Current Events > Wheel of Time reviews are starting to come in.

(+) Yeah! (+)

No one is responding to what I said. I could be wrong about this since I only read the books once as they came out, but the possibility of the Dragon being female goes against the fundamentals of how the world works. The Dragon is a specific soul, which is gender specific. It's known that he's male.

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uwnim posted...

I'm bothered because it feels like it is definitely not going to happen and everyone will have the same major roles they had in the books even if the minor details are different so pretending that it was ever a possibility feels wrong.

Why though? It's just a way to have the audience guessing, nothing more. I don't get how that can trigger a negative emotional response, especially if they ultimately aren't going to change who he is.

And there's also the possibility that Morraine is lying. They have still kept in the idea of the power corrupting men, as opposed to women.

lolife67 posted...

But since we know it's not going to end up being a woman, does it really change anything?

Well yes, because it makes Moraine look a lot more ignorant than she is. It's common fucking knowledge about the breaking of the world. Moraine of all people should know that it must be a man.

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lolife67 posted...

And there's also the possibility that Morraine is lying. They have still kept in the idea of the power corrupting men, as opposed to women.

She can't lie.

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3PiesAndAFork posted...

Well yes, because it makes Moraine look a lot more ignorant than she is. It's common f***ing knowledge about the breaking of the world. Moraine of all people should know that it must be a man.

How does she look more ignorant when that's not true in this continuity?

3PiesAndAFork posted...

She can't lie.

I don't recall the saying that, but ok.

Ilishe posted...

You're joking?

The Dragon Reborn is always male. The current iteration is Rand al'Thor. This series has tons of powerful women characters what are they even doing if they gender swap the main character

They arent. They are going all in with the reincarnation aspect. Rand is still the Dragon. She just knows there are 4 Taveren in Two Rivers, 1 is the Dragon, and they arent all male.

3PiesAndAFork posted...

Well yes, because it makes Moraine look a lot more ignorant than she is. It's common fucking knowledge about the breaking of the world. Moraine of all people should know that it must be a man.

You're taking a throwaway line way too seriously here. It's just something to add mystery for people who don't know the story.

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uwnim posted...

Watched the first episode.

I don't like them giving Perin a wife just to have him kill her in the first episode. Like I totally knew she'd have to die for later things to work, but that just felt super pointless.
Them pretending the Dragon Reborn could possibly be a woman is annoying because it isn't something that will happen, so it just comes across as very fake on behalf of the show writers. At the end of the first episode, they reduced the candidates down to Rand, Mat, Perrin and Egwene. Nynaeve would have been the only one who could possibly have been rewritten into the Dragon Reborn, but she was eliminated from the pool of potential Dragon Reborns.

Probably because unlike the other 4, she wasnt born in the correct year.

lolife67 posted...

And there's also the possibility that Morraine is lying. They have still kept in the idea of the power corrupting men, as opposed to women.

Moraine literally cant lie.

MC_BatCommander posted...

You're taking a throwaway line way too seriously here. It's just something to add mystery for people who don't know the story.

Exactly.

MC_BatCommander posted...

You're taking a throwaway line way too seriously here. It's just something to add mystery for people who don't know the story.

Yeah, but could they have not made her look ignorant while doing so? Maybe have someone else say it?

daynlokki posted...

They arent. They are going all in with the reincarnation aspect. Rand is still the Dragon. She just knows there are 4 Taveren in Two Rivers, 1 is the Dragon, and they arent all male.

It's a huge plot point, in the show too, that Saidin is tainted (as shown in the first scene with Logain), and that the madness from the dragon caused the breaking.

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EndOfDiscOne posted...

No one is responding to what I said. I could be wrong about this since I only read the books once as they came out, but the possibility of the Dragon being female goes against the fundamentals of how the world works. The Dragon is a specific soul, which is gender specific. It's known that he's male.

but the world can still work that way here. there's no reason that the characters have to know souls are specifically gendered. that's super easy to work around. the harder part is why, in the books, everyone knows the Dragon is reborn as a male -- the Karaethon Cycle prophecy has to be different in this version. That's, potentially, a much bigger issue to solve later on.

as for why they believe a woman could be the Dragon Reborn... clearly they believe she would be able to do the things necessary by her own choices. I don't think that's really all that inconceivable, either.

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3PiesAndAFork posted...

Yeah, but could they have not made her look ignorant while doing so? Maybe have someone else say it?

It's a huge plot point, in the show too, that Saidin is tainted (as shown in the first scene with Logain), and that the madness from the dragon caused the breaking.

True, but nowhere in the lore of WoT does it say you can only reincarnate as the sex you were in a previous life.

daynlokki posted...

Moraine literally cant lie.

She can't say words that are untrue which isn't the same as cannot lie. She can lie, just have to be crafty about it.
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daynlokki posted...

True, but nowhere in the lore of WoT does it say you can only reincarnate as the sex you were in a previous life.

No, but the big part of the dragon is he channel's Saidin no?

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<a onclick="return show_quoted_message(400, 79762571, 960273977, '116f2827');" href="/boards/400-current-events/79762571/960273977">voldothegr8 posted... </a>

She can't say words that are untrue which isn't the same as cannot lie. She can lie, just have to be crafty about it.

You should read up on the vows they take with the One Power. They can omit, but every word they say must be true. Just might not be the truth you are expecting.

Their vow is to speak no word that is not true.

3PiesAndAFork posted...

No, but the big part of the dragon is he channel's Saidin no?

He DID in the last turning. But thats just confirmation bias. Maybe the turning before he didnt as the Dark One didnt taint Saidin until that last turning.

So far my biggest concern is tone. Just feels darker than the series was at this point.

There are some changes but nothing too bad. With one exception: Giving Perrin a wife and then just fridging her almost immediately. Like I just don't see how that completely unnecessary change is supposed to pay off in a meaningful way. It just makes Perrin more of a boring Eeyore than he already is.


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Compsognathus posted...

So far my biggest concern is tone. Just feels darker than the series was at this point.

There are some changes but nothing too bad. With one exception: Giving Perrin a wife and then just fridging her almost immediately. Like I just don't see how that completely unnecessary change is supposed to pay off in a meaningful way. It just makes Perrin more of a boring Eeyore than he already is.

It was originally supposed to be much darker but Jordan toned it down after his wife brought it up. They wanted it to be geared towards young adults for sales purposes.

Compsognathus posted...

So far my biggest concern is tone. Just feels darker than the series was at this point.

There are some changes but nothing too bad. With one exception: Giving Perrin a wife and then just fridging her almost immediately. Like I just don't see how that completely unnecessary change is supposed to pay off in a meaningful way. It just makes Perrin more of a boring Eeyore than he already is.

For your spoiler bit, I think they did that to give him more of a character in the early bits. All of Perrin's interesting character was internal conflict, so they had to bring it forward. I also read regarding that his wife may have been a dark friend and was about to kill him, but his taveren nature kicked in and she got killed instead, also maybe hinted by the wolf eating her in his dream . That said, the wolves just seem thrown in for him, like an afterthought "oh wait we need to do something with the wolves".

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Ill wait until the season is out to watch it

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Compsognathus posted...

There are some changes but nothing too bad. With one exception: Giving Perrin a wife and then just fridging her almost immediately. Like I just don't see how that completely unnecessary change is supposed to pay off in a meaningful way. It just makes Perrin more of a boring Eeyore than he already is.

I can see why they did it. his inner conflict isn't easy to show in this medium. but it'll be pretty awkward in the not too distant future. i hope they figured out how they're going to write themselves out of it before they did it.

also, is it time to make a properly spoiler tagged topic? I'd have done so already, but i don't want my block list to get in the way.

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They could have just not have had Perrin. That would have helped compress at lot of story while basically losing nothing.

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Funkydog posted...

But given we know Rand is the Dragon Reborn, and male, it ultimately doesn't matter that much. It just means the Dark One was banking on the Dragon Reborn reincarnating as male (or assumed they were always male incorrectly and just got lucky this time) so it doesn't really change anything.

Yes, it's a silly thing to add and they probably shouldn't have, but it doesn't actually detract in the end.

Sure. Which is why I really haven't quibbled about it, Just elaborating to those who haven't read why people are bitching about it.

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I've skimmed through a lot of these messages.

I am okay with the changes for the most part so far. I get that a lot of them were made to keep who the Dragon Reborn is a mystery. I really do think it's supposed to be a throwaway line just to add to the mystery.

The whole Perrin is already married thing.... I'm fine with it. It adds some backstory to the characters. I though the first three episodes were pretty dry and not all that exciting but they need to build up the characters some. This doesn't bug me too much.

The first three episodes are fine. Nothing groundbreaking or anything but it's only three episodes of a book series that had like 15,000 pages. It's going to be kind of dull for a few episodes.

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3PiesAndAFork posted...

For your spoiler bit, I think they did that to give him more of a character in the early bits. All of Perrin's interesting character was internal conflict, so they had to bring it forward. I also read regarding that his wife may have been a dark friend and was about to kill him, but his taveren nature kicked in and she got killed instead, also maybe hinted by the wolf eating her in his dream . That said, the wolves just seem thrown in for him, like an afterthought "oh wait we need to do something with the wolves".

Wolves become a much bigger part.

I watched the episodes and as a book fan, I really enjoyed them! I dont mind any of the changes so far and can see the meaning in some of them. It was also fun watching with my husband who never read the books. Hes trying to figure out who the Dragon Reborn is and its fun to see him guessing. Im really looking forward to the rest of the season. Right now its a lot of build up but knowing what the books have in store, I really believe this could be something great.

Medussa posted...

I can see why they did it. his inner conflict isn't easy to show in this medium. but it'll be pretty awkward in the not too distant future. i hope they figured out how they're going to write themselves out of it before they did it.

also, is it time to make a properly spoiler tagged topic? I'd have done so already, but i don't want my block list to get in the way.

Also, yes someone do this. Or I guess I could.

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Guys, there is also a WoT board as well.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/1542-wheel-of-time-general-discussion

daynlokki posted...

Wolves become a much bigger part.

Yeah, I know. My point is that in the show it seems shoehorned in rather than a big part of his character. Hell, they didn't even introduce Elyas.


WrkHrdPlayHrdr posted...

Regarding his wife - I'm only up to book 7 but I wonder if it's just extra context to the whole Axe versus Hammer thing that Perrin goes through. It gives him another reason to not like the axe. (It was the axe he used in the show right?)

I'm guessing because they wrote out Master Luhan

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3PiesAndAFork posted...

Yeah, I know. My point is that in the show it seems shoehorned in rather than a big part of his character. Hell, they didn't even introduce Elyas.

I'm guessing because they wrote out Master Luhan

Hes in episode 4. (The first one)

I figured Perrin had a wife that he killed to give an obvious meaning to the axe vs hammer conflict he has through the majority of the series. That being said, I also am enjoying it so far. Costumes are some of the best fantasy garb I've ever seen. I'm surprised the Aes Sedai/Children of the Light outfits translated so well, I was sure they'd be corny but it actually works.

I wonder how they'll adapt the story when everyone is split up for an enormous length of time. Would it be smarter to focus on a single character or do constant cuts? Maybe episode by episode?

Either way, looking forward to more.

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