Current Events > Most of Biden's proposed gun control measures are Godawful and short-sighted.

(+) Yeah! (+)

With most of them essentially punishing you if you're not wealthy or have a lot of throwaway money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWBPmHv9jY0

I want to like Biden, but leave the Goddamn guns alone. The 1994 assault weapons ban didn't do shit(which is why it ended 10 years later), tackle the rampant suicide and gang violence issues instead.

You can hate guns all you want, but even you have to see the issue that arises from gun ownership only available to higher income homes and people.

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I'm fully expecting these to just cause even more illegal weapons to go into circulation, or cause a surge in violence.

The problem is there's just so many of them in circulation, you can't just ban them and that suck them out of existence. I just see this causing a larger rift and pissing people with guns off, which is the greatest thing to do iirc.

Biden is a piece of shit

Malcrasternus posted...

You can hate guns all you want, but even you have to see the issue that arises from gun ownership only available to higher income homes and people.

All part of the plan.

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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts

• States with more guns have more gun deaths
• Developed countries with more guns also have more gun deaths
• America is an outlier when it comes to gun deaths, but not overall crime
• States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths
• The states with the most guns report the most suicides and policies that limit access to guns have decreased suicides
• In states with more guns, more police officers are also killed on duty
• Americans make up less than 5 percent of the worlds population, yet they own roughly 45 percent of all the worlds privately held firearms.

https://lawcenter.giffords.org/facts/gun-violence-statistics/

• Access to a gun doubles the risk of homicide
• Unintentional shootings comprise 1.3% of gun deaths and 18% of gun injuries.33
• Living in a home with a firearm significantly increases the risk of death by an unintentional gunshot injury
• 1,500 children are shot and killed each year.
• Gun violence is the second-leading cause of death among children overall and the first-leading cause of death among black children
• Every year, 600 American women are shot to death by intimate partners.51 Of all women murdered with a gun in the US, half are killed by their intimate partners.
• When an abuser has access to a gun, a domestic violence victim is five times more likely to be killed
• In 2017, gun deaths reached their highest level in at least 40 years, with 39,773 deaths that year alone.
• Gun deaths increased by 16% from 2014 to 2017
• The ten states with the highest gun death rates have some of the weakest gun laws in the nation.
• Americans are 25 times more likely to die from gun violence than residents of peer nations.
• Gun homicides have increased over 30% since 2014.
• Gun violence costs over 229 billion every year.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/guns-crime/reports/2017/10/05/440373/myth-vs-fact-debunking-gun-lobbys-favorite-talking-points/

• An FBI study of 160 active-shooting incidents from 2000 to 2013 found that only one was stopped by an individual with a valid firearms permit. In contrast, 21 incidents were stopped by unarmed citizens
• Expansive concealed carry permitting laws are linked to an increase in violent crime. A 2017 study by researchers at Stanford University found that, 10 years after enacting these laws, states experienced a 13 percent to 15 percent rise in violent crimes
• Using a gun for defense during a robbery has no significant benefits. A 2015 analysis by researchers at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health of the National Crime Victimization Survey found that the likelihood of sustaining an injury during a robbery was nearly identical between people who attempted to defend themselves with a gun and those who took no defensive action.
• A gun is more likely to be stolen than used to stop a crime. According to a CAP analysis of the National Crime Victimization Survey, guns are nearly twice as likely to be stolen than to be used for self-defense

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262

• the Good Guy With A Gun is a myth and the one study claiming guns stopped hundreds of thousands of crimes was debunked

But sure, lets just leave the guns alone, thats a brilliant idea.

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I'm left-wing on virtually every issue but guns (though really it shouldn't be a left-right issue in this country). I still felt forced to vote for him because Trump is just that bad (and not as great on gun rights as right-wingers would have you believe), but Biden's gun control policy is really bad. I feel like a lot of gun-control advocates don't even have a clear definition of what an "assault rifle" is. Replace an AR-15's black telescoping stock with a wooden one and they'll think it's a plain old hunting rifle.

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seankimberley42 posted...

But sure, lets just leave the guns alone, thats a brilliant idea.

All very good and researched points.

Except, all of that will essentially worsen now with the proposed measures, since it's not about whether or not a person is fit for gun ownership, but how much money they have or know someone willing to sell under the table to them, bypassing gun registrations and background checks entirely.

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Malcrasternus posted...

All very good and researched points.

Except, all of that will essentially worsen now with the proposed measures, since it's not about whether or not a person is fit for gun ownership, but how much money they have or know someone willing to sell under the table to them, bypassing gun registrations and background checks entirely.

Well first of all no this wont somehow make the purchase of guns easier (the only way to make this worse). Regardless, all of that doesnt matter, because it doesnt fucking matter what the proposal is, your type;

Malcrasternus posted...

leave the Goddamn guns alone.

find any sort of actual gun control legislation too much, when the fact is guns are a horrible thing to have in the average household and literally the only thing they lead to is death and injury, which more than likely will occur to the owner of the gun, or his kids. Its fucking nonsensical and completely idiotic they your country still keeps these dumbass 2A laws in place. The numbers speak for themselves.

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Colion Noir is literally an NRA shill though.

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BIDEN is godawful and short sighted.

The delusional fuck thinks he can unite the country (Against HIM, maybe.) and wants to coddle the enemies of America. As in, let Trump go free. Of course even when he talks about gun control, it's in a stupid way that favors the rich.

Favoring the rich is all he's ever done.
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CRON posted...

Colion Noir is literally an NRA shill though.

Who doesn't have NRA affiliation anymore. He dropped them a while back. Which is good, the current NRA leadership fucking sucks.

seankimberley42 posted...

find any sort of actual gun control legislation too much, when the fact is guns are a horrible thing to have in the average household and literally the only thing they lead to is death and injury, which more than likely will occur to the owner of the gun, or his kids. Its fucking nonsensical and completely idiotic they your country still keeps these dumbass 2A laws in place. The numbers speak for themselves.

Ah, I can already tell this will be a wonderful discussion.

And "my type" huh? I'd love to know what my type is in your eyes.

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User with gun company logos all over his profile pic posts a "biden's coming for our guns" claim backed up only by a YouTube video.

This, folks, is shitposting at its finest.

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Malcrasternus posted...

Who doesn't have NRA affiliation anymore. He dropped them a while back.

Ah, I can already tell this will be a wonderful discussion.

And "my type" huh? I'd love to know what my type is in your eyes.

Yes, your type. You know, the type that says

Malcrasternus posted...

leave the Goddamn guns alone.

FFS man not only are you the one who said it, I specifically quoted you saying it.

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PompousAss posted...

User with gun company logos all over his profile pic posts a "biden's coming for our guns" claim backed up only by a YouTube video.

This, folks, is shitposting at its finest.

I've been very vocal about my interests and gun ownership stances on this site for years, making several gun control debate topics sporadically throughout. Plus Biden's gun control proposals have been publicly known for a very long time now, so that too, isn't breaking news.

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Malcrasternus posted...

All very good and researched points.

Except, all of that will essentially worsen now with the proposed measures, since it's not about whether or not a person is fit for gun ownership, but how much money they have or know someone willing to sell under the table to them, bypassing gun registrations and background checks entirely.

And the main target of Biden's gun control policies will be assault weapons, which make up only 4% of gun deaths in the US. Handguns are by far the biggest cause of gun-related deaths.

The sad irony to me about gun violence in this country is that many of the other traditional left-wing policies would curtail gun violence massively without violating second amendment rights. Ending the War on Drugs, better wages and healthcare access and all that. Not to mention all of the other types of deaths these laws could prevent. But it's hard to get these policies passed when you're scaring gun owners. If Democrats dropped the gun control issue many of those gun owners might stay home on election day. A few might even change sides since it's a very common cause of single-issue voting.

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seankimberley42 posted...

FFS man not only are you the one who said it, I specifically quoted you saying it.

Ah, so you looked at it from face value, not realizing that it comes from someone seeing thousands of gun laws in place both on the national and state level, that either never get enforced, or focus on the firearm itself rather than expanding and deepening background checks, or enforcing safe storage laws that alone would decimate so many wrongful deaths and suicides.

But no, gun bad, ban now, right?

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Agreed, The Second Amendment is extremely important.



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I support the 2nd amendment because it would allow an armed populace to stand up to a tyrannical government. If the government opposes the private ownership of firearms it's because they intend to do something that would call for them to be used. Anybody who believes the government cares about them, and has their best interest in heart is a fool.

Plain and simple.

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Voter ID Laws are bad because people can't afford 10 dollars and it takes away their right to vote.

Yet when it comes to the second amendment it's like "lol fuck that"

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The problem with almost any gun control measures is that rich people can jump through whatever legal and financial hoops you place in front of them. Really all they are accomplishing with shit like this is placing a financial burden on the working class's ability to defend itself.

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CRON posted...

Colion Noir is literally an NRA shill though.

This. The NRA sucks, they don't lobby for owners, they lobby for manufacturers.

As to Biden's plans? Yeah, they suck. There are no solutions there.

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Malcrasternus posted...

Ah, so you looked at it from face value, not realizing that it comes from someone seeing thousands of gun laws in place both on the national and state level, that either never get enforced, or focus on the firearm itself rather than expanding and deepening background checks, or enforcing safe storage laws that alone would decimate so many wrongful deaths and suicides.

But no, gun bad, ban now, right?

Yes? FFS man, Your solution is garbage. Its literally Well lets enforce our already shitty gun control laws. I mean, gunsll still cause way more deaths than they save, but the disparity is less than before so its a win! Apparently you didnt read them before so Ill post the proof of that again;

seankimberley42 posted...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts
* States with more guns have more gun deaths
* Developed countries with more guns also have more gun deaths
* America is an outlier when it comes to gun deaths, but not overall crime
* States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths
* The states with the most guns report the most suicides and policies that limit access to guns have decreased suicides
* In states with more guns, more police officers are also killed on duty
* Americans make up less than 5 percent of the worlds population, yet they own roughly 45 percent of all the worlds privately held firearms.

https://lawcenter.giffords.org/facts/gun-violence-statistics/

* Access to a gun doubles the risk of homicide
* Unintentional shootings comprise 1.3% of gun deaths and 18% of gun injuries.33
* Living in a home with a firearm significantly increases the risk of death by an unintentional gunshot injury
* 1,500 children are shot and killed each year.
* Gun violence is the second-leading cause of death among children overall and the first-leading cause of death among black children
* Every year, 600 American women are shot to death by intimate partners.51 Of all women murdered with a gun in the US, half are killed by their intimate partners.
* When an abuser has access to a gun, a domestic violence victim is five times more likely to be killed
* In 2017, gun deaths reached their highest level in at least 40 years, with 39,773 deaths that year alone.
* Gun deaths increased by 16% from 2014 to 2017
* The ten states with the highest gun death rates have some of the weakest gun laws in the nation.
* Americans are 25 times more likely to die from gun violence than residents of peer nations.
* Gun homicides have increased over 30% since 2014.
* Gun violence costs over 229 billion every year.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/guns-crime/reports/2017/10/05/440373/myth-vs-fact-debunking-gun-lobbys-favorite-talking-points/

* An FBI study of 160 active-shooting incidents from 2000 to 2013 found that only one was stopped by an individual with a valid firearms permit. In contrast, 21 incidents were stopped by unarmed citizens
* Expansive concealed carry permitting laws are linked to an increase in violent crime. A 2017 study by researchers at Stanford University found that, 10 years after enacting these laws, states experienced a 13 percent to 15 percent rise in violent crimes
* Using a gun for defense during a robbery has no significant benefits. A 2015 analysis by researchers at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health of the National Crime Victimization Survey found that the likelihood of sustaining an injury during a robbery was nearly identical between people who attempted to defend themselves with a gun and those who took no defensive action.
* A gun is more likely to be stolen than used to stop a crime. According to a CAP analysis of the National Crime Victimization Survey, guns are nearly twice as likely to be stolen than to be used for self-defense

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262
* the Good Guy With A Gun is a myth and the one study claiming guns stopped hundreds of thousands of crimes was debunked

But sure, lets just leave the guns alone, thats a brilliant idea.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I support the 2nd amendment because it would allow an armed populace to stand up to a tyrannical government. If the government opposes the private ownership of firearms it's because they intend to do something that would call for them to be used. Anybody who believes the government cares about them, and has their best interest in heart is a fool.

Plain and simple.

I'm just going to keep quoting this, and hopefully people will understand that the second amendment actually creates a 4th branch of the government, the people. It's the final check and balance. Because it ensures that no government branch/ agency oversteps their boundaries.

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New gun laws ain't gonna stop Chicago from doing its thing.

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The gun lobby needs to be dismantled, and the entire fear-based culture around gun ownership needs to go as well.

That being said, we should keep guns accessible to the lower class so long as there is systemic racism, sexism, and homo/transphobia.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I'm just going to keep quoting this, and hopefully people will understand that the second amendment actually creates a 4th branch of the government, the people. It's the final check and balance. Because it ensures that no government branch/ agency oversteps their boundaries.

A prime example is when a bunch of people on this board asked for European interference if Trump refused to step down from office. Actually, it's your and my job to take back our government. NOT someone else's. It's the point of the second amendment.

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I support the 2nd amendment because it would allow an armed populace to stand up to a tyrannical government. If the government opposes the private ownership of firearms it's because they intend to do something that would call for them to be used. Anybody who believes the government cares about them, and has their best interest in heart is a fool.

Plain and simple.

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KillerSlaw posted...

people can't afford 10 dollars and it takes away their right to vote.

40-60$ for an ID card, good for 8 years.
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seankimberley42 posted...

Yes?

lol

And we're done. Banning firearms when there are more of them than there are US citizens. Alright man, good luck. Police violence is out of control, and now they have to come in and confiscate from known armed individuals.

Literally every single one of those statistics could be decimated if the "shitty" laws in place were actually enforced.

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Meh, fuck him.

Theres always going to be loopholes and those of us that own guns will continue to own them. Too little too late to try and take control of them at this point.

Probably just lip service from Biden to please the party anyways.

Gun control measure do work in most first world countries, the problem is that America is the exception to the rule because you have to deal with millions of unregistered guns in circulation and we have a rampant gun culture that basically worships these things. I knew many guys in the south (from where I used to live) whose whole hobby is collecting fire arms of all sorts. It just can't work in America and if mass shootings doesn't change America opinions on guns, I honestly don't know what will.

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Ugh, Biden is so disappointing. He's still many orders of magnitude better than Trump though

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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Ugh, Biden is so disappointing. He's still many orders of magnitude better than Trump though

Agreed, but this is going to be a huge point against him if he keeps pushing it as part of his platform come next election cycle, and gun violence hasn't changed at all for the better.

Prestoff posted...

Gun control measure do work in most first world countries, the problem is that America is the exception to the rule because you have to deal with millions of unregistered guns in circulation and we have a rampant gun culture that basically worships these things. I knew many guys in the south (from where I used to live) whose whole hobby is collecting fire arms of all sorts. It just can't work in America and if mass shootings doesn't change America opinions on guns, I honestly don't know what will.

Thousands of gun laws have been introduced and passed since the AWB of '94-'04, the problem that some people don't realize is they often just restrict or ban things, instead of working towards tackling why people are driven to commit those crimes in the first place. People call that a pipe dream, but then try to call sweeping bans and buybacks as effective.

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Better than what Trump supporters have done the past four years. I admit that Biden is bad, they pretended that Trump was doing good things when he was doing objectively bad things

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do you honestly expect someone who has given gun "advice" that was illegal on camera at several points in recent years to know anything about guns, the law or have the ability to craft new ones that dont blatantly violate the constitution and only serve to aid the wealthy?

LMAO now you hypoctites care about the constitution

muchdran posted...

Biden is a piece of shit

He's far better then Trump

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PaunchyTurtle53 posted...

I support the 2nd amendment because it would allow an armed populace to stand up to a tyrannical government. If the government opposes the private ownership of firearms it's because they intend to do something that would call for them to be used. Anybody who believes the government cares about them, and has their best interest in heart is a fool.

Plain and simple.

Putting this here again.

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