Current Events > New Trump admin rule could cost waiters $700 million

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CADE FOSTER posted...

dont wait staff work for tips because of laws saying they dont have to be paid min wage and most make like 2 to 3 dollars an hour

Yeah $2.13 an hour.
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Captain_Qwark posted...

Cooks deserve tips more than waitresses do. They should be strictly hourly. Cooks should be hourly + tips.

Taking an order, asking for refills and bringing the check isn't anything deserving of a tip. Making good food is

The cooks wouldnt be getting tips though, the employers would just be taking tips from servers to pay the normal wages of the cooks.

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harley2280 posted...

So is most people's expectation of "good food". Balancing 10 tables on a busy night is much harder than microwaving appetizers in the back, and throwing a steak on the oven for a few minutes.

as someone whos first job was in the back of a restaurant, you have never worked in the back of a restaurant before if this is all you think the cooks do.

on topic: once again tipping culture is dumb and resturaunts giving way to tipping culture instead of paying their employees a living wage is disgusting. This wont help at all, all this is going to do is turn the back of the house against the front of the house.

but do cooks also deserve much more pay? Fuck yes they do.

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harley2280 posted...

Yeah sorry for coming off as aggressive. I probably should have clarified before I gave that example.

I was being pretty combative as well so don't worry about it :)

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Is a waiter not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

CADE FOSTER posted...

dont wait staff work for tips because of laws saying they dont have to be paid min wage and most make like 2 to 3 dollars an hour

Yes, although if the tips dont get them to minimum wage the employer still has to pay them minimum. Source: worked in a theatre-restaurant as both a cook and a server.

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this... doesn't really seem fair. idk. kinda robbing peter to pay paul and they both got bills to pay, damn. if you're worried about the pay of the cooks then raise minimum wage.

but it's not really about that, just like the article says this isn't to benefit the guys in the kitchen, it's to benefit the guys in the office chairs.

Shablagoo posted...

Yes, although if the tips dont get them to minimum wage the employer still has to pay them minimum. Source: worked in a theatre-restaurant as both a cook and a server.

Also gives employers are reason to terminate their employees, because if they aren't getting adequate tips, then they obviously aren't doing their job correctly.

-_-

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Wait-staff take home money will go down because tips are getting split between even more people
Cooks and other employees will not get an appreciable increase in take home money because their base pay can now be slashed like wait-staffers
Employers will pocket more profits and pay their employees less, instead of passing their payroll savings on to customers via lowering prices
Expectations for tipping will increase well above the 15-20% it currently is

Bottom line is everyone is either paying more or getting less, except for the owners.
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PlsGodDontBanMe posted...

harley2280 posted...

So is most people's expectation of "good food". Balancing 10 tables on a busy night is much harder than microwaving appetizers in the back, and throwing a steak on the oven for a few minutes.

as someone whos first job was in the back of a restaurant, you have never worked in the back of a restaurant before if this is all you think the cooks do.

on topic: once again tipping culture is dumb and resturaunts giving way to tipping culture instead of paying their employees a living wage is disgusting. This wont help at all, all this is going to do is turn the back of the house against the front of the house.

but do cooks also deserve much more pay? Fuck yes they do.

I'm just using the same over generalizing about a job that he is.
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UK here. So what is the motivation of people to tip in the US?

I'm fine with this. I never liked doing the dirty work and getting nothing

This will change nothing though

the restaurant industry is dead and our new waiters will be those stupid tablets

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Not read anything but the OP.

I work back of house, have for over a decade. From scrubbing pots and bussing tables to grill and expedite. Back of house wages are almost always far, far below what serve staff pull in (be it a waiter/waitress or a bartender) with back of house typically getting only minimum wage for starting out and a few dollars more for skilled pay (most I've ever made as a high level chef is $12/hour where minimum wage is $7.25 here). Meanwhile serve staff can easily make $20/hour or more even in crappy chain restaurants like Applebee's. Yes it is made entirely at the discretion of customers and serve staff do not typically get benefits no matter how many hours they work but make no mistake your average waiter makes more than pretty much any job that does not require a college degree.

I work in a position that, theoretically, would benefit the most from tips sharing. It could definitely help average out the disparity between front and back of house pay if servers got standard wages and then the entire building split tips... And all that said FUCK this proposal. This is just another attempt from a sleazy asshole from Big Business trying to find a way to take money out of employees' pockets to cover their own expenses. Even if it worked in the most altruistic possible manner, with servers never losing a penny of income because employers maintained their average pay after tip split, this proposal is still fucking terrible for employees. Servers would have zero fucking initiative to go above and beyond what service calls for in order to get tips. It would lead to worse experiences for customers and therefor less overall money, and I would not blame servers in the slightest. Your average customer is a shitty, needy, demanding asshole who has no respect for the fact that you are covering 4+ tables at a time, each with their own needs and requests. Servers make bank because they can deal with the stress of that while making you think you are no imposition whatsoever.

Say what you want about tipping culture but I promise you no one who works a job depending on tips wants to change it. They KNOW they'd make way less money hourly. All this does is line the pockets of greedy restaurant owners at the expense of both customers and employees, just like fucking everything this blighted fucking administrations has put forth in the last 4 years
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PlsGodDontBanMe posted...

but do cooks also deserve much more pay? Fuck yes they do.

God yeah we do, but not at the cost of serve staff income. Fucking owners can afford to pay cooks an actual wage. Its why there is such high turnover in kitchens, nobody wants to pay good cooks a decent wage so when it gets shitty the good cooks bounce, knowing full and damn well they can walk down the street and get a new job THAT DAY
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Alucard188 posted...

Also gives employers are reason to terminate their employees, because if they aren't getting adequate tips, then they obviously aren't doing their job correctly.

-_-

Thats a good point. I was actually pretty lucky at that place, it was billed as a chic, classy place so, especially on big event nights we made tons of tips.

Corrupt_Power posted...

Wait-staff take home money will go down because tips are getting split between even more people
Cooks and other employees will not get an appreciable increase in take home money because their base pay can now be slashed like wait-staffers
Employers will pocket more profits and pay their employees less, instead of passing their payroll savings on to customers via lowering prices
Expectations for tipping will increase well above the 15-20% it currently is

Bottom line is everyone is either paying more or getting less, except for the owners.

Well said.


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Corrupt_Power posted...

Wait-staff take home money will go down because tips are getting split between even more people
Cooks and other employees will not get an appreciable increase in take home money because their base pay can now be slashed like wait-staffers
Employers will pocket more profits and pay their employees less, instead of passing their payroll savings on to customers via lowering prices
Expectations for tipping will increase well above the 15-20% it currently is

Bottom line is everyone is either paying more or getting less, except for the owners.

Very fair argument tbh and I agree this is a bad idea.

However the cooking staff absolutely deserves more money than the waiting staff.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

However the cooking staff absolutely deserves more money than the waiting staff.

Cooking is physical work mostly in a high stress enviroment. You need the skills to pay the bills, and cooks definitely do not get paid enough.

Serve staff is mostly emotional work, which requires an entirely different skill set and is recognized by mental health professionals as one of the things that takes the largest toll on people. Serve staff absolutely deserve every penny they get for having to deal with the Kens and Karens of the world with a smile on their face and the ability not to straight up choke a bitch out. I've done both and cooking is far, far easier despite requiring a more extensive skill set
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fire_bolt posted...

Cooking is physical work mostly in a high stress enviroment. You need the skills to pay the bills, and cooks definitely do not get paid enough.

Serve staff is mostly emotional work, which requires an entirely different skill set and is recognized by mental health professionals as one of the things that takes the largest toll on people. Serve staff absolutely deserve every penny they get for having to deal with the Kens and Karens of the world with a smile on their face and the ability not to straight up choke a bitch out. I've done both and cooking is far, far easier despite requiring a more extensive skill set

Meh, there is truth to what you say but restaurant dynamics are pretty skewed toward benefitting the FoH. If a waiter is pulling in 1k a week compared to a dishie making half that... Basically, I dont even work in kitchens anymore because of this bullshit.

Even if the work is harder, it's not worth twice as much

My main issue is BoH works harder the busier the place gets, and make the same money. Waiter pay scales with business.

Splitting tips is fair.

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When I was a server at Olive Garden the BoH got paid almost double my hourly wage. I know that's not the same everywhere but I tried tipping one of the cooks out once when I first started and he seriously got offended lol
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I can agree that cooks/prep/dish positions make less than they should, but it shouldn't be at the expense of servers wages. Especially at a time where we can't use all of our tables, I'm lucky to get $250 a week right now. That's an issue with the restaurants not paying their staff enough.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

When I was a server at Olive Garden the BoH got paid almost double my hourly wage. I know that's not the same everywhere but I tried tipping one of the cooks out once when I first started and he seriously got offended lol

Your hourly wage or your total wage after tips?

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KStateKing17 posted...

I can agree that cooks/prep/dish positions make less than they should, but it shouldn't be at the expense of servers wages. Especially at a time where we can't use all of our tables, I'm lucky to get $250 a week right now. That's an issue with the restaurants not paying their staff enough.

COVID is a bizarre exception and I'm sorry you have to go through this

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ITT. A bunch of dweebs who dont know how restaurants work

I swear CE gets more out of touch with reality by the day. Or Im just finding it less amusing and more ridiculous that people in their 20s and 30s are this dumb.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

Your hourly wage or your total wage after tips?

Hourly not including tips. Back when I was a server I believe the state minimum was $8.25 or $7.25 and they made double that for the most part. Varied between jobs but anyone behind the grill was making at least double if not more. Dish washers made a little less than double.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Hourly not including tips. Back when I was a server I believe the state minimum was $8.25 or $7.25 and they made double that for the most part. Varied between jobs but anyone behind the grill was making at least double if not more. Dish washers made a little less than double.

that's close to how it works out here, server wage is around that and min wage is 14, many restaurants will pay15 though and then usually a quarter a year raises, maybe a dollar from 14 to 15... a pizza cook or grill cook might make 17, sure, but it's still not going to compare to a server's wage plus tips, if the restaurant is good or popular and there's no virus. there is, after all, there is a reason that attractive people flock to server jobs. and yet servers will die on this hill to try and argue their base wage is lower as if the tips aren't the main draw of the job... I just don't get it. even if SOME nights you make less, the server will generally take home more. not always the case, but usually? you bet

edit: i should add, most of my experience is in high traffic restaurants. there's probably a lot of dead locations where servers lose money, and there cooks have to get paid, so that situation is a lot different.

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From my experience, we were a high traffic location and the servers would still get fucked by management cutting their shift short. So you could end up working a 3 - 4 hour shift with hardly any tips to go home with because management could still pawn off a ridiculous amount of tables on their favorite servers and cut you out of your hourly. Where as the BoH were never cut early unless they had a personal emergency.

Either way, both the FoH and BoH get fucked by management in restaurants. Olive Garden had a 3 table rule for servers (unless you were a favorite basically) and if you worked breakfast or lunch you'd sometimes go home with basically nothing.
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MedeaLysistrata posted...

Even if the work is harder, it's not worth twice as much

This isn't an issue with front of house being overpaid, it is an issue with back of house being dramatically underpaid. If cooks would quit job hopping constantly (and flat out quit working for cheapskate bosses) then we could see wages increase to par with front of house. The answer to you being underpaid is not to take cash out of your coworker's pocket
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fire_bolt posted...

This isn't an issue with front of house being overpaid

actually this is my problem with it. server: 60k, dishwasher: 25k, busser: 30k, linecook: 35k

sometimes redistribution IS the answer

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

actually this is my problem with it. server: 60k, dishwasher: 25k, busser: 30k, linecook: 35k

sometimes redistribution IS the answer

How much does the owner get in this example?

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

actually this is my problem with it. server: 60k, dishwasher: 25k, busser: 30k, linecook: 35k

sometimes redistribution IS the answer

I'm still not sure if BoH staff pay would increase or just be paid out of FoH staff tips (employer then keeping the BoH wages they were paying) under the 80/20 rule

scar the 1 posted...

How much does the owner get in this example?

a shitload, because any restaurant where a sever is making 60k will have very high prices

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Ruvan22 posted...

MedeaLysistrata posted...

actually this is my problem with it. server: 60k, dishwasher: 25k, busser: 30k, linecook: 35k

sometimes redistribution IS the answer

I'm still not sure if BoH staff pay would increase or just be paid out of FoH staff tips (employer then keeping the BoH wages they were paying) under the 80/20 rule

It would be the latter. The only winner here is the business owner.
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At that point I'd rather just eliminate tipping culture in restaurants. The whole appeal of tipping to customers is that you have some control over your service. Youre diminishing that power if things are done this way. Id rather everyone get a normal hourly wage. I'll just pay more for the base meal then.

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Returning_CEmen posted...

Trumps war on tipping

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

actually this is my problem with it. server: 60k, dishwasher: 25k, busser: 30k, linecook: 35k

Lmao, idk where you live but those wages are WAY off base for most of the world. I don't even make 25k as management here and I'm the highest paid employee in the building besides the actual executive chef who runs everything (who barely makes 25k). Stop trying to judge the rest of the world by Cali/NY's inflated economy lol
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