Current Events > Anybody care enough about Bayonetta to talk about it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'll warn you now I just want to talk about why the first one is better than the second. I'm about halfway through getting platinum trophies on Infinite Climax in Bayonetta 2.

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I don't have an extensive knowledge of Bayonetta but I actually always thought 1 was a bit better than 2. Bayo 2 went bigger everything but it was stuffed with bosses and hardly any regular enemy fights to let the combat truly shine. Also sometimes so much stuff was happening in the background that it got kinda tough to see what was going on.

Bayonetta 1 has many more opportunities to really flex your skills and knowledge of the combat and feels more satisfying as a result when you get better. I do wish it didn't have insta-death QTEs though.
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why is Netflix making a show about it?

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BakonBitz posted...

Bayo 2 went bigger everything but it was stuffed with bosses and hardly any regular enemy fights to let the combat truly shine.

If you go through all the verses, there are probably a similar amount of combat encounters. However, in several chapters of Bayo 2 half or more of the verses are hidden or optional for some reason.

BakonBitz posted...

Also sometimes so much stuff was happening in the background that it got kinda tough to see what was going on.

Visual clutter is a big issue in the second game imo, especially in harder difficulties. On Infinite climax enemies can break out of stun instantly and do a very quick attack. But your wicked weave can literally cover the entire enemy animation before it hits you, even with normal combos. When you go into super mode, the problem gets a lot worse with random breakouts and finisher animations.

BakonBitz posted...

I do wish it didn't have insta-death QTEs though.

This is something that gets less annoying when you're replaying chapters for rank like I did. It's annoying on your first playthrough though since a lot of them are bullshit.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Here's what I'll say about enemies in Bayo 1 and 2: while there are more enemy designs in Bayo 2, there are more significantly different types of combat encounters among the smaller pool of enemies that Bayo 1 has. I find different weapons, combos, accessories, and strategies are often better suited to one enemy or situation vs. another, although there are plenty of "universal" strategies that will get you through the game. In Bayo 2, the game plan is pretty much always the same and it doesn't really matter what combos or weapons are using. Especially since combo score is roughly correlated with damage (which it is not in Bayo 1). Aside from the straight bullshit enemies like Sloth.

Edit: I'm not super good at these games btw, but I have played enough of both that I think I have a halfway decent opinion.

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Bayo 2 was good but yeah I also much preferred the first game.

Personally I'm not a fan of what they did with Balder in Bayo 2. I liked how much of an asshole he was in Bayo 1 and the fight with him in that game was so cool, so for them to just be like" lol nah jk that wasn't really balder the whole time!" kinda takes the piss out of it.

I have only played Bayo 1, first on X360 and then on PC. Loved it, probably one of my top 3 games of all time. The sword and ice skates combo was my favourite. Disappointed with the nunchuck, it should have been a dual wield weapon. I love how over the top the game is. It doesn't take itself seriously.

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The thing about Bayo 2 is that it's a much easier game to simply pick up and play. Love is Blue (the new gun moveset) is pretty fluid and natural to control, the way Bayonetta slides around in a dodge is slick, enemies and bosses are quite colorful and flashy, and it's an easier/less punishing game than the first as well. Musphelheims are also much, much easier than the first game, and the combo system doesn't require much effort since going for high dps combos will do the job just fine.

Under that, though, the enemies are much less interesting to deal with because enemies are more random and much more resistant to stun by wicked weaves. Especially on Infinite Climax where you are pretty unlikely to hit any full combo on a boss because they constantly phase out of your moves, parry, or counter what you're doing unless you're in witch time. And witch time is reduced on harder difficulties for hardness reasons, but is still 100% necessary to deal with bosses and some enemies effectively. This also isn't helped by the fact that enemies are far more likely to attack you from offscreen in Bayo 2, where in Bayo 1 they were basically programmed to leave you alone if you couldn't see them for the most part. This is aided by how the camera is framed pretty close to Bayonetta, which typically limited just how many enemies you were actually dealing with at once. In Bayo 2 there's usually a lot more shit to keep track of on screen in the first place, so I end up constantly dodge offsetting just so I dodge the random slough of attacks that sometimes comes my way.

As mentioned before, I also think the combat encounters all feel the same in Bayo 2. But in Bayo 1 I really think fighting something like Grace and Glory is very different from fighting a group of Joys, or Ardors, or a bunch of random angels. Fairness and Fearless is a very different thing from fighting the big dudes with the axes (can't remember the name lol). Personally, I can't really same the same as Bayo 1. Because of it, I am getting legitimately bored getting platinum trophies on the hardest difficulty of the game. It also doesn't help that I'm getting to the parts which cause maximum annoyance now.

That being said, it's not a bad game as I'm still enjoying it just enough to keep going. And ironically, I didn't really enjoy my first playthrough of Bayo 1 much, but my first playthrough of Bayo 2 was so enjoyable it made me go back to play the shit out of the first game.

MagnusDJL posted...

Personally I'm not a fan of what they did with Balder in Bayo 2. I liked how much of an a****** he was in Bayo 1 and the fight with him in that game was so cool, so for them to just be like" lol nah jk that wasn't really balder the whole time!" kinda takes the piss out of it.

I did not understand what the fuck was even happening in Bayo 1 (and I'm not sure I do after like 6-10 play throughs) so I didn't care very much about the retcon lol.

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008Zulu posted...

I have only played Bayo 1, first on X360 and then on PC. Loved it, probably one of my top 3 games of all time. The sword and ice skates combo was my favourite. Disappointed with the nunchuck, it should have been a dual wield weapon. I love how over the top the game is. It doesn't take itself seriously.

I see people do some interesting stuff with Sai Fung in playthroughs, but after 100 chapters I got attached to the other weapons lol. I played all this on Switch.

Bayo 2 is okay, but it isn't more Bayo 1.

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Jabodie posted...

The thing about Bayo 2 is that it's a much easier game to simply pick up and play. Love is Blue (the new gun moveset) is pretty fluid and natural to control, the way Bayonetta slides around in a dodge is slick, enemies and bosses are quite colorful and flashy, and it's an easier/less punishing game than the first as well. Musphelheims are also much, much easier than the first game, and the combo system doesn't require much effort since going for high dps combos will do the job just fine.

Under that, though, the enemies are much less interesting to deal with because enemies are more random and much more resistant to stun by wicked weaves. Especially on Infinite Climax where you are pretty unlikely to hit any full combo on a boss because they constantly phase out of your moves, parry, or counter what you're doing unless you're in witch time. And witch time is reduced on harder difficulties for hardness reasons, but is still 100% necessary to deal with bosses and some enemies effectively. This also isn't helped by the fact that enemies are far more likely to attack you from offscreen in Bayo 2, where in Bayo 1 they were basically programmed to leave you alone if you couldn't see them for the most part. This is aided by how the camera is framed pretty close to Bayonetta, which typically limited just how many enemies you were actually dealing with at once. In Bayo 2 there's usually a lot more shit to keep track of on screen in the first place, so I end up constantly dodge offsetting just so I dodge the random slough of attacks that sometimes comes my way.

As mentioned before, I also think the combat encounters all feel the same in Bayo 2. But in Bayo 1 I really think fighting something like Grace and Glory is very different from fighting a group of Joys, or Ardors, or a bunch of random angels. Fairness and Fearless is a very different thing from fighting the big dudes with the axes (can't remember the name lol). Personally, I can't really same the same as Bayo 1. Because of it, I am getting legitimately bored getting platinum trophies on the hardest difficulty of the game. It also doesn't help that I'm getting to the parts which cause maximum annoyance now.

That being said, it's not a bad game as I'm still enjoying it just enough to keep going. And ironically, I didn't really enjoy my first playthrough of Bayo 1 much, but my first playthrough of Bayo 2 was so enjoyable it made me go back to play the shit out of the first game.

I did not understand what the fuck was even happening in Bayo 1 (and I'm not sure I do after like 6-10 play throughs) so I didn't care very much about the retcon lol.

After playing Bayonetta 1 multiple times I recall being able to make some level of sense of the events of Bayo 1. Maybe that's just me and I'm weird though.

Bayo 2's story on the other hand was even more of a cluster fuck than Bayo 1 and even I couldn't work it out. >_>

MagnusDJL posted...

After playing Bayonetta 1 I recall being able to make some level of sense of the events of Bayo 1. Maybe that's just me and I'm weird though.

Bayo 2's story on the other hand was even more of a cluster fuck than Bayo 1 and even I couldn't work it out. >_>

At the end of Bayo 1 I was just like so Jeanne is actually a brainwashed good guy? The girl is herself form the past that has been sent to the future so she can inspire herself to activate a power? So Bayonetta was inspired to not be sealed away and awakened the eye, which also awakened the eye just now although what we were affecting was child Bayonetta and the eye was activated as an adult later? Is that an alternate timeline? This dude is her dad? Why does he even want to unite the trinity of realities? Did the left eye help Bayonetta do anything in the final battle? etc.

And that was just the ending. During the whole game I was like "wtf is even happening?" lol. In Bayo 2 it's just 1) get to hell to save Jeanne and 2) help Loki get to the mountain. I guess I can see confusion when they drop the "Loptr killed your mom and the angels tricked Balder into starting the war, then pulled Balder into the future to start the plot, which is actually his past before the events of the first game." But the general events is very straightforward, especially because you have specific goals. In Bayo 1 it's basically about figuring out wtf is even happening, and all of it is dumped on your ass by Balder.

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I was also more ready for borderline nonsense shenanagins in 2 because of 1 lol.

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Well I got the platinum trophy for everything but witch trial V. That and beating Rodin are the last things on my list and I'll probably be done with the game for good.

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I just beat Rodin in Bayo 2. This just leaves Witch Trial V and I'll have done everything I wanted in the game. Hopefully with the strategies I'm using it'll be platinum in the first successful attempt, but we'll see.

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