Current Events > It's no coincidence that the best Nintendo systems have an F-Zero game.

(+) Yeah! (+)

SNES, GBA, 64, Cube
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Does SNES online for switch count?

DS?
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PowerOats posted...

Does SNES online for switch count?

Of course not

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PowerOats posted...

Does SNES online for switch count?

Yeshivot it does
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Musourenka posted...

DS?

DS was like a GBA if the GBA had awkward controls that every game insisted you use at some point despite it destroying the flow of gameplay and like a third as good of a library.

In fact, the #1 argument in support of the DS is that it is backwards compatible. Watch, it'll happen in this topic in response to this post.

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3DS and Switch are great, though.

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DevsBro posted...

DS was like a GBA if the GBA had awkward controls that every game insisted you use at some point despite it destroying the flow of gameplay and like a third as good of a library.

In fact, the #1 argument in support of the DS is that it is backwards compatible. Watch, it'll happen in this topic in response to this post.

The DS library shits all over the GBA one.

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Solar_Crimson posted...

The DS library shits all over the GBA one.

Hang on let me fet my stylus out so I can reply to your message

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Nah, DS library > GBA library.

EDIT: Outside of actually having Metroid games and the two good Golden Sun games, I am not seeing where the GBA library beats out the DS.
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The best ones have F-Zero *and* Metroid (DS aside).

I really can't fathom why they haven't asked Sega to remaster F-Zero GX in high definition with online play.

You left out the F-Zero game in Nintendo Land. The Wii U is Nintendo's best console.
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DevsBro posted...

Of course not

Does it count that two of the maps for F-Zero are in MK8?

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ArchiePeck posted...

I really can't fathom why they haven't asked Sega to remaster F-Zero GX in high definition with online play.

Probably because the studio that actually made the game was shut down long ago.

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gamecube lol
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It's probably a coincidence other than the GameCube one.
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Musourenka posted...

Nah, DS library > GBA library.

EDIT: Outside of actually having Metroid games and the two good Golden Sun games, I am not seeing where the GBA library beats out the DS.

+ 2 F-Zero games
+ 12 Mega Man games vs 5
+ Fire Emblem 7 and 8 >> Shadow Dragon
+ a dadgum Zone of the Enders game

DS does deserve a hand for having the only decent visual novel and adventure library short of PC but that's really a pretty small merit.

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garlic powder posted...

Does it count that two of the maps for F-Zero are in MK8?

Also no

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Musourenka posted...

EDIT: Outside of actually having Metroid games and the two good Golden Sun games, I am not seeing where the GBA library beats out the DS.

The GBA has my favorite library (between it and the DS, that is), but the DS's is clearly larger and more varied (and with plenty of quality), so I agree.

Aside from what you mentioned, my faves on the GBA are:

Legacy of Goku + Buu's Fury
Battle Network (mostly 2, 3 and 6; the DS has 5: Double Team DS)
Mega Man Zero (DS has a collection though)
Super Robot Taisen Original Generation 1/2 (both have a bunch of JP-only entries)

Castlevania can go either way. I'm a big fan of CotM and AoS, but the DS probably edges it overall.

Conflict posted...

64 isn't even top 5 in Nintendo systems

The games on the 64 set the standard for almost every major Nintendo series.

Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask. Super Mario 64. Mario Kart 64. Super Smash Bros. Mario Party.

Almost every current Nintendo title is a more-refined form of their original N64 versions.
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DevsBro posted...

In fact, the #1 argument in support of the DS is that it is backwards compatible. Watch, it'll happen in this topic in response to this post.

Damn son, you're really bringing the heat with this one.

I don't disagree with you though
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

The games on the 64 set the standard for almost every major Nintendo series.

Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask. Super Mario 64. Mario Kart 64. Super Smash Bros. Mario Party.

Almost every current Nintendo title is a more-refined form of their original N64 versions.

I mean technically Mario Kart started on the SNES and Zelda started on the NES as well as Mario.

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luigi13579 posted...

The best ones have F-Zero *and* Metroid (DS aside).

Well, yes, of those that have F-Zero, the best also have Metroid.

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I miss F-Zero so much.
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garlic powder posted...

I mean technically Mario Kart started on the SNES and Zelda started on the NES as well as Mario.

Yes, but their camera systems, play styles, format, etc. are based on their N64 versions.

If you played Ocarina of Time, you have a 90% understanding of how to play Breath of the Wild. The same isn't true for Link to the Past or Legend of Zelda (NES).
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Yes, but their camera systems, play styles, format, etc. are based on their N64 versions.

If you played Ocarina of Time, you have a 90% understanding of how to play Breath of the Wild. The same isn't true for Link to the Past or Legend of Zelda (NES).

I'll give you Mario 64 since it was pretty ground breaking with the 3D (and moves). Every main Mario after it has followed the path of 64.

Zelda: I mean...I feel like anyone who has played a video game lately can handle BOTW. There's nothing unique about the gameplay or style.


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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Almost every current Nintendo title is a more-refined form of their original N64 versions.

No shit. We haven't moved past 3D since then, why wouldn't they be?
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AlecSkorpio posted...

No shit. We haven't moved past 3D since then, why wouldn't they be?

I'm talking about specific designs and systems. Like I said above, Ocarina of Time and Breath of the Wild are like 90% similar in their combat and puzzle designs. Because Ocarina of Time did it perfectly the first time.
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well vr is a move passed 3d am i right?
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garlic powder posted...

Zelda: I mean...I feel like anyone who has played a video game lately can handle BOTW

I mean, yes, it's not a complex system by any means, but my point is that the same target/block/dodge/attack systems have been core to the Zelda series combat since OOT.
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3DS with DS backwards compatibility >>> DS with GBA backwards compatibility
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

AlecSkorpio posted...

No shit. We haven't moved past 3D since then, why wouldn't they be?

I'm talking about specific designs and systems. Like I said above, Ocarina of Time and Breath of the Wild are like 90% similar in their combat and puzzle designs. Because Ocarina of Time did it perfectly the first time.

No shit. Most games tend to play similar to their previous installments.

This has nothing to do with Nintendo or how great their games on the N64 were.
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AlecSkorpio posted...

This has nothing to do with Nintendo or how great their games on the N64 were.

It kind of does, though. Because these games are still hugely successful, and the first time they appeared in their current forms was on the N64. That basically makes the N64 the OG of every 3D Nintendo console to follow. It deserves a lot of credit.
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DevsBro posted...

Musourenka posted...

Nah, DS library > GBA library.

EDIT: Outside of actually having Metroid games and the two good Golden Sun games, I am not seeing where the GBA library beats out the DS.

+ 2 F-Zero games
+ 12 Mega Man games vs 5
+ Fire Emblem 7 and 8 >> Shadow Dragon
+ a dadgum Zone of the Enders game

DS does deserve a hand for having the only decent visual novel and adventure library short of PC but that's really a pretty small merit.

Okay, actual good Fire Emblems and I forgot about the Starforce and Battle Network games. I admit my DS library had about a dozen of those adventure/VN games at one point (4 Phoenix Wright, 3 Professor Layton, Trace Memory + Hotel Dusk + Last Window, Broken Sword, 999).

I am counting only 11 MM games though. 6 Battle Networks, MM&Bass, and Z1 through 4?
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

It kind of does, though. Because these games are still hugely successful, and the first time they appeared in their current forms was on the N64. That basically makes the N64 the OG of every 3D Nintendo console to follow. It deserves a lot of credit.

Literally all game series do this.

Grand Theft Auto Vice City, San Andreas, Liberty City Stories and Vice City stories all played like GTA III.

Call of Duty all played like Modern Warfare for like 7 entries. I'd argue even more but I'm sure someone will act like wall running really changed the dynamic or something.

Assassins Creed followed the same basic formula until Origins, and then Odyssey immediately followed up on the new refinement.

To act like only Nintendo games seem to follow a style or pattern is really fucking baffling to me. In fact, the very thing you're praising them for is something that people constantly complained about for the longest time.
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Musourenka posted...

I am counting only 11 MM games though. 6 Battle Networks, MM&Bass, and Z1 through 4?

Battle Chip Challenge, though thats not one to be proud of.
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AlecSkorpio posted...

In fact, the very thing you're praising them for is something that people constantly complained about for the longest time.

I think those people are wrong, incidentally. And yeah, most game series tend to stick to a familiar pattern, but my point is that they existed in one form (hugely successful on the NES and SNES,) then they became 3D, and the 3D jump was so huge and so well-executed that there were barely even any growing pains. The first time they tried to make good 3D games, they succeeded so well that they're still making them with the exact same basic framework over 20 years later.

Goldeneye is an example of what could have happened to all the others. It was functional, for its time, but the systems were clunky and needed a complete overhaul before we got to something like Halo or Call of Duty.
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Musourenka posted...

I am counting only 11 MM games though. 6 Battle Networks, MM&Bass, and Z1 through 4?

Listing Battlechip Challenge is kind of being obtuse but I did it anyway lol.
Musourenka posted...

I admit my DS library had about a dozen of those adventure/VN games at one point (4 Phoenix Wright, 3 Professor Layton, Trace Memory + Hotel Dusk + Last Window, Broken Sword, 999).

I'm something of a fan of the genre myself but they're more like nice bonuses.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Goldeneye is an example of what could have happened to all the others. It was functional, for its time, but the systems were clunky and needed a complete overhaul before we got to something like Halo or Call of Duty.

Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask also had clunky problems that were fixed in their 3DS versions.

Wind Waker had clunky issues that were fixed in the HD release.

Also, you're now jumping between game series to explain things. FPS games that came out during the same time as Goldeneye played differently from Goldeneye, and not every fucking game follows the same formula as Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time so what was the point of that comparison?
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AlecSkorpio posted...

Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask also had clunky problems that were fixed in their 3DS versions.

nani
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AlecSkorpio posted...

Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask also had clunky problems that were fixed in their 3DS versions.

Gonna need some citations here.

AlecSkorpio posted...

Also, you're now jumping between game series to explain things.

I offered Goldeneye as an example of a game from the era that didn't "nail it" the first time around. Games now don't play like Goldeneye, because Goldeneye was a transitional format that tried new things and, while they worked relative to the times, it didn't hold up especially well.

AlecSkorpio posted...

FPS games that came out during the same time as Goldeneye played differently from Goldeneye, and not every fucking game follows the same formula as Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time so what was the point of that comparison?

I think you may be missing my point entirely, actually.
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Wewillrocku posted...

gamecube lol

Yeah this. I don't consider the Gamecube one of Nintendo's best systems at all. I will give that it had some great games but not a whole ton of them. Very similar to the Wii U in that regard.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Gonna need some citations here.

Menu navigation and water temple come to mind right away.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I offered Goldeneye as an example of a game from the era that didn't "nail it" the first time around. Games now don't play like Goldeneye, because Goldeneye was a transitional format that tried new things and, while they worked relative to the times, didn't hold up especially well.

Where did Goldeneye "not nail it" exactly?

I'd also offer up Doom as the easy retort to the idea that FPS wasn't "nailed" the first go around.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I think you may be missing my point entirely, actually.

I don't think you realize how bad your point is, actually.
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the GBA is by far the worst nintendo handheld
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AlecSkorpio posted...

Where did Goldeneye "not nail it" exactly?

Single-stick control scheme with pinpoint aiming that made you stop moving, for starters. It's a major difference in feeling when you set it up alongside a shooter of today.

Compare Goldeneye to Call of Duty 4 and you'll get a completely different feel. Compare Call of Duty 4 to Medal of Honor, Battlefield, even more modern James Bond games, and they'll have an extremely similar style. Most shooters knock off Call of Duty, not Goldeneye, because Call of Duty got the formula right for console FPS games.

Meanwhile, Ocarina of Time is still the baseline blueprint for all Zelda and Zelda-esque games. Features and control concepts are sometimes added, but rarely removed, and you can trace the DNA of every 3D Zelda game back to control concepts that were introduced in Ocarina of Time.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Single-stick control scheme with pinpoint aiming that made you stop moving, for starters. It's a major difference in feeling when you set it up alongside a shooter of today.

1. That's a problem with the N64 controller.

2. There's a twin stick control scheme in the fucking game as long as you use two controllers.

Try again.
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AlecSkorpio posted...

Try again.

*Facepalm*

I think we've hit a brick wall here. Have a nice night.
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Also how can you argue that OoT is the baseline even today when Breath of the Wild came out 2 years ago?

How can you argue that Mario 64 has been the baseline when we went damn near 15 years without a game similar to it?
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