Current Events > Zero Punctuation: Hurting your character doesn't make them interesting.

(+) Yeah! (+)

However, Vonnegut says: "Be a sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them in order that the reader may see what they are made of."

What insane psychopath thought goes through someone's mind to not include a link to the quote in question when you make a topic like this?
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What game was Yahtzee reviewing when he said this?

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I'm gonna say The Last of us 2.

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Schopenhauer actually has a great discussion of Beauty vs Interest in one of his books, though I forget most of it. Worth looking up.

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I'd equate that with making pain and suffering a personality trait. You can't cover up bad writing just through making someone a rape victim, killing their family, making them suffer years of abuse, etc. That in itself doesn't make for a good character, but putting someone well written through hardship can bring about interesting dynamics.

Wasn't this Tomb Raider?

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Having someone get kidnapped and beheaded is more interesting than them watching TV

Who would watch a series of fortunate events? Not me

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However, there's a point where it goes too far. Like TWD's Season 7 premiere. After the major moments, it just ventured into torture porn territory. While it may have been interesting to see Rick being broken in front of his group after acting like a hardass, there was a point where it was just too much.

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I tried to read one of Yahtzee's books. I wouldn't listen to him for storytelling advice.

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Yahtzee and The Critical Drinker, both of whom are "novelists", can't write for shit, so I don't think it matters.

I think he said that quote about The Last of Us Part II, though. And nah, it was interesting to see Ellie get her shit kicked in when she was practically invulnerable for the entirety of the game. It goes to show that there are some challenges you can't overcome.

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Unsugarized_Foo posted...

Having someone get kidnapped and beheaded is more interesting than them watching TV

Thank you for helping me understand why I like literature more than TV

A guy watching TV in a book can be interesting

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Critique is valuable but there is too much of it. For every video game you have thousands and of terrible Youtubers giving their 2 cents.

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those two statements aren't mutually exclusive. hurting characters does not, in and of itself, make them interesting

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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

Critique is valuable but there is too much of it. For every video game you have thousands and of terrible Youtubers giving their 2 cents.

are you using "critique" here as an antonym of "praise"? because "Youtubers giving their 2 cents" is not necessarily critique outside of that sense of the word

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I agree but I feel like you need to be more precise: hurting a character just for the sake of shocking the reader is bad (see e.g., late GoT seasons). However, challenging the character is what makes a story interesting in the first place. In some cases that could require hurting them.

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DeadBankerDream posted...

What insane psychopath thought goes through someone's mind to not include a link to the quote in question when you make a topic like this?

Last of us II, and the Tomb Raider Games.

But no, he's got a point, and actually explains it well in his argument. Here I'll paraphrase the quote.

"Getting your shit ruined is not enough to make a character interesting. Take Captain Walker from Spec Ops: The Line, he's interesting because he's made into a monster by his good intentions."

Anyone who's played Spec Ops can probably see where he's coming from. Captain Was an interesting character, and he and Ellie honestly aren't too different from each other if you play a small amount of mental gymnastics.

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But isn't Ellie made into a monster by circumstances?


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I agree that hurting your characters doesn't make them interesting, but how they use that pain can.

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I think it can make them interesting. Like in Tokyo Ghoul, both the torture at the hands of Jason and losing his memory after getting bodied by Arima heavily shaped Kaneki into who he was by the end

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Unsugarized_Foo posted...

Who would watch a series of fortunate events? Not me

Tons of people love Forest Gump tho

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