Current Events > U.S. and allies have dropped 46 bombs per day on people for past 20 years

(+) Yeah! (+)

The United States and its allies have dropped more than 326,000 bombs and missiles on people in other countries since 2001.

https://progressive.org/dispatches/trump-biden-bombing-wars-benjamin-davies-210305/

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Shut the fuck up

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How are these past 20 years Bidens fault? Cut to the chase.


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Does it talk about which strikes are justified or why, or just the number of bombs because its more important to keep the conversation at just the number of bombs?

because after all, tankies love preventing conversations from getting nuanced

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pure_temper posted...

Does it talk about which strikes are justified or why, or just the number of bombs because its more important to keep the conversation at just the number of bombs?

because after all, tankies love preventing conversations from getting nuanced

Gottem'

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@Shablagoo lets speak truth man. Are you in the CCPs payroll? If not, whats your story? This korok wants to understand your extreme US hatred and even more extreme China love

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Okay.

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Don't fuck with us

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TC should just be banned already. He is never going to be interested in anything except his CCP shilling stick

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SPE posted...

@Shablagoo lets speak truth man. Are you in the CCPs payroll? If not, whats your story? This korok wants to understand your extreme US hatred and even more extreme China love

He's mad because his rich family won't give him money

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Watch the neolibs come and defend how much of those were justified

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David1988 posted...

Watch the neolibs come and defend how much of those were justified

or the tankies will make threads about the # of bombs and then vanish because the propaganda is the point, not nuance or truth

time to wakey wakey

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SPE posted...

Shablagoo lets speak truth man. Are you in the CCPs payroll? If not, whats your story? This korok wants to understand your extreme US hatred and even more extreme China love

The only thing sadder than being on the CCP's payroll is not being on the payroll, but still saying the same kinds of things anyway
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Yeah, but America has all the allies. Who wouldn't want to be an ally of America? America is like the high school quarterback that won the state championship a few years back. All the other countries that hate us are just angry incels. Yeah sure, a few years have past since high school and it is kind of weird that we still wear the jacket, but we won state championship!

Yikes @ post #16

Im gonna start demanding some apologies from ppl who said there are no tankies here.

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Conflict posted...

Who said that? Averagejoel is a pretty well known one and he's been here forever

to be entirely fair it was back when I was overly generous with my labeling and included some ppl who are just actually good reasonable Marxists (i apologized to those ppl already)

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Its weird that deflection to China is so prevalent ITT. The U.S. militarys bombing of people can be recognized without relinquishing your criticisms of Chinas government.

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TC is a tankie and genocide denier and I am no fan of his. I am sure this topic is in bad faith, but it is still true that talking about China here is whataboutism, no better than what tankies do. US foreign policy is extremely imperialistic and has resulted in many needless civilian deaths. As an example the US bombed Vietnam more than any enemy in all of World War II, and yet not only did the North Vietnamese end up winning, they're now a US ally, meaning it was a completely meaningless war. The US also funded the Islamic insurgents to fight off Soviet Imperialism in Afghanistan only to then engage in a 20 year long war with many of the same people they funded to fight the Soviets.

You can both think the Chinese government is bad and does terrible things while also acknowledging the terrible things the US government is doing.

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Shablagoo posted...

Its weird that deflection to China is so prevalent ITT. The U.S. militarys bombing of people can be recognized without relinquishing your criticisms of Chinas government.

it could but the elephant in the room is that you made the topic

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Shablagoos downfall here is like a car crash you cant stop watching. I somewhat liked the guy tho

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ssjevot posted...

TC is a tankie and genocide denier and I am no fan of his. I am sure this topic is in bad faith, but it is still true that talking about China here is whataboutism, no better than what tankies do. US foreign policy is extremely imperialistic and has resulted in many needless civilian deaths. As an example the US bombed Vietnam more than any enemy in all of World War II, and yet not only die the North Vietnamese end up winning, they're now a US ally. US funded the Islamic insurgents to fight off Soviet Imperialism in Afghanistan only to then engage in a 20 year long war with many of the same people they funded to fight the Soviets.

You can both think the Chinese government is bad and does terrible things while also acknowledging the terrible things the US government is doing.

i mean i just today read an article about Afghanistan and how some pundits are worried about what will happen if the US leaves and militants rise up again to give the state there some trouble again

how am I supposed to know if thats imperialist propaganda or if it literally just is a very poor and complicated region of the world where insurgencies DO happen because ppl just want power and to exploit others as warlords? That used to happen everywhere.

when I ask tankies on leftist twitter I NEVER get quality sources or good explanations. It literally could be true that what happens abroad is not even our fault and America does contribute to real sustained peace. Pax Americana could be true. How would you tell?

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pure_temper posted...

i mean i just today read an article about Afghanistan and how some pundits are worried about what will happen if the US leaves and militants rise up again to give the state there some trouble again

how am I supposed to know if thats imperialist propaganda or if it literally just is a very poor and complicated region of the world where insurgencies DO happen because ppl just want power and to exploit others as warlords? That used to happen everywhere.

when I ask tankies on leftist twitter I NEVER get quality sources or good explanations. It literally could be true that what happens abroad is not even our fault and America does contribute to real sustained peace. Pax Americana could be true. How would you tell?

Why is it the job of the US to police Afghanistan? They aren't wanted there and them staying isn't some humanitarian mission. The US didn't invade for humanitarian reasons and doesn't engage in a humanitarian foreign policy. Obama was happy to bomb Lybia and leave it to warlords to fight it out. They have open air slave auctions in parts of Lybia now, where is the humanitarianism there? The US backs Saudi Arabia in their proxy war with Iran in Yemen which includes bombing civillians with US made munitions. Where is the humanitarianism there? The US backs terrorist groups in Syria to oppose the Russian backed government. Where is the humanitarianism there?

You can say, but Iran, Russia, etc. bad! And yes they are, but that doesn't mean the US showing up and supporting every opposing side or just bombing the shit out of things makes things better.

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Ah yes, the government that keeps it own citizens of the middle and working class fighting amongst each other so meaningful progress never gets made is also going to deliver peace to the world through its endless bombing campaigns

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ssjevot posted...

Why is it the job of the US to police Afghanistan? They aren't wanted there and them staying isn't some humanitarian mission. The US didn't invade for humanitarian reasons and doesn't engage in a humanitarian foreign policy. Obama was happy to bomb Lybia and leave it to warlords to fight it out. They have open air slave auctions in parts of Lybia now, where is the humanitarianism there? The US backs Saudi Arabia in their proxy war with Iran in Yemen which includes bombing civillians with US made munitions. Where is the humanitarianism there? The US backs terrorist groups in Syria to oppose the Russian backed government. Where is the humanitarianism there?

You can say, but Iran, Russia, etc. bad! And yes they are, but that doesn't mean the US showing up and supporting every opposing side or just bombing the shit out of things makes things better.

This

You can call china, russia, north korea and iran bad.

But america and it alliance bomb more foreigners countries since 2001.

American and it alliance are hypocrite.
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My understanding is that it truly all stems from follow-up regional wars post WW2 all the way through the Red Scare which is sort of understandable in context if we realize that they may have just been freaked out by seeing tankies / fascists co-opting the Marxian approach (which wasnt all that inconsistent with what FDR and others had already been talking about all the way up to JFK))

then sprinkle in 9/11 and insurgencies that truly always just want to be warlords so they can exploit people...cluster fuck of complication and variables that are all relevant

i mean if America wanted to be an imperial power for real, we couldve already owned the entire world since the end of WW2.

what sources or books do you recommend on the subjects here?

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ssjevot posted...

TC is a tankie and genocide denier and I am no fan of his. I am sure this topic is in bad faith, but it is still true that talking about China here is whataboutism, no better than what tankies do. US foreign policy is extremely imperialistic and has resulted in many needless civilian deaths. As an example the US bombed Vietnam more than any enemy in all of World War II, and yet not only did the North Vietnamese end up winning, they're now a US ally, meaning it was a completely meaningless war. The US also funded the Islamic insurgents to fight off Soviet Imperialism in Afghanistan only to then engage in a 20 year long war with many of the same people they funded to fight the Soviets.

You can both think the Chinese government is bad and does terrible things while also acknowledging the terrible things the US government is doing.

Also this spot on.
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ssjevot posted...

The US didn't invade for humanitarian reasons and doesn't engage in a humanitarian foreign policy.

Neolibs will obviously say different, but their justification for endless bombing campaigns in the name of humanitarianism should be made apparent for the bullshit it is after the thousandth bombing run.

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@Aki_Sora you can stop acting as if you arent TCs alt or buddy in general lmao, its apparent in all the topics you post

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David1988 posted...

Neolibs will obviously say different, but their justification for endless bombing campaigns in the name of humanitarianism should be made apparent for the bullshit it is after the thousandth bombing run.

who are the targets? Are any of them justifiable targets? What role does 9/11 play in our attempts to find the bad guys over there? What role do regional warlords still have in those parts of the world? What would happen with them if there were no American troops around? Do you think America actually cares about oil this much? Is that what its really about?

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pure_temper posted...

what sources or books do you recommend on the subjects here?

Chomsky has quite a few books delving deep into American foreign policy:

Year 501: The conquest continues
Imperial Ambitions
Hegemony or Survival: Americas Quest for Global Dominance

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David1988 posted...

Chomsky has quite a few books delving deep into American foreign policy:

Year 501: The conquest continues
Imperial Ambitions
Hegemony or Survival: Americas Quest for Global Dominance

hmmm never read those. Alright Ill check them out. Hopefully they answer my questions tho

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pure_temper posted...

i mean if America wanted to be an imperial power for real, we couldve already owned the entire world since the end of WW2.

The US does. It primarily does it through soft power because it is a way more effective way of maintaining an emptied than the failed policy of old. This is also why China can't find an ally outside of other dictatorships that oppose America. It tries to show up and tell other countries what to do directly instead of letting the economic deals work their magic in the background. This leads countries to want to be in the US sphere over China, because they at a minimum get the illusion of running their country how they want, even if the end result is US companies setting up shop and permanent US military bases. There was an independence movement in Okinawa following WWII, allowed to operate freely, because clamping down would have only made Okinawa harder to maintain, the single most important American outpost in the modern world. However the problem solved itself when Chinese government officials started claiming Okinawa used to be part of China. The support for the independence movement died. Why? Because when forced to pick between imperial powers they want the one that gives them the freedom of illusion with protests and voting over the one that tolerates no descent spoken, or otherwise.

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https://youtu.be/XvmLrN8h6nc
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ssjevot posted...

The US does. It primarily does it through soft power because it is a way more effective way of maintaining an empire than the failed policy of old. This is also why China can't find an ally outside of other dictatorships that oppose America. It tries to show up and tell other countries what to do directly instead of letting the economic deals work their magic in the background. This leads countries to want to be in the US sphere over China, because they at a minimum get the illusion of running their country how they want, even if the end result is US companies setting up shop and permanent US military bases. There was an independence movement in Okinawa following WWII, allowed to operate freely, because clamping down would have only made Okinawa harder to maintain, the single most important American outpost in the modern world. However the problem solved itself when Chinese government officials started claiming Okinawa used to be part of China. The support for the independence movement died. Why? Because when forced to pick between imperial powers they want the one that gives them the freedom of illusion with protests and voting over the one that tolerates no descent spoken, or otherwise.

i think the bigger reason that died down is when the Japanese realized that America as an ally is the only reason China hasnt just taken Japan already

some of it is probably bad blood because of the Rape of Nanking during WW2 which Japan still doesnt formally acknowledge last I checked...

rather than because of soft power or w/e.

any books or sources on any of this stuff? That youd recommend. Chomsky like the other guy or other stuff too?

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pure_temper posted...

i think the bigger reason that died down is when the Japanese realized that America as an ally is the only reason China hasnt just taken Japan already

some of it is probably bad blood because of the Rape of Nanking during WW2 which Japan still doesnt formally acknowledge last I checked...

rather than because of soft power or w/e.

any books or sources on any of this stuff? That youd recommend. Chomsky like the other guy or other stuff too?

Chomsky has some good stuff even if he isn't always right and tends to go too extreme from time to time. But absolutely soft power is a major factor and you can read a lot of books about it. Things related to Pax Americana should talk about it extensively. But the Wikipedia articles on soft power and Pax Americana will provide a nice intro as well.

You are confusing Japan with Okinawa. Okinawa was its own country and still has local languages and culture (you can see signs and listen to broadcasts in Okinawan there). Okinawans were forced into the Japanese army and many died during the battle of Okinawa. A lot of animosity is toward the Japanese government not just America. The American bases take up a major portion of the island and the rest of Japan hosts relatively little bases despite being much larger. Anti-base sentiment is still strong but the actual independence movement basically died after this happened in 2013:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/15/china-okinawa-dispute-japan-ryukyu

Okinawans don't want US bases there, but they would much rather get the bases relocated and remain part of Japan than ever risk being annexed by China. Especially after what happened with Hong Kong and the constant threats against Taiwan. China is learning the hard way that hard power imperialism doesn't work anymore.

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https://youtu.be/kWkoeOHhZB0
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darkprince45 posted...

Shablagoos downfall here is like a car crash you cant stop watching. I somewhat liked the guy tho

yeah what an odd change. Maybe his account got hacked or something?

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bump

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Shablagoo posted...

bump

so @Shablagoo youre not gonna tell us?

are you in the CCP payroll now? Maybe you got abducted there?

going full tankie out of nowhere is really odd

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It doesnt really concern me if a cop or an 85 karma alt with 400 posts believes I had some sort of downfall, sorry. Feel free to stay on topic, though.

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Shablagoo posted...

It doesnt really concern me if a cop or an 85 karma alt with 400 posts believes I had some sort of downfall, sorry. Feel free to stay on topic, though.

I just asked you a question man. One you dont want to reply to.

I will stop asking if it bothers you, you just needed to say so.

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Alright, fair enough, but no Im not on some payroll lol. Listen to what even my biggest critic, ssjevot, has to say and stay on topic. Ive always abhorred Americas brutal foreign policy, and me criticizing it here is not some endorsement of any other country.

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Shablagoo posted...

Alright, fair enough, but no Im not on some payroll lol. Listen to what even my biggest critic, ssjevot, has to say and stay on topic. Ive always abhorred Americas brutal foreign policy, and me criticizing it here is not some endorsement of any other country.

Nah, bro you endorse China and you aren't fooling anyone here. I dislike the US and Chinese governments, your entire thought process is literally "US bad so any country that doesn't like US good". I wish it wasn't, I really do. But sadly that's the case.

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The supreme arrogance of telling someone you know their thought process better than they do.

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Shablagoo posted...

The supreme arrogance of telling someone you know their thought process better than they do.

Nah, I just read what you post. If your thought process had more depth to it that would be great. Maybe you could display it by critiquing cultural genocide in China.

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ssjevot posted...

Chomsky has some good stuff even if he isn't always right and tends to go too extreme from time to time. But absolutely soft power is a major factor and you can read a lot of books about it. Things related to Pax Americana should talk about it extensively. But the Wikipedia articles on soft power and Pax Americana will provide a nice intro as well.

I will deep dive into Chomsky and all the above and get back to CE with commentary after I do!

ssjevot posted...

You are confusing Japan with Okinawa. Okinawa was its own country and still has local languages and culture (you can see signs and listen to broadcasts in Okinawan there). Okinawans were forced into the Japanese army and many died during the battle of Okinawa. A lot of animosity is toward the Japanese government not just America. The American bases take up a major portion of the island and the rest of Japan hosts relatively little bases despite being much larger. Anti-base sentiment is still strong but the actual independence movement basically died after this happened in 2013:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/15/china-okinawa-dispute-japan-ryukyu

Okinawans don't want US bases there, but they would much rather get the bases relocated and remain part of Japan than ever risk being annexed by China. Especially after what happened with Hong Kong and the constant threats against Taiwan. China is learning the hard way that hard power imperialism doesn't work anymore.

Hmmmm I think I would disagree with this assessment. Okinawa would have only ever been considered a vassal of the mainland by the mainland, with most of its heritage being closely tied to that of Japan's for a long time. As far as I can tell even before WW2 almost 100 years ago at this point. They were "returned" to Japan after WW2 because America had to go to war against the Japanese portion of the Axis powers, but I'm not sure I ever remember reading that Okinawa was China's. Although it'd certainly make sense for the mainland to want to convey this as the understanding the way they would Taiwan or etc.

You're right about hard power though. Even if China ever had 2x the volume of ships America does, or 3x or 4x, it makes no real difference anymore because any amount of real war over land will just turn into nukes flying lol. It may really be time for both countries to have a Come To Jesus moment in which everyone thinks about what kind of society they'd like their children and grandchildren to live in, because at this rate the two world superpowers seem to want world domination rather than coexistence and unity lol.

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