Current Events > Anyone Wanna Smash?

(+) Yeah! (+)

You didn't provide any pics. How am I supposed to know whether I wanna smash or not?

AceAttorneyist posted...

It's all good, you're allowed to not like being spiked as much as I enjoy spiking lol. I'm sure you've received many complaints about the ZSS down b to up b kill confirm and I'm sure you're happy when you're able to hit it.

I will say that even though Falcon can 2 frame with dair, I wouldn't say it's completely safe. If you do it too late and they've already grabbed ledge you usually eat a free punish from an aerial off ledge. Doing too early probably doesn't incur much risk, but you do give up your ability to cover other options by committing to the 2 frame attempt, such as roll from ledge since you'll be nowhere near that space. Then again, everything has a counter

haha absolutely. I do get so much joy out of the stun up b, or nair flip kick. Different perspectives. You're right, it's like, if you do for the dair, it closes other options such as a ledge trap. So if you miss, I can roll in and then have the advantage.

All good man, thanks for the discussion. Down to play tonight or later this week if anyone is free.

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DDirtyDastard posted...

You didn't provide any pics. How am I supposed to know whether I wanna smash or not?

lmao
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anttttt posted...

my only problem with pichu is that the risk vs reward is skewed. he's obviously still a high tier character but there's no real reason to use him over pikachu who's easily a top 3 fighter

if i had to choose any reverts it'd just be a reduction on thunder jolt's damage so he can't be camped so hard. forcing pichu to approach is a good way to get free damage without even hitting him

Oh yeah the difference between Pichu and Pikachu is actually crazy. Not only in obvious things having a weight difference of 17 units and self damage but also hurtbox (https://twitter.com/Tilted_as_fuck/status/1217512840753491969), hitboxes and range:
https://ultimateframedata.com/pichu.php
https://ultimateframedata.com/pikachu.php
in particular the hitbox on skull bash is atrocious and Pichu's overall range is abysmal, being able to freely use tjolt and having a hitbox on quick attack completely changes a lot of MUs and other things.

As for tier placement and exactly how good Pichu is, that I do not know. I've only really been playing the character for 2-3 weeks but the guys I've been talking to are pretty pessimistic about him. Like they think the character is upper mid tier that's only going to slide down. I know RFang, PGR Pichu player, thinks Pichu has 21 potential losing MUs and sits in the low end of high tier, he thinks most people don't know the MU and don't SDI/DI accordingly.

I think adjusting Pichu's hitboxes, making him slightly faster since he's not actually fast like people think since he sits at 25th in run speed, 30th initial dash, 45th air speed and while he has pretty good air acceleration and fall speed the developers gave him the same fast fall multiplier he had in melee so he has almost the exact fast fall speed as a floatier Pikachu and Mewtwo at 45th. Less recoil damage since Pichu will take somewhere between 100% and 200% in self damage depending on how campy the opponent plays. Giving Pichu a reliable kill option, doesn't have to be to the same level of pre-patch ftilt but given how poorly Pichu's moves scale in knockback, most of the cast won't die to bair, ftilt, fair, dash attack until 150+% if they stay center stage, and how easily most of the cast kills him off stray aerials and tilts I think it would be fair. Make his recovery being less prone to being 2 framed since it puts you offstage and you take damage for trying to make it back.

Those, imo, sound like fair adjustments that won't put Pichu back to pre-patch levels but would help the character out since he's suppose to be a glass cannon that's probably more glass than cannon at this point.

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Pichu's huge, it's bizarre. It's almost like the character was just not a good idea to implement in the first place if they have to resize and adjust his body and posture so much, but what do I know

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viewmaster_pi posted...

Pichu's huge, it's bizarre. It's almost like the character was just not a good idea to implement in the first place if they have to resize and adjust his body and posture so much, but what do I know

according to your posts, the entire cast is a balance disaster that needs a sledgehammer nerfs and reworks, even the bad characters

HannibalBarca3 posted...

Those, imo, sound like fair adjustments that won't put Pichu back to pre-patch levels but would help the character out since he's suppose to be a glass cannon that's probably more glass than cannon at this point.

i agree that pichu is in a "marth situation" but i don't think dramatically buffing him is reasonable when he's an upper mid-tier at the absolute worst (i think only size and t-jolt self-damage buffs are reasonable)
i think a size reduction is reasonable, but a mobility buff is just a huge universal buff to everything the character does even if they decide to keep him as the ultimate glass canon

but who knows, with how nintendo keeps buffing the shotos for no reason pichu has a chance

not really sure why i'm put on blast like that, i'm just saying it's ridiculous for a literal baby pokemon's head alone to be as massive as it is compared to what it evolves into

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heck, even just giving Pichu a hitbox on the quick attack like Pikachu has would probably go a long way. You of course want differences for the characters, but not to the point where one is objectively better than the other (as ant mentioned, Marth vs Lucina). Tough character to balance for sure.

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Do you guys play about every night? Im not great by any stretch of the imagination, but I would like to improve some. I mostly use Duck Hunt and Pirahna Plant. (I dont have the ethernet adapter though, in case thats a dealbreaker)

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viewmaster_pi posted...

Pichu's huge, it's bizarre. It's almost like the character was just not a good idea to implement in the first place if they have to resize and adjust his body and posture so much, but what do I know

Pichu is the 12th tallest character IIRC. Mostly because those ears are huge and you also have the spiky ear variant so she's even taller than the standard Pichu. Pre-patch Pichu didn't have a hurtbox that almost covered the whole ears so it wasn't much of a problem.

Anyways those are my thought on the character since ant brought the subject up. I still think the character is good if not decent despite how fragile the character is. It just leaves a sour feeling how pretty much every other top tier contender like Lucina, Joker, Snake, Palutena and ZSS got pretty mild and fair nerfs and Pikachu got a buff lmao. In fact Palutena went up in most tier lists post-nerfs. Olimar also got shafted due to shield issues but Olimar at least still has disjoints and pikmen to throw at people. Pichu actually has to commit due to poor range and self-damage as well as being very light, the difference between Puff and Pichu in weight is the same as Mario and Yoshi. Pichu having a broken shield for 8 months (https://twitter.com/Tilted_as_fuck/status/1202076212358717447) is just terrible. Add to the fact that Pichu's current hitboxes were made for his old hurtbox and it just makes the balance team look kinda bad. If anything I just want them to adjust Pichu's hitboxes but I doubt they'll do anything due to the stigma attached to Pichu like getting lumped with Pikachu in a lot of MU charts or as "the rats", people thinking Pichu is a Pikachu clone but slightly worse or people just not understanding Pichu's shortcomings and PTSD from pre-patch Pichu.

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Wouldn't be surprised if Yoshi is one of the tallest. Every time a match begins I'm always surprised at how tall Yoshi is compared to the character I'm going against.
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I had no idea Pichu wastaller than Pikachu post-patch, that's fucking crazy. I always assumed he was still shorter but I don't follow vods of the character besides some of the Rat ones

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Do you guys play about every night? Im not great by any stretch of the imagination, but I would like to improve some. I mostly use Duck Hunt and Pirahna Plant. (I dont have the ethernet adapter though, in case thats a dealbreaker)

we play a lot but not every day

i personally have a high lag tolerance and only really mind if games are laggy to extremes

I might try to join in for a couple games at some point then. It seems like you just use room codes? Ive only played with randoms online up til this point, so I dont really know how its set up,

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I might try to join in for a couple games at some point then. It seems like you just use room codes? Ive only played with randoms online up til this point, so I dont really know how its set up,

Instead of going to quick play, find the Arenas option and then something like Join Arena and then enter a code (3rd option). Its easy. You may have to set up after you get into the lobby though if you havent done it before. Pick a stage and character in the right hand bottom corner. We usually play on tournament legal stages, but you dont have to. I would just avoid really bogus stages though; no crazy stage hazards and no extremely large stages.

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God damn pojr killing it on stram

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HannibalBarca3 posted...

God damn pojr killing it on stram

thanks man! and for the gifted sub too.

I was definitely surprised by my win against Eternal's Daisy. Seemed like the odds were stacked against me, cuz (1) I'm on stream and (2) I'm not familiar with the Peach/Daisy matchup. When he was on his last stock, I was like "oh fuck, here's where I'm going to mess it all up" but I breathed in and out and tried to calm down. I would have been happy only winning 1 game, but taking the whole set was super nice.

Got destroyed by Limee's Cloud. He was definitely very good, didn't expect him to be so offensive. He went right in. He punished my shield, and did a good job keeping me off the stage. He definitely outplayed me for sure. It was some good experience though.

Currently in losers. Looking at the bracket, I might rematch OVA9k. That would be nice since our first game was pretty close.

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How do i watch pojrs matches?

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They're past his but I'll link his once the respawn stream is done.

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JTilly posted...

How do i watch pojrs matches?

heres my one from earlier

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/621193080?t=0h45m5s

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im on stream right now if you wanna watch. fighting a greninja

https://www.twitch.tv/wumbo_official

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