Current Events > The Dragonlord in the original Dragon Quest...

(+) Yeah! (+)

For those unaware there are different translations of the original DQ.
In one, Dragonlord is named as such because hes an evil wizard who can access a dragon form to wreak havoc.
In the other, hes a lowly villain skulking around in a cave, and kicks a ball. A dragon starts playing fetch with him and becomes his faithful pet, sort of like Cartman and Cthulhu in South Park.

either way, he uses his dragon pet or dragon form to take over the kingdom before the start of the game. Which origin story do you prefer?

I like the Pet Dragon one a lot more, seems more in-line with that OG dragon ball vibe the games seemed to be going for, a bit goofier but still serious. Also makes more sense of the final boss, DragonLord doesnt just transform, his pet dragon comes to his aid and fights you. I believe this final boss was the reason for the change in most localized versions.


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discodancer77 posted...

OG dragon ball vibe the games seemed to be going for

Literally just the art

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Literally just the art

I mean like the silly-whimsical nature of the games. Especially the first 3 games. They dont take themselves seriously at all

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The games are pretty wacky.

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I really thought Id get more discussion going with this

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DQ1 is not a game many of us westerners have played

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Blue_Inigo posted...

DQ1 is not a game many of us westerners have played

hmm, didnt really consider that.

for those wondering I would reccomend the fan translated SNES remake. I heard the iOS version would be a good option now too. DQ 1 is like a 6-8 hour game including grinding so you might as well experience it

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Blue_Inigo posted...

DQ1 is not a game many of us westerners have played

The Nintendo Power promotion back in the day says differently.

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jumi posted...

The Nintendo Power promotion back in the day says differently.

You're gonna have hard luck finding a bunch of people here interested in a niche rpg from the late 80s.

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Haven't played it in a long time, but I think originally the Dragonlord summons the dragon.

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I think Dragon Quest Builders retcons it all into suggesting that the Dragon Lord was indeed a rather powerful figure in his own right.

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Dragon quest 3 had an endgame thing where you could scale a tower and fight a dragon at the top to grant you wishes, so the Dragonball influence wasn't just the art

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I only played Dragon Warrior 1 + 2

I remember really wanting to play 3 after trying it on a friend's gameboy.

I played DQ 1 long before I knew Japanese or lived in Japan and I know many other who did as well (it was called Dragon Warrior in America at the time though). I certainly believe younger people in the West haven't played it though. If you weren't a kid when the NES was big, you probably never bothered with such a primitive RPG.

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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

I think Dragon Quest Builders retcons it all into suggesting that the Dragon Lord was indeed a rather powerful figure in his own right.

This, and it makes for a better story. Otherwise he's just Hargon. One of the key canon points in the DQ universe is the concept of the Demon Lord, a creature of evil so twisted that even otherwise friendly monsters turn aggressive. Every main line game plays to this trope. For the Dragon Lord to just be a weird dude with an extremely powerful pet would be way out of character for the series.

discodancer77 posted...

I mean like the silly-whimsical nature of the games. Especially the first 3 games. They dont take themselves seriously at all

This isn't true at all lol. The first 4 games were all pretty serious, almost to a grim/dark level, especially 3 and 4. It was before the series took on its more colorful and flamboyant nature. Later re-releases often featured completely altered dialogue that was more like the modern games (ugh, especially the DS version of 4 with its ridiculous "accents").
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I've played it and I prefer the transformation to the pet. I personally think it's more epic. The insane grinding and difficulty spikes in the game be damned.

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I always found this to be interesting topic. It's so strange how the Japanese and English versions differ. It isn't because of a translation error between manuals so much, but mostly because the player's handbook took liberties.

https://imgur.com/mLaHDwJ
This is the handbook that Nintendo Power gave away. This is where the Dragonlord being monster tamer comes from. He discovers a dragon in the cave and realizes he can control it. The guide also goes on to say Dragonlord attacked Breconnary and set much of it on fire when he infiltrated Alefgard to steal the Ball of Light. It goes on to say the Hero arrived the next day. Either Breconnary is really quick to rebuild and not say anything about the attack or this is all fluff made up. It also says the Dragonlord rode around on a Red Dragon which we see in the game. Nothing about the special dragon at the end.

The entire point of this is to make a really good story which is why it goes into specifics about the quest and then ends on the Hero leaving Alefgard to find his own kingdom, talks about the attack on Moonbrook in the future and of the Hero's descendants. It's just a fun story rather than a back-of-the-box summary to entice readers into picking up the next installment.

https://imgur.com/O8NApVA
This is the English instruction booklet. Some things to point out are how Erdrick (Roto in the Japanese booklet) was given the Ball of Light by a "friend", several towns were rumored to have been destroyed and much time had passed for a seer to make a prophecy that a descendant of Erdrick would arrive and several other adventures had tried to defeat the Dragonlord.

We already have some difference between two English sources (the booklet and the handbook). The hero didn't just appear the follow day after the Dragonlord's attack and nobody is sure towns were destroyed or attacked. These specific points show that there isn't a consensus between two English sources that someone would have read when first acquiring the game in the U.S.

https://imgur.com/qkZyKIg
This is also in the English instruction booklet. Check out the last tidbit. "Long, long ago the hero Erdrick defeated the Dragonlord..." Do what now? This states Erdrick already beat the Dragonlord and the opening of the booklet (the prior picture) talks of how Erdrick fought an "evil being" and saved the kingdom. Basically, the Dragonlord has done this violence before and now he's back. That's different than the handbook suggests of when the Dragonlord first appeared right before the game starts.

https://imgur.com/AyLTIva
This is the Japanese manual translated. Noticeable mentions are Roto (Erdrick) fought a Demon King, the Ball of Light was given to him by God, the Dragon King (Dragonlord) is an avatar of the Devil, rumors of destroyed towns and years have passed until the Hero arrives.

There are some changes between the English and Japanese instruction booklets and some similarities. God and the Devil weren't going to fly in the U.S. at this time so it's understandable why this was changed although the English version is funny with how Erdrick acquires the Ball of Light from a "friend." Hey, maybe he was best buds with God. Again, rumors of towns destroyed so the handbooks talk of Brecconary doesn't line up nor does the passage of time.

Something way different is that the Dragon King/Lord is an avatar of the Devil, presumably what Erdrick fought long ago. That explains the strange bit in the English booklet about how Erdrick fought the Dragonlord long ago. If the Dragon King/Lord is an avatar of the same being, it fits and makes sense.

https://imgur.com/vy7Iodi
The hint page in the Japanese instruction booklet. It's mostly the same as the English version with a key difference: it does not say Roto (Erdrick) fought the Dragon King/Lord before, but the Demon King. It means The Demon King and Dragon King are not the same entity. Think of the Dragon King like a manifestation trying to return but in a different form.

https://imgur.com/lEmCxSK
Last is what happens in the actual game. Defeat the humanoid Dragonlord and this happens: "The Dragonlord revealed his true self!"

The game makes it clear the Dragonlord has a humanoid form and a dragon form. The instruction booklets (both Japanese and English) talk about him just as an evil entity with the Japanese booklet saying he's the manifestation of the bygone Demon King now returned in a new form. It's the handbook that embellishes the story for the sake of entertainment. It's fun to read, but it's riddled with contradictions to both forms of the instruction booklets and the game itself.

My pick for the topic question is an ancient evil with enough power to return once again long after his rival has died albeit in a different (and weakened) form and can transform into a dragon. Of course, this makes the sequel have its own discussion about the Dragonlord's grandson.

And, yeah, I went through all this because I was bored. >_<

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Erdrick defeated the Demon King without even the benefit of clothing but has difficulties with common ghosts? The fuck?

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So_Hajile posted...

*snip*

Thank you for this! I love picking up new bits of Dragon Quest lore, especially the Erdrick saga game.

Interesting that you mention the Dragon Lord's grandson. One thing that's always stood out in my mind is that the third games suggests the Dragon Lord is the egg laid by the Dragon Queen who gives you the Ball Of Light which you need to defeat Zoma. This has always made me view the Dragon Lord as very different from the later game Demon Lords, who all have very otherworldly origin stories. My guess is the Dragon Lord is exactly what it says on the tin, the hereditary king of dragonkind.
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I recently played through 1-3 on my phone. Still need to beat 6 to have beaten all the NA ones, but this topic makes me want to pony up the 20 bucks to get it on my phone.

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fire_bolt posted...

Thank you for this! I love picking up new bits of Dragon Quest lore, especially the Erdrick saga game.

Interesting that you mention the Dragon Lord's grandson. One thing that's always stood out in my mind is that the third games suggests the Dragon Lord is the egg laid by the Dragon Queen who gives you the Ball Of Light which you need to defeat Zoma. This has always made me view the Dragon Lord as very different from the later game Demon Lords, who all have very otherworldly origin stories. My guess is the Dragon Lord is exactly what it says on the tin, the hereditary king of dragonkind.

Glad you enjoyed it. :)

There's been discussions here and at the Dragon's Den forums about two things in regards to Dragon Quest III.

1. What's in the egg---the Dragonlord or Malroth (from Dragon Quest II)?
2. When defeated, Zoma mentions another will follow and usher in darkness. Who is it?

Like you, I think the egg contained the Dragonlord. It's from the Dragon Queen and when you check back later, a soldier says something from the egg hatched and flew into the hole. Granted, Malroth could fly but then you've got the whole explanation of where he was and why Hargon had to summon him...simpler answer is it was the Dragonlord.

I think some people connect the egg to Malroth because Zoma mentions the world will be plunged into darkness again and Malroth seems similar to a Demon Lord like Zoma. Also, Erdrick would not be around when he arrived. Again, I think it's the Dragonlord he's referring to. After all, in every booklet it does talk about how the Ball of Light is what creates the peace and prosperity in Alefgard by keeping the monsters away. The Dragonlord steals it and things turn bad, but also the booklets both talk about how doing so plunges the world into darkness. Malroth is summoned, but doesn't get time to do anything. As for Hargon, he does destroy Moonbrooke and summon Malroth, but that's it. To be fair, the Ball of Light doesn't come into play and there are monsters everywhere so it begs the question if Hargon did something with it. I'm wanting to say it's talked about how he's responsible for the monsters, but maybe it's a later translation I'm thinking of.

Some people take the timing of the "next evil" too literal by saying the Dragonlord is technically already in Alefgard right then and there so he must be referring to Malroth. My counter is that the Dragonlord still didn't do anything until 15 generations of kings have gone by so he's evidently not quick to act or the egg is not the Dragonlord we know of, but the ancestor. I mean, the Dragonlord does have a grandson by the time Dragon Quest II rolls around with the Hero's grandchildren. We could hypothesize that the Dragon folk's lifespans (under normal circumstances) aren't too different from humans. At the very least, he can have offspring.

And I agree about the Dragonlord being different from Zoma and the other Demon Lords. That's the irony is that the helpful ally turns out to bear the seeds of a future villain. The Japanese instruction booklet does say the Dragonlord is really a reincarnation / manifestation of the Demon King Erdrick fought (now known as Zoma), but that doesn't hold together when playing Dragon Quest III. It's fair to say the creators didn't really have any of that material mapped out at the time.

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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

I only played Dragon Warrior 1 + 2

I remember really wanting to play 3 after trying it on a friend's gameboy.

DQ 3 blows the first two out of the water

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Either or was fine with me. Was just glad to play the game.

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I actually run a forum game based on the original Dragon Warrior. Basically if you took mechanics from some of the newer games (mostly 3 and 9, the ones with the clearest defined class systems) and made it an MMO. I'm always looking for new players, particularly ones who enjoy Dragon Quest lore and/or enjoy role play. If this might be your thing check out the archived board where we used to play (I found a better hosting site but the old site has the start-of-game stuff) and the wiki:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dragon_quest_aeons/dqa-active-threads-f6/

https://dragon-quest-aeons.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Quest_Aeons_Wiki

We're still fairly early in the game (everyone is just now exploring Garinham, players are level 12 of 40) so please DM me if you think you'd enjoy playing. Time commitment is maybe 20 minutes 3 times a week since it is play-by-post style, meaning you drop in at a time good for you and post your commands. We've got a small but active Discord for game discussion
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Wow, that's cool! I'll definitely look into it. Thanks!

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I've only played the original NES copy, so I'm goinf with the first one.

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