opinion.

Ill give you health care and gun violence.

Quality of public schools I dont know. I went to a great public school. There are plenty of great school systems. The inner city ones usually suck but its not like theyre all bad or even close.


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Squall28 posted...

I'm saying that you shouldn't act like these other countries aren't worth being compared to. People like my parents worked so hard to come to the US, and make sure to let me know how lucky we are to be here. When people try to teach you the same lesson, you dismiss most of the countries in the world. It's disrespectful as fuck to those other countries.

It is strange that TC apparently doesn't consider a country worth even talking about unless it's lily white. Like you point out that the US ranks higher than the vast majority of countries in the world and his response is "lol of course it ranks better than the savages, only Western and Northern Europe matter."

Make this topic about any other nation and you will be suspended

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Squall28 posted...

I'm saying that you shouldn't act like these other countries aren't worth being compared to.

It's like you've ignored everything being said in this topic (as usual).

Nobody is saying the other countries don't matter. Of course they do. What we're saying is the U.S. being better than those countries isn't the huge accomplishment you seem to think it is when the U.S. has far more wealth and resources than those other countries (and much of it is as a result of exploiting those countries).

When we compare the U.S. to countries of similar global-economic status (an actual fair comparison), the U.S. is significantly lacking in almost every category that matters. Thus, it's not unreasonable to say the United States sucks as a country given its status as a world superpower.

Nobody here has claimed their life is worse than that of a poor Brazillian. It's just a disingenuous narrative crafted to deflect away from America's problems. Problems that aren't nearly as trivial as you're trying to make them out to be.

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Background_Guy posted...

It is strange that TC apparently doesn't consider a country worth even talking about unless it's lily white. Like you point out that the US ranks higher than the vast majority of countries in the world and his response is "lol of course it ranks better than the savages, only Western and Northern Europe matter."

Actually it seems like the TC just has a basic grasp of the material history of the world which you unfortunately lack.

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MrDrMan posted...

Car dependency is not an objectively bad thing. Its a difference of opinion.

Depending on what angle you look at it from, it very well can be. It limits the opportunities available to those that can't afford a vehicle living in cities built on car dependency. It leads to congested roads. It leads to a higher frequency of fatal car accidents. Lots of taxpayer money and space is wasted to accommodate for parking lots due to all the cars on the road. And of course, there's the amount of environmental damage it causes. It's also another expense that eats into your paycheck.

The one benefit to cars is they allow you to go anywhere you want whenever you want, but this is also a benefit that can be provided through a well-implemented public transportation system or even just with proper urban planning (another category the U.S. is lacking in).

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It's not just America. The real world sucks. Existing sucks. The best happiness is when you die. That's how the real world is.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

When we compare the U.S. to countries of similar global-economic status (an actual fair comparison)

India has the 5th largest economy in the world, 2nd largest population, and a giant cultural significance that far exceeds any of the countries you like. Earlier in the thread your pals were mocking the idea of it being taken seriously at all. China is likely passing the US as the largest economy in the world, and you've not made a peep about them.

You're being extremely selective about which countries "matter". You're creating an artificial contest where the US ranks last only because the vast majority of countries that rank lower don't even count to you. And the stuff that the US excels at, you just don't care about it.

Background_Guy posted...

It is strange that TC apparently doesn't consider a country worth even talking about unless it's lily white. Like you point out that the US ranks higher than the vast majority of countries in the world and his response is "lol of course it ranks better than the savages, only Western and Northern Europe matter."

Exactly.

Nobody is saying the other countries don't matter. Of course they do. What we're saying is the U.S. being better than those countries isn't the huge accomplishment you seem to think it is when the U.S. has far more wealth and resources than those other countries (and much of it is as a result of exploiting those countries).

When we compare the U.S. to countries of similar global-economic status (an actual fair comparison), the U.S. is significantly lacking in almost every category that matters. Thus, it's not unreasonable to say the United States sucks as a country given its status as a world superpower.

Nobody here has claimed their life is worse than that of a poor Brazillian. It's just a disingenuous narrative crafted to deflect away from America's problems. Problems that aren't nearly as trivial as you're trying to make them out to be.

So a country's wealth doesn't matter in looking at individual living conditions, it's only useful as a way to see what countries you can be be compared to...really dude?

Living in wealth is better than living in poverty. Your "fair comparison" is a load of shit. Being able to live in a wealthy country is the benefit. The fact that you live in a country that is a basis of comparison for the top is a privilege. Just because you're not the richest kid in the block, doesn't mean you're not well off. You don't go into some stupid ass spiel about "well in MY ZIPCODE of rich people, an actually FAIR comparison, I'm actually not that rich. Those people way richer than me."

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Squall28 posted...

I'm saying that you shouldn't act like these other countries aren't worth being compared to. People like my parents worked so hard to come to the US, and make sure to let me know how lucky we are to be here. When people try to teach you the same lesson, you dismiss most of the countries in the world. It's disrespectful as fuck to those other countries.

Well if we're not supposed to compare apples to apples, or even the same time periods, then ya'll absolutely did not work hard and it's disrespectful to keep saying it. It was common for people born in caveman times to constantly scour for roots to suck on just to survive another day with tons of broken bones in their body. Just know how lucky ya'll were to be born in this time and stop complaining about hard work.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Depending on what angle you look at it from, it very well can be. It limits the opportunities available to those that can't afford a vehicle living in cities built on car dependency. It leads to congested roads. It leads to a higher frequency of fatal car accidents. Lots of taxpayer money and space is wasted to accommodate for parking lots due to all the cars on the road. And of course, there's the amount of environmental damage it causes. It's also another expense that eats into your paycheck.

The one benefit to cars is they allow you to go anywhere you want whenever you want, but this is also a benefit that can be provided through a well-implemented public transportation system or even just with proper urban planning (another category the U.S. is lacking in).

The taxes to build a public transportation system viable for any and everyone would eat into my paycheck as well. The money to build parking lots is a lot less than it costs to acquire vehicles, employees and infrastructure to support public transportation at that level.

Youre understating the value of the convenience of being able to jump into the car whenever you want. Its less time, its ability to transport more stuff at once, its less exposure to the weather. Youre also forgetting the fact that some people simply dont want to have to use crowded buses and trains. I really dont think a global pandemic is the best time to push everyone packing onto public transportation.


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American is great ( not from US) just their people like to fight with each other because of looks

I mean yeah, there was an attempted coup this year and wasn't it just last year that a right wing group tried to kidnap a Democrat governor

Totally normal shit for a developed country to deal with

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MrDrMan posted...

The taxes to build a public transportation system viable for any and everyone would eat into my paycheck as well. The money to build parking lots is a lot less than it costs to acquire vehicles, employees and infrastructure to support public transportation at that level.

Youre understating the value of the convenience of being able to jump into the car whenever you want. Its less time, its ability to transport more stuff at once, its less exposure to the weather. Youre also forgetting the fact that some people simply dont want to have to use crowded buses and trains. I really dont think a global pandemic is the best time to push everyone packing onto public transportation.

I mean...that's the entire problem, isn't it? America is so thoroughly optimized for automobiles and grew around the assumption that everyone* has a car, that public transportation has been so deprioritized in most places it either barely exists or is stigmatized (often the service is poor, see Amtrak, but that's often not their fault so much as the fact that they're at the mercy of freight and chronic underfunding, like everything else that isn't the military). This isn't the case everywhere, of course: some American cities have great public transit, but stuff like New York City's subway system is aging.

Basically, it's perfectly fixable, but it would be expensive and require a level of continuous investment not seen since The New Deal. Worse, in the short run, it would likely be highly disruptive(imagine NYC trying to function with half of the subway system down, for instance). It's the kind of thing Republicans would never do and that modern Democrats would tenth-ass and then try to hide from.

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Why are some people in this topic so desperate to deny that US has any problems?

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Squall28 posted...

So a country's wealth doesn't matter in looking at individual living conditions,

Not when a large portion of the wealth is being generated by the country's Top 1% and that wealth isn't being used to meaningfully improve quality of life, no.

Squall28 posted...

it's only useful as a way to see what countries you can be be compared to...

The whole fucking point is to illustrate a discrepancy between what other wealthy nations use their wealth for (improving public services for their citizens) vs what the U.S. uses its wealth for (bailing out billionaires and funding wars in foreign nations). How does this continuously whoosh over your head?

Squall28 posted...

Just because you're not the richest kid in the block, doesn't mean you're not well off.

We're not talking about not being the richest kid on the block. We're talking about people choosing not to go to the hospital for serious illnesses to avoid medical debt. A lack of any real investment into mental health leading to rampant gun violence in our schools. An underfunding of public schools leading to people resorting to crime in the absence of opportunity, leading to them being thrown into a prison system that cares more about punishing them and exploiting them for labor rather than rehabilitating them. A lack of any real social safety net in the event of economic crisis, something that played a large factor in why 800,000+ Americans are now dead from COVID-19.

Stop trying to fucking trivialize the argument. It's incredibly disingenuous.

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

I mean...that's the entire problem, isn't it? America is so thoroughly optimized for automobiles and grew around the assumption that everyone* has a car, that public transportation has been so deprioritized in most places it either barely exists or is stigmatized (often the service is poor, see Amtrak, but that's often not their fault so much as the fact that they're at the mercy of freight and chronic underfunding, like everything else that isn't the military). This isn't the case everywhere, of course: some American cities have great public transit, but stuff like New York City's subway system is aging.

Basically, it's perfectly fixable, but it would be expensive and require a level of continuous investment not seen since The New Deal. Worse, in the short run, it would likely be highly disruptive(imagine NYC trying to function with half of the subway system down, for instance). It's the kind of thing Republicans would never do and that modern Democrats would tenth-ass and then try to hide from.

ElatedVenusaur posted...

I mean...that's the entire problem, isn't it? America is so thoroughly optimized for automobiles and grew around the assumption that everyone* has a car, that public transportation has been so deprioritized in most places it either barely exists or is stigmatized (often the service is poor, see Amtrak, but that's often not their fault so much as the fact that they're at the mercy of freight and chronic underfunding, like everything else that isn't the military). This isn't the case everywhere, of course: some American cities have great public transit, but stuff like New York City's subway system is aging.

Basically, it's perfectly fixable, but it would be expensive and require a level of continuous investment not seen since The New Deal. Worse, in the short run, it would likely be highly disruptive(imagine NYC trying to function with half of the subway system down, for instance). It's the kind of thing Republicans would never do and that modern Democrats would tenth-ass and then try to hide from.

Expensive and it wouldnt be beneficial to the people in rural areas that will still require a vehicle.

Id imagine thats why it wasnt implemented in the first place. Really how many of these countries with great public transportation have anywhere near the surface area of the United States?

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MrDrMan posted...
Expensive and it wouldnt be beneficial to the people in rural areas that will still require a vehicle.

Id imagine thats why it wasnt implemented in the first place. Really how many of these countries with great public transportation have anywhere near the surface area of the United States?

You act like rural China is full of bus stops and bullet trains. All you're doing is making excuses for why we can't help people.
Like, would it be unfair to fund expansion of broadband internet in rural areas because urban areas wouldn't benefit (by which I mean, actually build it and not just give money to ISPs to do it that will never be used to do that)? Not every project is going to benefit everyone, but American cities could be made so much more livable for all and emit so much less carbon.


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MrDrMan posted...

Expensive and it wouldnt be beneficial to the people in rural areas that will still require a vehicle.

Id imagine thats why it wasnt implemented in the first place. Really how many of these countries with great public transportation have anywhere near the surface area of the United States?

The U.S. actually used to have a great public transport system. A big reason for why we don't anymore is a combination of cars becoming more popular and the subsequent lobbying from the automobile industry.

The end result is that we are literally building towns and cities to be car dependent.

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

You act like rural China is full of bus stops and bullet trains. All you're doing is making excuses for why we can't help people.
Like, would it be unfair to fund expansion of broadband internet in rural areas because urban areas wouldn't benefit (by which I mean, actually build it and not just give money to ISPs to do it that will never be used to do that)? Not every project is going to benefit everyone, but American cities could be made so much more livable for all and emit so much less carbon.

Its not making excuses its actually living in the real world.

You admit it would be expensive and inconvenient in the short run yet you think people in rural communities and people that have cars already would support it? These are the people whos tax dollars would have to pay for it.

Im all for expanding public transportation but if you present it in a way where it isnt beneficial to the people paying for it(which you are)then youre wasting your time.


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MrDrMan posted...

Its not making excuses its actually living in the real world.

You admit it would be expensive and inconvenient in the short run yet you think people in rural communities and people that have cars already would support it? These are the people whos tax dollars would have to pay for it.

Im all for expanding public transportation but if you present it in a way where it isnt beneficial to the people paying for it(which you are)then youre wasting your time.

It would actually be net beneficial, whether you require a car and not (and really, the requirement to have a car in rural communities is only because we've built these cities to be car dependent in the first place).

If less people are required to drive from point A to B, then that means less traffic for the people who do drive. And with proper urban planning, we could also get rid of the weird ass stroads that are all over America that fail at both being streets for pedestrians and fail at being roads for drivers.

I live in Houston, a city where everybody is required to drive and it's resulted in constant car accidents, awful traffic and areas that are not only ugly to look at, but dangerous to walk in.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It's like you've ignored everything being said in this topic (as usual).

Nobody is saying the other countries don't matter. Of course they do. What we're saying is the U.S. being better than those countries isn't the huge accomplishment you seem to think it is when the U.S. has far more wealth and resources than those other countries (and much of it is as a result of exploiting those countries).

When we compare the U.S. to countries of similar global-economic status (an actual fair comparison), the U.S. is significantly lacking in almost every category that matters. Thus, it's not unreasonable to say the United States sucks as a country given its status as a world superpower.

So according to TC, the US can only ever be compared to countries with similarly large economies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
The US is of course number 1 (at the moment)

Here are the countries that are similar to US in terms of economic power, according to TC. We are allowed to directly compare the US to these countries.

9. Canada
17. Netherlands
23. Sweden
31. Norway
37. Denmark

Here are the countries that can never ever be compared to the US, because they're just too poor. They barely have economies. These countries don't matter.

2. China
5. India
11. Russia
13. Brazil
15. Mexico
16. Indonesia
19. Saudi Arabia

Background_Guy posted...
So according to TC, the US can only ever be compared to countries with similarly large economies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
The US is of course number 1 (at the moment)

Here are the countries that are similar to US in terms of economic power, according to TC. We are allowed to directly compare the US to these countries.

Here are the countries that can never ever be compared to the US, because they're just too poor. They barely have economies. These countries don't matter.

I don't think you're making the point you think you're making. Are you saying the United States is more comparable to developing nations in various stages of development, some of which are autocratic, authoritarian states(China, Russia, Saudi Arabia) others of which are unhealthy representative democracies(basically the rest)? That's the level the wealthiest nation in the world should aspire to? Also China's infrastructure is actually really well-developed and they just continue expanding it, rather than coasting on what they built decades ago. Crazy, right?

Because I would agree that that's the underlying problem, yes. The U.S. political system has more in common with a country like India or Russia than with a country like the Nordic social democracies or even countries like Germany or South Korea.

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

I don't think you're making the point you think you're making. Are you saying the United States is more comparable to developing nations in various stages of development, some of which are autocratic, authoritarian states(China, Russia, Saudi Arabia) others of which are unhealthy representative democracies(basically the rest)? That's the level the wealthiest nation in the world should aspire to? Also China's infrastructure is actually really well-developed and they just continue expanding it, rather than coasting on what they built decades ago. Crazy, right?

Because I would agree that that's the underlying problem, yes. The U.S. political system has more in common with a country like India or Russia than with a country like the Nordic social democracies or even countries like Germany or South Korea.

Exactly what I was gonna say

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