Current Events > I hate when JRPGs pretend to give you choices

(+) Yeah! (+)

Do X?

Yes
No, but actually yes

Are there any that actually let you choose ridiculous answers that end the plot or at least dramatically change it?

One of the Harvest Moon games lets you refuse to inherit the farm if you keep saying No. The credits roll and everything.

Persona 4 lets you join Adache and become the bad guy

You can refuse to let Kid join your party in Chrono Cross. She asks you like ten times before she gives up, so it initially seems like a "fake choice" thing.


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so what happens when you refused to let kid join your party? does the game continue without her?

Skip the intro on Fractured But Whole.
Do it!

You can refuse to save the world at the beginning of Super Paper Mario and get a game over before the game even officially begins, IIRC.

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SMT/Persona has a reputation for multiple/bad endings, sometimes before you even name the protagonist. I'm not going to be more specific than that.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuByMZzLxpM

weeb98 posted...

so what happens when you refused to let kid join your party? does the game continue without her?

Actually it winds up being the better choice.

You get Leena and Mojo, and a chance to get Kid later.

But you can actually refuse to ever have her join you.


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Fire Emblem 3 Houses did this very annoyingly.

"Well teach, should we break North and attack these bastards, or go South and shore up our defenses?"
"North."
"Well that's a great idea, but the South really needs some help. Let's go there."
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social meter for persona annoys me more

>pick the wrong answer and our relationship isn't gonna level up and you can try again tomorrow for a new scene!

"but but 100+ hours of gameplay!!"

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And WRPGs are so much better because of choices!

[donate all your gold to orphanage]
[do nothing]
[burn down orphanage]

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TerminusEdge posted...

You can refuse to save the world at the beginning of Super Paper Mario and get a game over before the game even officially begins, IIRC.

You also get a choice at the end of TTYD that can end in a non-standard game over.

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Veggeta X posted...

And WRPGs are so much better because of choices!

[donate all your gold to orphanage]
[do nothing]
[burn down orphanage]

The best RPGs let you do all of the above, in any order, any number of times.

Veggeta X posted...

And WRPGs are so much better because of choices!

[donate all your gold to orphanage]
[do nothing]
[burn down orphanage]

these are the best kinda choices, tbh

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DarkRoast posted...

Actually it winds up being the better choice.

You get Leena and Mojo, and a chance to get Kid later.

But you can actually refuse to ever have her join you.

isnt she a huge part of the story? i didnt finish the game btw, all i know is that shes shown on pretty much anything chrono cross related so i thought shes like the tifa of the game and would affect the game greatly if shes not in it

weeb98 posted...

so what happens when you refused to let kid join your party? does the game continue without her?

Leena will join and Kid will join later.
weeb98 posted...

isnt she a huge part of the story? i didnt finish the game btw, all i know is that shes shown on pretty much anything chrono cross related so i thought shes like the tifa of the game and would affect the game greatly if shes not in it

she will join no matter the choices, it's a question of when.

refuse to join kid: got Leena
refuse to save kid: got Glenn instead of korcha(?).

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I used tothink that my life was a tragedy. But now I realize, its a comedy

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Are you ready to get going?
Yes.
No.
>No
Come on stop joking, let's go.
Yes.
No.
>No
Come on stop joking, let's go.
Yes.
No.
>No
Come on stop joking, let's go.

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philsov posted...

Fire Emblem 3 Houses did this very annoyingly.

"Well teach, should we break North and attack these bastards, or go South and shore up our defenses?"
"North."
"Well that's a great idea, but the South really needs some help. Let's go there."

Particularly annoying in that some of the choices actually do have major ramifications

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literally every dialogue choice in Pokemon

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Veggeta X posted...

And WRPGs are so much better because of choices!

[donate all your gold to orphanage]
[do nothing]
[burn down orphanage]

Still better than no options-- but the better games give rewards for the evil options that will make some people think about them.

Or, if we're talking well written stuff, there are morally grey quests & plotlines. See Fallout New Vegas or the Witcher 3 for example. Or Witcher 2, for that matter, where the entire middle third of the game splits down different paths (and each path has a couple of different choices as well) that are really, really different.

Having a choice is an illusion all around. A morality system is dumb.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuByMZzLxpM

Dammit, I was gonna post that one.

...

King Dragon sends his regards.

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I can understand why games have fake choices though. If they had real choices you'd pretty much have to write an entirely new story for each path. That's additional development time and resources.

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geshkigal posted...

King Dragon sends his regards.

Archibald, NO!!!

Nier Automata does this well. Theres a lot of different endings for doing obscure choices.

Then theres a couple one off gags in Paper Mario TTYD.

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Not only does Super Paper Mario give you a choice to end the game right at the beginning, but so does Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

When you are fighting the Shadow Queen, I believe when she is still possessing Princess Peach, she gives Mario the choice to join her, and if you make him say yes, she will make Mario her servant for eternity and take over the world. Results in a Game Over, but still, TTYD has a bad ending.

I'm actually surprised Nintendo would let there a choice to make Mario evil, you would think they wouldn't approve of any decisions that would have Mario be the bad guy (as he hasn't been given the role since DKJr and DK Circus).

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8VefV3DO8

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DarkRoast posted...

Are there any that actually let you choose ridiculous answers that end the plot or at least dramatically change it?

Paper Mario TTYD

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DarkRoast posted...

Are there any that actually let you choose ridiculous answers that end the plot or at least dramatically change it?

Front Mission 3.
the first option where you go hang out with your best friend or not will drastically change the story.

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Greenfox111 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8VefV3DO8

XMFD at how hard it rubs it in at the end

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But thou must!

PatrickMahomes posted...

literally every dialogue choice in Pokemon

To this day Im upset about the guy on the Nugget Bridge asking if you want to join Team Rocket.

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Shin Megami Tensei games definitely buck this trend. In several games, each choice you make actually affects your hidden alignment, which ultimate affects how the game plays out in the end.

Shin Megami Tensei IV was notorious for this, because it was way too easy to put yourself on Law or Chaos because the window for getting Neutral was extremely small, so much so that you actually had to watch how you answered dialogue strings throughout the game until the alignment lock. However, SMT4 also had a fourth ending where you can literally wipe out existence.

The sequel did away with alignment-changing choices, and made it so you can outright choose what path to take when it comes up. You can even prematurely end the game by picking the Law or Chaos paths. You can also end the game at the very start when Dagda offers to revive you after getting killed, and you refuse him.

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I always just assume they ran out of time/money to implement the alternative choice so they just threw in a text box from your buddy that says "You can't be serious!" because it was even cheaper than undoing the choice prompt.

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Golden sun would give you a bad ending if you chose not to embark on your world saving adventure.

First dragon quest had the same thing if you chose to join the dragon Lord.

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Solar_Crimson posted...

Shin Megami Tensei games definitely buck this trend. In several games, each choice you make actually affects your hidden alignment, which ultimate affects how the game plays out in the end.

Shin Megami Tensei IV was notorious for this, because it was way too easy to put yourself on Law or Chaos because the window for getting Neutral was extremely small, so much so that you actually had to watch how you answered dialogue strings throughout the game until the alignment lock. However, SMT4 also had a fourth ending where you can literally wipe out existence.

The sequel did away with alignment-changing choices, and made it so you can outright choose what path to take when it comes up. You can even prematurely end the game by picking the Law or Chaos paths. You can also end the game at the very start when Dagda offers to revive you after getting killed, and you refuse him.

In IV, when you die and go to the underworld, you can get a game over by declining to bribe Charon and just getting into the impossibly long line to cross the River Styx. If you have previously bribed Charon without paying him in the meantime, he forces you to get in line, also triggering a game over.

Ogre Battle 64 has a few dialogue prompts, and two in particular are quite interesting.
When Hugo names Magnus commander, Dio gets mad and challenges Magnus to a duel. Whatever option you pick, Hugo appears and breaks it up(scolding you for being an idiot if you agree to fight or praising your maturity for refusing).
Towards the end of Chapter 1, youre confronted with choosing between two options during an important story event:
1) I cant
2 .....
This is a vitally important choice.
If you pick option 1 Magnus frees Frederick and Dio joins him in rebellion. If you pick option 2, Dio cuts Frederick free and orders Magnus to take him to safety. If you chose to fight Dio earlier, he abandons Magnus after this and eventually reappears in Chapter 4 as an enemy commander.

Devil Survivor 2 did this amazingly well actually. Most party members have a rescue quest where you have to go and save them, and depending on how late you decide to go and save them, those party members could just straight up die and be gone for the rest of the story.

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CapnMuffin posted...

Nier Automata does this well. Theres a lot of different endings for doing obscure choices.

yeah Nier is pretty good about it. I never got them all cause they wouldn't always trigger for me, but still, they were done well.

ChrisTaka posted...

Devil Survivor 2 did this amazingly well actually. Most party members have a rescue quest where you have to go and save them, and depending on how late you decide to go and save them, those party members could just straight up die and be gone for the rest of the story.

Good one. The first one also had it where you could end up getting important party members and NPCs killed by not getting to the objective in time or failing the main objective during a battle (such as one of your party members killing the vampire Kudlak or letting him escape, instead of letting Kresnik!Mari deal the finishing blow to him). Some of these can also lock you out of certain endings.

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The best one is still Custom Robo, where you can refuse to save the world and it gives you a game over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcSRgfpP9ko

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Questionmarktarius posted...

Archibald, NO!!!

>picks greeting

Hey...

Fucker. I'm gonna kill your whole family for fun

But personally lul I don't play the asshole routes in any game so I find WRPGs to be about 1/3 the value it should be to others

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PiOverlord posted...

Not only does Super Paper Mario give you a choice to end the game right at the beginning, but so does Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

When you are fighting the Shadow Queen, I believe when she is still possessing Princess Peach, she gives Mario the choice to join her, and if you make him say yes, she will make Mario her servant for eternity and take over the world. Results in a Game Over, but still, TTYD has a bad ending.

I'm actually surprised Nintendo would let there a choice to make Mario evil, you would think they wouldn't approve of any decisions that would have Mario be the bad guy (as he hasn't been given the role since DKJr and DK Circus).

This is probably wrong, but there is no way Nintendo saw the full game before they released it lol. Allowing that ending to be in the game, having a fucking noose be the first thing you see in Rogueport, getting robbed for all your cash in the first few mins, the fucking Mafia runs the west end, there was just a lot of dark shit you dont see in Mario games before or after that games release.

Also dark relative to Nintendo lol

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SF_Okami posted...

This is probably wrong, but there is no way Nintendo saw the full game before they released it lol. Allowing that ending to be in the game, having a fucking noose be the first thing you see in Rogueport, getting robbed for all your cash in the first few mins, the fucking Mafia runs the west end, there was just a lot of dark shit you dont see in Mario games before or after that games release.

Also dark relative to Nintendo lol

I never played Super Paper Mario but i heard it was darker (or at least had darker moments) than TTYD.

Like if you had a darkness scale, every nintendo game would be a 0/10, ttyd would be a 1/10, spm would be a 2/10, oot would be a 3/10 and then majoras mask would be like a 5

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DarthDemented posted...

First dragon quest had the same thing if you chose to join the dragon Lord.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-u-bq-CXz4

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Super Paper Mario has a question where you are asked to save the world or something and if you say no the game ends and you have to start all over. Got trolled hard there, it was like 25 minutes in and there was no save yet.

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