Current Events > Would you be open to dating a trans person?

(+) Yeah! (+)

What was it called again where you forced people to have sex with you via threat or duress?

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

At this point it's just a semantic argument and you're not going to gain any ground on the issue.

It's not mere semantics to differentiate being straight from not liking fat chicks, or someone. We need to stop implying that orientation is indistinguishable from dating preferences. That's like saying someone with a gluten allergy prefers to not eat bread. Someone without the allergy who chooses to not eat bread is not the same. They're making a choice and it's possible there is some bread that they could enjoy in the future.

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MutantJohn posted...

What was it called again where you forced people to have sex with you via threat or duress?

It would be fucked up if someone was forcing people to have sex. Good thing not a single person in this topic has supported rape.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

We need to stop implying that orientation is indistinguishable from dating preferences.

We can also stop implying that an individual's orientation can't include a distinction between cis and trans women, while we're at it.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

We can also stop implying that an individual's orientation can't include a distinction between cis and trans women, while we're at it.

That's not orientation. Preferring cis women is like preferring short women. You like women and have a type, but a preference is not a hard limit and implies you can date a woman who may not check all your boxes. You don't have to date anyone

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

That's not orientation. Preferring cis women is like preferring short women. You like women and have a type, but a preference is not a hard limit and implies you can date a woman who may not check all your boxes. You don't have to date anyone

I don't particularly understand how you can say it's not homophobic to not want to date a person of the same sex, but it's transphobic not to want to date a trans person. If biological sex is not a turnoff for someone, that's a perfectly acceptable personal preference that should never be shamed, but it's not a preference a lot of people are going to hold. Acknowledging that a trans woman is a woman does not magically make the aspect of her biological sex just disappear.

_HayleyWilliams posted...

That's not orientation.

I disagree with you on this fundamental point.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

Preference can absolutely be bigoted depending on the reasoning. Being straight and not dating gay people is never homophobic. That was my problem with the comparison. Having a type of woman you prefer to date is different than your orientation.

Preference can be. But it doesnt mean it is. Someones preference can be. I trans because their transphobic. But that doesnt mean every person who doesnt date trans is transphobic. That means is can be. But not that it always is. Someone can also just not date trans because its their preference. Like I said, one reason could be wanting biological children Which wouldnt be transphobic if they also dumped infertile cis women, as well The problem is thinking the only reason for not dating a trans person is transphobia And I never said they were the same. You orientation is that. Who you choose or prefer to date doesnt always match your orientation

_HayleyWilliams posted...

And again, a preference has never implied a hard limit.

For you and some people. Thats not the same for everybody. Some people have preferences that they wont change. You need to understand that people are all different. Just because your preferences can be overlooked doesnt mean other people feel the same. Thats what you have to understand
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Im more attracted to transgender females than cisgender females tbqh

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LinkPizza posted...

For you and some people. Thats not the same for everybody. Some people have preferences that they wont change. You need to understand that people are all different. Just because your preferences can be overlooked doesnt mean other people feel the same. Thats what you have to understand

Then they need to stop using the wrong word for it. They have dating requirements, not preferences. And I never said it is always transphobic.

Nemu posted...

I don't particularly understand how you can say it's not homophobic to not want to date a person of the same sex, but it's transphobic not to want to date a trans person. If biological sex is not a turnoff for someone, that's a perfectly acceptable personal preference that should never be shamed, but it's not a preference a lot of people are going to hold. Acknowledging that a trans woman is a woman does not magically make the aspect of her biological sex just disappear.

Because they're still women and that's just not everyone's type of woman. Men aren't generally attracted to a trans woman becuase they were born with XY chromosomes. They are attracted to them because they present as women and those interested men were born with an attraction to women. You can't see chromosomes and generally don't see genitals or know their surgical history when you look at another person.

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

Then they need to stop using the wrong word for it. They have dating requirements, not preferences.

Thats the right word. Its just a hard preference for them. Nothing wrong with that

_HayleyWilliams posted...

And I never said it is always transphobic.

And if feel like you are. Since you keep telling people that not dating trans people is transphobic
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I just feel it's shitty to imply that straight or gay people that are attracted to a trans person are a different orientation than those who prefer or will only date cis people. Seems offensive to everyone involved.

LinkPizza posted...

Thats the right word. Its just a hard preference for them. Nothing wrong with that

This means I shouldn't have gotten my new job since I only met the requirements and not the preferences, which are also requirements. Maybe they should make it clear on future job postings whether a preference is a requirement or not since apparently the words mean different things to different people.

LinkPizza posted...

And if feel like you are. Since you keep telling people that not dating trans people is transphobic

Only if they do it for transphobic reasons like "I'm not gay". Like if someone refused to date black women because of crime rates. I'm not saying to strap someone down and force them to have sex with people they hate. Calling a spade a spade.

There seems to be a confusion between criticizing something someone does and forcing them to do something else. If someone pisses you off and you yell at them, does that mean you want to force them to change their ways and become your friend?

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_HayleyWilliams posted...

I just feel it's shitty to imply that straight or gay people that are attracted to a trans person are a different orientation than those who prefer or will only date cis people. Seems offensive to everyone involved.

The thing is, it might eventually be. The only reason it's not yet is probably because trans is still a more recent thing. The first surgery taking place within the last 100 year, I believe. Though out surgeries today are probably better, safer, and work out surprisingly well... But it could eventually change to having a sexual orientation. Especially since some people like trans people more than cis people in some cases. I can't say it will 100% happen, but I could see it...

_HayleyWilliams posted...

This means I shouldn't have gotten my new job since I only met the requirements and not the preferences, which are also requirements. Maybe they should make it clear on future job postings whether a preference is a requirement or not since apparently the words mean different things to different people.

Actually, it's possible. Sometimes, people meet all the requires, and they choose on preference. Or maybe they choose based or requirements instead this time. Or maybe the other people also didn't the preference. Or maybe they were soft preferences instead of hard ones (Because like I said earlier "Some people have preferences that they wont change." *keyword bolded*). Either way, this analogy is dumb, and you know it... And maybe they should make it known, then... Again, we're talking about dating, and not an interview... People like to compare the two, but I've never had a date that was like an interview. Interviews are tense and I don't like them. Dates are more fun, and easier to get use to. I'm glad when an interview is over. The opposite is true of a date... Idk why people like to compare the two so much when they are that different., from the questions asked, to how you feel during them, to how they are in general...

_HayleyWilliams posted...

Only if they do it for transphobic reasons like "I'm not gay". Like if someone refused to date black women because of crime rates. I'm not saying to strap someone down and force them to have sex with people they hate. Calling a spade a spade.

There seems to be a confusion between criticizing something someone does and forcing them to do something else. If someone pisses you off and you yell at them, does that mean you want to force them to change their ways and become your friend?

But I don't think many people are saying the "I'm not gay" line. At least, as of late since I joined in. Maybe a couple have, but most were just saying they wouldn't for whatever reasons. Maybe that's the disconnect. We're seeing different people, I guess... Most of the people I see (That are saying no, because a bunch said it was fine to a degree) in-between the main people talking aren't even giving a reason, as far as I can tell... Let alone saying it's gay. But I think I've only seen from where I started posting. And maybe the page before and the first page, though I would have to check on that... Some people have said post-op or no penis (for trans women), but that makes sense as genital preference can be pretty key to having sex for some people... So, no. It just seems like you calling them all transphobic. Especially since the main people talking have given reasons other than saying, "It's gay." Some you saying you calling a spade a spade, but it's more like you're calling a club a spade...

As for being pissed off, that depends on the person. Some just want to them to be their friend, and some want them to fuck off... Because people are different... And not only that, but people have seen twitter... Where Twitter says stuff worse that this to almost try to force people to date trans people. Because while CE is toxic, Twitter is worse... But criticizing someone for who they choose to date is pretty shitty... Who they choose to date, and who makes them happy is their own choice... Why get mad if they wouldn't be as happy with a trans person? They aren't the right person for them. Everybody should be happy, and find the right person for them...
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MutantJohn posted...

What was it called again where you forced people to have sex with you via threat or duress?

You are so transparently disingenuous

No one is forcing anyone to fuck/love anyone else. Just asking those who are vehemently opposed to dating trans people to think critically about why they feel the way they do

This has been explained so many times that if you don't get it at this point, you're either horribly ignorant or a liar

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https://i.imgur.com/SpmD9RH.gif

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Gwynevere posted...

Just asking those who are vehemently opposed to dating trans people to think critically about why they feel the way they do

I don't think anybody in this topic is 'forcing' anything on anybody. I also don't think it's fair or reasonable to ask somebody to "think critically" about why their sexual orientation is what it is. Who are you to ask? Why do you even care? It's none of your business whatsoever who I am attracted to.

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Asking me to think critically is like asking me why I ate a whole ass pizza by myself last night. I don't fucking know mate.

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Pretty sure they are repulsed by me

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

I don't think anybody in this topic is 'forcing' anything on anybody. I also don't think it's fair or reasonable to ask somebody to "think critically" about why their sexual orientation is what it is. Who are you to ask? Why do you even care? It's none of your business whatsoever who I am attracted to.

If you don't want to, fine. No one is going to waste their time asking you specifically to think critically. But you cast a wide net, and a few people really will sit down and think about it. Then they'll ask the same of other people, of which a few more will take it to heart. Before you know it, we've enacted societal change on the perception of trans people.

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Gwynevere posted...

But you cast a wide net, and a few people really will sit down and think about it. Then they'll ask the same of other people, of which a few more will take it to heart.

Your assumption here is that the majority of people are refusing to date trans people for reasons that are wrong or bigoted, and not just because of their sexual orientation. So you either think that the majority of people who won't date trans people are bigoted or hateful, or you think that asking someone to 'think critically' has a chance of completely changing how their brain works regarding physical attraction.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Your assumption here is that the majority of people are refusing to date trans people for reasons that are wrong or bigoted, and not just because of their sexual orientation. So you either think that the majority of people who won't date trans people are bigoted or hateful, or you think that asking someone to 'think critically' has a chance of completely changing how their brain works regarding physical attraction.

If you're a man that refuses to date a fully transitioned trans woman (or vice versa), that has nothing to do with your sexual orientation and everything to do with your perception of the legitimacy of trans women as real women, which is influenced by society

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Gwynevere posted...

If you're a man that refuses to date a fully transitioned trans woman, that has nothing to do with your sexual orientation and everything to do with your perception of the legitimacy of trans women as real women, which is influenced by society

I disagree with this point. It's not just a perception thing. It's not like I have to consciously tell myself not to be attracted; I am quite naturally not attracted to a person once I learn that they are a trans woman. It's not because of hatred. It's not because of bigotry. It's not because of 'perception.'

It's just how I feel. It's my sense of physical attraction telling me "no, I am not attracted to this person." I can't tell myself to be attracted to someone I'm not attracted to. It just doesn't work that way.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

I disagree with this point. It's not just a perception thing. It's not like I have to consciously tell myself not to be attracted; I am quite naturally not attracted to a person once I learn that they are a trans woman. It's not because of hatred. It's not because of bigotry. It's not because of 'perception.'

That's precisely the point though; it's rarely if ever a conscious choice. We make subconscious choices and judgements every second of every day based on how we were raised and what we expose ourselves to. Absolutely nothing exists in a vacuum, including your perception of trans people and the subsequent judgements that come with it.

Especially if it's the case where you only feel that way after you learn they're trans. If that's the case, it's got nothing to do with biology.

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Gwynevere posted...

Absolutely nothing exists in a vacuum, including your perception of trans people and the subsequent judgements that come with it.

So what you're trying to tell me is that my sexual orientation and my sense of attraction are actually the way they are because of 'society' and not because of my natural sense of people and attractiveness?

And that my sexual orientation is caused by nurture, not nature? That my sexual orientation can (and should) be changed?

Where have I heard this argument before?

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"Think critically about your sexuality"

"No, not like that!"

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Not interested. Nothing wrong with wanting to though.

Mods, can you seriously moderate people who gaslight/try to force others to question their sexuality and sexual preferences and falsely be called phobic or bigots if they don't, as harassment or trolling?

And please close this dumpster fire of a topic if TC doesn't. The toxic vitriol won't stop.

@Error1355
@DarkBuster22904

@ZannoL Please, close this shit dude

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For people who "can't explain their sexual orientation" they seem pretty darn confident about their orientation's exact particulars.

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CyricZ posted...

For people who "can't explain their sexual orientation" they seem pretty darn confident about their orientation's exact particulars.

I can explain exactly how it feels. I can't explain exactly why my body and mind work how they do, but I know exactly how I feel when it comes to every aspect of my sexuality.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

I can explain exactly how it feels

I'm not asking how it feels. I'm asking if you know every last facet of what you're attracted to; what gets you going.

Glasses? Big boobs? Horns? Blue skin?

I wonder how many lifetimes one would have to live to experience all there is out there.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I can't explain exactly why my body and mind work how they do

Yeah, but you seem really confident about what does it.

I'm just saying you might just be not in full knowledge of everything you're into.

Like we literally have a meme for "I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me."

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CyricZ posted...

Like we literally have a meme for "I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me."

That's not really relevant in this situation. It's not like I've never had exposure to trans women before. I've seen them. I know how my body and mind respond to them.

I'm not attracted to them.

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CyricZ posted...

I wonder how many lifetimes one would have to live to experience all there is out there.

You dont need to experience everything. Experiencing what you like is good enough for most people. They know what they like, and go for it

CyricZ posted...

I'm just saying you might just be not in full knowledge of everything you're into.

Or he might be. Stop trying to tell people they need to try new things. He knows what he likes, and thats fine. Why does it matter if he doesnt want to try something different

CyricZ posted...

Like we literally have a meme for "I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me."

Or he just doesnt care to try it. The whole point is that not everyone has to try everything. Not everyone cares about it. People know what they like, and they go for that. It doesnt matter if something else could be good
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Honestly it's less of a "try it maybe you'll like it" and more of a "what is it honestly that makes you so supremely confident in this knowledge of yourself".

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It's not like I've never had exposure to trans women before. I've seen them. I know how my body and mind respond to them.

All of them?

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I might like sushi or sashimi if I try it but I still am not putting it down my throat. I wouldn't say that makes me supremely confident but I don't even like cooked seafood. I might try takoyaki though because they make it look like an orgasm in your mouth but probably I'll choke on the balls and die.

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insert Austin powers meme

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Big_Nabendu posted...

insert Austin powers meme

I don't get it.

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How can I close this topic if people keep posting in it?

ZannoL posted...

How can I close this topic if people keep posting in it?

That's the neat part, you don't.

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ZannoL posted...

How can I close this topic if people keep posting in it?

You can close it when people don't respond for 10 minutes.

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ZannoL posted...

How can I close this topic if people keep posting in it?

To 500!

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Does this board really have almost 500 active users or are people spamming alts?

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CyricZ posted...

Honestly it's less of a "try it maybe you'll like it" and more of a "what is it honestly that makes you so supremely confident in this knowledge of yourself".

People know themselves and whats feels good. So they usually know what they like and want in life, relationships, sex So let them do what they like Whole you guys say youre not trying to make people do something, it sure feels that way
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Arcanine2009 posted...

You can close it when people don't respond for 10 minutes.

I think its 5

FL81 posted...

To 500!

I mean, we are pretty close

SailorThomasina posted...

Does this board really have almost 500 active users or are people spamming alts?

You dont need 500 active users. Just 500 posts
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LinkPizza posted...

People know themselves and whats feels good. So they usually know what they like and want in life, relationships, sex So let them do what they like Whole you guys say youre not trying to make people do something, it sure feels that way

But the point I was making earlier is that some people seem to think they know everything about what they like, but when asked why they like what they like, there's a defensive "it's just what I like I don't have to explain it".

Like, how could you think you're so perfectly knowledgeable about the "what", and yet feel that not knowing the "why" is completely irrelevant to the discussion?

LinkPizza posted...

You dont need 500 active users. Just 500 posts

He's talking about the poll responses.

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What was post 429?

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You know, for about 1/3 of the total poll to be saying yes, I am shocked.

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CyricZ posted...

But the point I was making earlier is that some people seem to think they know everything about what they like, but when asked why they like what they like, there's a defensive "it's just what I like I don't have to explain it".

Like, how could you think you're so perfectly knowledgeable about the "what", and yet feel that not knowing the "why" is completely irrelevant to the discussion?

The main problem with this discussion is that you generally seem to come off as extremely preachy on the subject. It's possible to have a discussion of "maybe your personal biases/religious views/familial influences/ect are informing your sexuality in a way contrary to your actual feelings" like in the cases of repressed gay people, but it, at least to me, comes off as if you'd expect a person to neutrally view trans people as possible partners when that's really not ever going to be a thing.

CyricZ posted...

But the point I was making earlier is that some people seem to think they know everything about what they like, but when asked why they like what they like, there's a defensive "it's just what I like I don't have to explain it".

Like, how could you think you're so perfectly knowledgeable about the "what", and yet feel that not knowing the "why" is completely irrelevant to the discussion?

But they dont have to explain it Thats the point. Some people just know what they like And why isnt important

I dont know why I like males instead of females. But thats not important. The important thing is that I know what and who I like

CyricZ posted...

He's talking about the poll responses.

I didnt realize the numbers had gotten that high
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Nemu posted...

The main problem with this discussion is that you generally seem to come off as extremely preachy on the subject. It's possible to have a discussion of "maybe your personal biases/religious views/familial influences/ect are informing your sexuality in a way contrary to your actual feelings" like in the cases of repressed gay people, but it, at least to me, comes off as if you'd expect a person to neutrally view trans people as possible partners when that's really not ever going to be a thing.

I'll note I haven't called a single person "transphobic" in this entire topic. I respect people have their defenses up because this can be such a personal topic, but I'm trying to at least get people to think beyond their own self-imposed limits.

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I'm not going to eat the fish raw Cyric. I don't even like it grilled.

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