Board 8 > Think im gonna do a doom playthrough/ranking topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

E3M6 - Mt Erebus

Level 4/5
Difficulty 3.5/5

This level is a fucking blast. I also don't hate fireblue. No matter what way you go, it's actually a constant battle of giant monsters and a mad scramble for weapons and ammo, with lots of awesome ambushes, and what's probably the world's first rocket jump to get to the secret, though I just did strafe running to reach it.

E3M9 - Warrens

Level 4/5
Difficulty 2/5

Easy for a final secret level, but goddamn is it fun and satisfying. Remaking the first level of the episode was just brilliant, and while the easy invinicibility spheres keep the ambushes from being too hard, it's still a fucking awesome level, and the final fight that pits you against three cacos in short range followed by dozens of shotgunners followed by four barons is just fucking satisfying.

E3M7 - Gate to Limbo

Level 0.5/5
Difficulty 0.5/5

What absolute hot garbage. 47 monsters in a giant sprawling maze map with tons of dead ends, hurt floors, out of the way rad suits, and an annoying as fuck teleport puzzle that does nothing to actually guide the player? This is the worst level in Doom, fuck it.

E3M8 - Dis

Level 1/5
Difficulty 1/5

If you infight there's no challenge. Mad dash to get ammo, park yourself with the baron and spiderdemon between you, then when he starts infighting lay into him. Disappointing end.

:D I also always cheat the Erebus secret exit, but I do it by hitting the switch through the wall. I always go through the rest of the level first though, since it's such a good one.

Warrens rules.

Limbo, I've also long thought was the worst level in doom e1/e2/e3, but I was recently realized something kinda interesting about it--it's a big puzzle level, and yet, no matter how many times I've played it, I still don't have the solution memorized. I still have to stumble my way through it, after all these years. So, that's kinda cool.

The idea of it is a neat concept, I'm glad they tried it.

Still terrible though, still probably a bottom 3 level.

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To randomly rank the final episode: 6 > 5 > 9 > 3 > 4 > 7 > 2 > 8 > 1

Visually Gate to Limbo is a really cool level, possibly my favorite in the whole game visually, and the general impression I get from that design makes me forgive some of the awfulness of forcing you to solve a puzzle across a damaging floor. At least more than I should. If you learn the puzzle it isn't too bad, but it's totally fair to judge it on a blind/unfamiliar run.

Totally agreed on Erebus. Just an all around great level and there seems to be solid consensus on its greatness.

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Esuriat posted...

To randomly rank the final episode: 6 > 5 > 9 > 3 > 4 > 7 > 2 > 8 > 1

Visually Gate to Limbo is a really cool level, possibly my favorite in the whole game visually, and the general impression I get from that design makes me forgive some of the awfulness of forcing you to solve a puzzle across a damaging floor. At least more than I should. If you learn the puzzle it isn't too bad, but it's totally fair to judge it on a blind/unfamiliar run.

Totally agreed on Erebus. Just an all around great level and there seems to be solid consensus on its greatness.

I kinda feel like remaking Gate to Limbo to get it to be good.

• Move the rad suits closer to the center of the area, add more of them, and make the fights that much more intense.
• Make it clear what switch does what. Do it with colored lanterns.
• Make the maze have more of a point. As is, it's incredibly underwhelming and 90% of the areas are just pointless.

Yeah, reimagining the map sounds like it could be fun. I've seen a few projects float around for remaking or reimagining the id maps in general but I never did play any of them. Maybe I should circle back on that.

I know I've played a few maps inspired by Limbo that were done extremely well, but I don't remember which megawads they were from at this point. Most of my Doom playing was from like 2010-2014. I think Limbo can also be blamed for the lineage of level design that created two very infamous ones: Eternal Doom's MAP12: Darkdome and Epic 2's MAP28: Ogdoad.

Both are insanely sprawling key hunts that took me over an hour to complete when I did them blind. I enjoyed them both, but I'm obviously pretty tolerant of that kind of thing.

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On to Doom 2! I will get to Thy Flesh Consumed and Sigil eventually.

Map 1 - Entryway

Level 3/5
Difficulty 1/5

Fun map, fast, very basic. What I'd expect for Doom 2.

Map 2 - Underhalls

Level 4.5/5
Difficulty 1/5

I love underhalls. It's easy, but it's fast and everything just melts. Great way to introduce the only new gun of the game.

Map 3 - The Gantlet

Level 3/5
Difficulty 1/5

Game is still being pretty simple. That whole setup where you first see a chaingunner with lots of zombies infighting is cool, even if others do it better.

Map 4 - The Focus

Level 2.5/5
Difficulty 1/5

Never very memorable, the only real ambush is pretty obvious and the setpieces are just ok.

Map 5 - The Waste Tunnels

Map 2/5
Difficulty 1/5

Quality slides a bit at this point but picks up soon. I could only even find two of the secrets in this level, and one I only know because a youtuber pointed out how random it is and now I have a plasma gun. Yay. Got 100 kills and didn't find the last secret, so gave up on it.

I should think really hard, and figure out exactly why I hate every level in Doom 2 so much (besides like, a couple of 'em). I truly want to throw up just thinking about maps 3/4/5/6

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I basically agree so far, except to bump up 05 a little. The plasma gun secret definitely sets the tone for some of the later bizarre secrets the game has in store.

On the whole I like Doom II quite a bit more than the original. The new enemies make it more fun (even the pain elemental imo), the maps in general are more open and feel more fast-paced in large part to the SSG. Also greater BFG opportunities and more rocket use. Music is the only thing I may like a little better about the original.

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Yeah, the I haven't played doom 2 since I was a kid, and I'm playing on a much higher difficulty since then. I did a partial playthroigh on a lower difficulty with brutal doom, but ill see how my opinions of some levels have changed. I used to love barrels of fun lol

Barrels o' Fun is definitely one of the best. Lives up to its name and has a really satisfying infighting opportunity.

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Map 6 - The Crusher

Map 3.5/5
Difficulty 1.5/5

Still very easy, but I do love this map. Goes quickly from setpiece to setpiece with several memorable areas, including one of the best teleport ambushes so far in classic doom.

Map 7 - Dead Simple

Map 4/5
Difficulty 2/5

Fantastic and classic. Often imitated, rarely improved.

Map 8 - Tricks and Traps

Map 4.5/5
Difficulty 1.5/5

Going from memory, if you asked me what my favorite map from Doom 2 was, it'd be this. Super slaughtery, with several great fights and ambushes, tons of well hidden secrets, and just general fun and creativity.

Map 9 - The Pit

Map 3/5
Difficulty 3/5

Going from pistol start, this is where I started to lose interest in Doom before, so from this point on I'm starting normal. The first part of this level is fun if you don't pistol start, absolutely grueling when you do because you have to do it in a specific order or the pain elementals just start to get nasty. Second half is much worse than the first.

Map 10 - Refueling Base

Level 4/5
Difficulty 2.5/5

I'm giving a lot of 4s, and I'm sure compared to what other people have made these levels aren't that great, but goddamn if some aren't just plain fun. Refueling Base is hectic throughout. Very ammo tight because of fucking Pain Elementals. I don't hate facing Lost Souls, especially with the SSG. But Pain Elementals are super tanky already and have to be a priority target because they can make a level straight up unbeatable if left alone. But the level doesn't do the worst with them, and has quite a few very memorable fights, including I believe the first Cyberdemon of Doom 2. Oh, and SO MANY SECRETS.

And for something different, lets do a review of a custom levelset.

Valiant Map 1 - Bad Reception

Level 4/5
Difficulty 3.5/5

Level killed me multiple times and that's for a first level, but then I'm bad at Doom. Bad Reception is awesome though. Huge map, bigger than anything in Doom 2 by a wide margin, but filled with constant combat. Introduces three of the changes to classic doom the mapset has. Imps now shoot fireballs that are way faster, two at a time. Pinkys move the same but take much less time to attack you, so bad maneuvering is much more punishing. But the game wants you to have fun, and you're never understocked for things, and it's generous with health. Also, the music kicks ass, I've played a couple levels in this one and adored it.

And one more

UAC Ultra Map 1 - Dig

Level 4/5
Difficulty 2/5

Goddamn the atmosphere in this one is insane. A more epic soundtrack for navigating this base, with the monsters coming out faster and faster. All a fair challenge, but it is a challenge and never gets boring.

Last one for tonight, think I'll start working through them

Ancient Aliens Map 1 - The Ancient Navajo Wolf Warp

Level 5/5
Difficulty 3/5

I know this map set is supposed to be really well know, and even knowing about the level this blew me away. You start by smoking a pipe that takes you into a dream through this awesome warp sequence that I would love to know how he did in basic Doom, and you land running, guided by a line of armor to a berserk, only to turn around and see a field full of imps, pinkies, and one cyberdemon on a raised platform, that you can telefrag after getting the blue key. Even without the Cyberdemon, this would've been a cool opening stage, but that was just incredibly fun.

Bump for interest

Map 11 - Circle of Death

Level 2.5/5
Difficulty 1.5/5

Deal with the pain elementals quick and you're fine. Cool level, but not nearly threatening enough. A modern level would replace the chaingunner with an archvile in the center lol

Map 12 - The Factory

Level 1/5
Difficulty 1/5

Long, monotonous, too easy on standard play but would be super frustrating on pistol start. Some downright rude enemy placement, including some very mean traps that put you at point blank of shotgunner and manacubus ambushes.

RadiantJoyrock posted...

A modern level would replace the chaingunner with an archvile in the center lol

Nah, the chaingunner would stay but the archvile would be embedded below to continually resurrect the chaingunner until you cross a linedef that would make the platform rise to finally reveal the archvile.

Also I really like 'O' of Destruction/Circle of Death for some reason even though the challenge is basically over after the opening fight to clear out the central room. I can't put my finger on exactly why except that it's the archvile's first appearance. The ambush on the raised platform leading to the exit is nice, too.

Sometimes I like The Factory. It depends on my mood.

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And I never did get around to playing Ancient Aliens or Valiant but I'll get there eventually.

UAC Ultra though I got through a while back and absolutely love it. Hope you enjoy the rest of it.

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Esuriat posted...

And I never did get around to playing Ancient Aliens or Valiant but I'll get there eventually.

UAC Ultra though I got through a while back and absolutely love it. Hope you enjoy the rest of it.

I'm sure I will! I've actually seen a lot of stuff from Ancient Aliens and Valiant, enough to know I'll get my ass kicked by them later, but haven't seen anything from UAC Ultra.

Map 13 - Downtown

Level 1/5
Difficulty 3.5/5

What an awful level. Tons of backtracking through the same really awful paths that you have to do multiple times and an outside fight that is annoying more than it is challenging. I like the idea of exploration, but it was far too heavy on everything happening from one gimmick area with a stupid arrow guiding it.

Map 14 - The Inmost Dens

Level 2/5
Difficulty 2/5

I know a lot of people love this level, I really don't. Lots of rude hitscanners and redundant platforming, though thankfully not as bad as Downtown. The key setup feels kinda weird too; the red key is right by some red bars but you have to backtrack to the beginning of the level with more red bars to open a door to turn a red switch blue to lower the red bars? It's not hard, it's just weird.

I looooove Map14, one of the four levels in doom 2 that I like (and map07 and two others yet to come). It's got that cool castles/bridges architectural style that provides good gameplay.

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Map 15 - Industrial Zone

Level 4/5
Difficulty 2.5/5

Love this level a LOT more. The hitscanner placement is less annoying, and it's pretty constant action with a ton of secrets. Little bit of annoying backtracking in areas, but that's about the only issue I have with it.

Map 31 - Wolfenstein

Level 1/5
Difficulty 1/5

I don't like Wolfenstein and I don't like this, tbqh.

Map 32 - Grosse

Level 2/5
Difficulty 0.5/5

You get so much ammo and so many guns this wouldn't be a challenge even through pistol start, but now the enemies are much more bunched and the level is just short and sweet.

Map 16 - Suburbs

Level 4.5/5
Difficulty 3/5

This level is just so much fun. Small, with a few distinct areas, easy to navigate, and some of the best ambushes in Doom 2.

I love the hell out of Suburbs, definitely in my top 3 for Doom II. That fight/ambush after grabbing the blue key on the tower is so fun and the variety of weird, corrupted buildings makes a lasting impression.

The secret in Industrial Zone where you take a flying leap from the building to land on the platform with the switch is my favorite secret in the game, and fittingly enables access to the secret exit. Sadly both secret levels are kind of underwhelming gimmick maps. I like the joke that Nazis are in league with Hell, though!

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UAC Ultra Map 2 - UAC in Exile

Level 3.5/5
Difficulty 3/5

Game is still playing in the small scale, but the fights are often cramped and very memorable. Well hidden secrets too, I only found a couple. I would say it's too heavy on the switch hunting, but it tends to feel organic and I never struggled to figure out where to go. The archvile fight where it teleports him back to the beginning where he has a half dozen hitscanners to revive over and over is brutal, and I was on pretty low health already.

Valiant Map 2 - No Rush

Level 4.5/5
Difficulty 2.5/5

Nice little stream of hitscanners and super imps to mow through, but nothing major for the most part. Super imps are nasty, and can cause a lot of damage if you're not on your tows. An absolutely brutal ambush opens up in some underwater tunnels, but it's ok because in there you get the game's other custom weapon, the super chaingun, which has roughly four times the rate of fire of the regular and mows through absolutely anything it wants to. So, so incredibly fun.

Ancient Aliens Map 2 - Sanctum of the Wastes

Level 4/5
Difficulty 3/5

Yeah this map pack is probably gonna kick my ass earlier, but it's so fucking good. Lots and lots of verticality and absolutely beautiful detail, and while none of the ambushes are particularly surprising, they're all rough enough that you worry before hitting each switch. Best encounter is easily the last revenant fight that teleports one behind you as soon as it appears.

Ancient Aliens Map 3 - Arachnatron Arrival

Level 5/5
Difficulty 3/5

"Run, hide, or die, the arachnatrons never stop"

This level was fun, creative, and unique all at once. It's basically a large level over a pit where you're unlocking paths and raising platforms, nothing you haven't seen before, except for the arachnatrons on podiums in the center. You are not equipped to kill them. They will shred you. So you are constantly moving because they have vision over nearly all the map. You also finally get a super shotgun and get to show some skeleton fucks what's what for once. Finally, after a nasty ambush where you're locked in a small room with four shotgunners and two manacubus, you unlock a teleporter that lets you telefrag each arachnatron in sequence.

Valiant Map 3 - Tiers of Pain

Level 3.5/5
Difficulty 3/5

Lots and lots of ambushes, but lots of health. Not a lot super memorable here, but it's incredibly fun all the same. Finally got the super shotgun!

UAC Ultra Map 3 - Sifting Adjunct

Level 3.5/5
Difficulty 3.5/5

OK this one is getting up there in difficulty. It's constant and brutal. Tons and tons of creative fights that you're never overloaded for. Take the final fight. You see the exit and walk up stairs to it, only to have them collapse and a closet with tons of imps, pinkies, and a hell knight open on either side of you. Take them out, and up on the platform above you is released a baron of hell and some specters that you have to take out before the stairs rise up again and they're able to get down at you. Finally, you go up the stairs and four revenants scream in your face. The level is full of fights like that, and I absolutely love it.

Map 17 - Tenements

Level 2/5
Difficulty 1/5

This level is....odd. In parts, it's really clever, like the archvile in a cage fight, or the elevator with the secret between the bottom and the top. Other times, it's just frustrating, like all the forced damage over poison surfaces to find weirdly hidden switches and teleports, or just confusing, like the very obvious teleport that takes you to the podium in the center to get a megasphere, only for another better hidden teleporter to do the same thing, or that weird ass ending of ever opening hallways that end in incorrectly textured stops and provide absolutely nothing other than padding the time to go through it?

Map 18 - The Courtyard

Level 3/5
Difficulty 1/5

Man, playing this after playing custom doom maps, this is really bad. The design of the level is awesome, honestly, one of my favorite looks in the game so far. And what's not to love, a giant courtyard with 174 monsters? Awesome! Too bad most of it is optional, easy, and/or stupidly designed. Like, the yellow key is just thrown in a random corner of the courtyard - not easy to see, but I spent so much time looking for it, sure that one of the cool optional areas, but instead it's just hidden in a random corner and I only found it by accident. Then the blue key is just...thrown in a bunch of blue orbs. Not even in the center, just off to the side. And hidden switches off to the side. And an opening door you have to shoot to open instead of use. And a random poison pit in the intro that has nothing to do with anything and you die if you go in it because there's no escape. Probably would be a lot better from a pistol start, enough so that I might actually look into it. Would definitely make the powerups seem more valuable.

I'd actually love to remake the level, because it could make for a cool slaughter map with very few changes. I like the gimmick of blocking off the player's path after challenges, but make them more memorable, more fair, and more challenging, and put the keys or maybe switches at the end of different rooms, and you have to do each one or something.

Map 19 - The Citadel

Level 1/5
Difficulty 1/5

What a boring, bland level. I like the idea, a giant castle that you find teleports into and secret passages through and a bunch of different fights. But the layout is weird, the secrets are stupid, you don't have to get all three keys to finish it, and the strongest enemey I remember fighting in it is a single cacodemon. I swear if it didn't have a super shotgun I'd say this was a rejected Doom level.

Map 20 - Gotcha

Level 1/5
Difficulty 1/5

Again, super easy. There are no challenging fights, and it's dull and not memorable.

The Citadel has two arachnotrons, one directly in front of you at the start and another in the central courtyard on the platform with the red skull key. Otherwise it would be totally compatible with the original Doom so you could just replace them with barons of hell or whatever. Also replace the SSG with a plasma rifle. I like that only one of the keys is mandatory to exit, and overall layout is neat. But it's an odd level for sure. I actually love speedrunning it.

The Courtyard is another favorite of mine. I like waking up almost everything at once and creating a massive infight in the center while I just run around dodging for a while and punching the air.

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