Board 8 > Is Super Castlevania IV a remake of Castlevania 1?

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you asked this question of those games they absolutely would get less than 10% no.

This is just one of those cases were the dumb common knowledge of the masses is winning but people with real standards (the elites you might say) understand the difference.
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Its too different to be a remake. Aside from the series elements, it bears little resemblance to the original.

Same intro, repeats a few of the bosses, same ending, same moment in time, same story, same name in Japan

Sounds pretty remake
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AxemRedRanger posted...

I don't recall the actual level layouts in 1 vs. 4 being even remotely similar. Which levels in 1 are supposed to correspond to which in 4?

Honestly speaking, the only things that come to mind are the castle's entrance (on the outside) and the hall on the inside, with the statues, and the torture chamber to some extent.
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HashtagSEP posted...

Official Castlevania timeline calls it a remake and that's all the thought I'm willing to put into it so it's good enough for me

JonThePenguin posted...

The IV numbering is only the case in America. In Japan it shares its title (Akumajou Dracula) with CV1, no number involved.

Looks like a, case closed to me, gentlemen. Good work.

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https://imgur.com/cg9H94n

Look at all that remakey goodness. In fact, forget remake. I'm not even convinced it's not the same game!

You lookin' good, Castlevania 1! You on Atkins?
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Maybe my memory is faulty, but I remember the levels once you actually get to the castle being the same order
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Epyo posted...

My definition of "remake" is strict:

It's a retelling of the same story. A specific moment, within that game universe's history, is being retold.

By that definition, yes, it's a remake. It's literally the same moment in history (1700 something right?) in the castlevania game universe.

(Disclaimer: it also can't be a "port" at all. If it's a port, that disqualifies it from being a remake. It needs entirely new art assets, there can't be some copied over or up-ressed.)

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There are also situations where you can call a game "basically a remake". But I think you need the word "basically" in there.

"Basically a remake" means a shocking number of similarities in gameplay, setting, characters, levels, world design, etc.

But these are always very much a matter of opinion, and very arguable either way.

I would say Link Between Worlds is "basically a remake" of Link to the Past. But the plot is so different that I wouldn't say it "is a remake" straight up. I mean, look at that new merge-with-walls mechanic. That ain't no remake.

But it's "basically a remake".

Sonic 2 I could see the argument that it's "basically a remake" of Sonic 1, but it's not great.

Super Mario 3 I could totally see the argument that it's "basically a remake" of Super Mario 1.

Link Between Worlds is a sequel. Takes place in the same world but different story, characters, dungeons, items, etc. Not even close to a remake.
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Less than 60% agreement and it's case closed to you guys huh

lol
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HashtagSEP posted...

Same intro, repeats a few of the bosses, same ending

So barely anything

, same moment in time, same story, same name in Japan

aaand irrelevant to the core experience
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pjbasis posted...

Less than 60% agreement and it's case closed to you guys huh

lol

I mean our bad I guess for going with evidence direct from Konami as opposed to looking for the board 8 consensus.

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No I'm going with evidence. You're just going off a data book.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Uhhh the level design is absolutely the same, just expanded on

Blatantly false
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I wonder if he got that from his ass again
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I mean obviously it being the same event in a timeline that's now well accepted is the main and probably only reason anyone considers it a remake.

If that's your criteria I can't fight you, but I really don't recognize that standard in this case. Not to mention if you made this poll out of any other (real) remake you'd probably get an over 90% yes rate. Zero Mission, Resident Evil, etc.
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redrocket posted...

There are differences in the plots of SMB 1 and 3 if you actually pay attention!

Depending on what you consider "the plot" this applies to SCIV vs Castlevania as well.

Like there are a lot of bosses and stages straight up not in the original Castlevania in any form or fashion. Is Simon Belmont killing the Ghost Dancers part of the plot to SCIV? There are also bosses with reduced importance/different representation in SCIV vs Castlevania-- the Medusa isn't even a real boss in SCIV for example.

I mean, the plot is so thin you could argue things like these are-- particularly if you consider Koopa Kids vs Bowser Clones an important plot difference, since there isn't a whole lot to the plot of SMB3 or SMB either. The only other difference in the plots is you save kings instead of random toads
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Mario 1 doesn't have a sentient sun either

checkmate
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pjbasis posted...

If you asked this question of those games they absolutely would get less than 10% no.

This is just one of those cases were the dumb common knowledge of the masses is winning but people with real standards (the elites you might say) understand the difference.

intellectual gamers rise up
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mean, the plot is so thin you could argue things like these are-- particularly if you consider Koopa Kids vs Bowser Clones an important plot difference, since there isn't a whole lot to the plot of SMB3 or SMB either. The only other difference in the plots is you save kings instead of random toads

also SMB takes place in just the Mushroom Kingdom, SMB3 goes to many kingdoms... also I think 3 is maybe referred to as taking place after Peach is rescued in the original somewhere so it would canonically be a sequel

very different situation !
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Isn't Peach actually not kidnapped until the very end of Mario 3 anyway?

I seem to recall her appearing throughout the game until the last world.
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I don't like that it's called "4" so I voted no even if it's probably a "yes" in all reality
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LeonhartFour posted...

Isn't Peach actually not kidnapped until the very end of Mario 3 anyway?

I seem to recall her appearing throughout the game until the last world.

Thats actually true

Shes kidnapped while youre doing the World 7 airship
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

so it would canonically be a sequel

very different situation !

Well my whole argument is canon is a stupid argument for considering remake vs sequel for a game series like this, at the point in time they were made-- plot matters in Castlevania now but not then so much. The "plot" was very clearly an afterthought for the games.

Like if you want canon to be the end all more power to you but there are very little similarities whatsoever between SCIV and Castlevania if you're not taking what information developers spoon feed you from external materials. Consider with a lot of these older games that the series defined plot and canon isn't really given in the games themselves and is given after the fact. Just taking what's given directly in the games, Super Mario World would be a remake of Super Mario Bros 3 by pretty much every definition that SCIV is of Castlevania.

It's a bastardization of the definition of remake at best. Definitely agree that any remake that isn't stretching this hard is pulling less than 10% in this poll.
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Super Mario World would be a remake of Super Mario Bros 3 by pretty much every definition that SCIV is of Castlevania.

uh I dont remember SMB3 taking place on an island of dinosaurs

I mean, Im not sure where I fall on this Castlevania situation, but it is at least the same dude at the same time going through the same place for the same goal which SMB3/SMW isnt.

SCIV feels like the game Castlevania 1 would be if it was made on the SNES, even if its not exactly a remake... the best comparison in my head is original LoZ / LttP rather than a straight up remake situation.
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So World 8 of SMB3 is a remake of SMB1 then
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

the best comparison in my head is original LoZ / LttP rather than a straight up remake situation.

...!!!!

And we've come full circle
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Well the canon of Castlevania is that Dracula's Castle is a manifestation of chaotic magic and takes a different form and a different place every time it appears so "Dracula's Castle" is not actually the same place in Castlevania vs Super Castlevania either, as the level designs are completely different.

Like it's not even "there are the same levels given a shiny coat of paint and then some extra ones"-- there is basically zero overlap in the level designs. (Which is why Jakyl's post was particularly annoying to read)
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Still a remake.
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what other games out there would it be debatable as to whether it's actually a remake or not

like you can devil's advocate argue for Mario 1/Mario 3 but there wouldn't be any real debate on that
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LeonhartFour posted...

what other games out there would it be debatable as to whether it's actually a remake or not

Probably none

And I'm pretty sure the only reason the debate exists is because of people just blindly accepting word on SCIV and the timeline of Castlevania only gaining relevance well after both games were made. (yes CV3 was confirmed prequel but you still didn't have a well established reverence for timeline yet)

If we wanna get technical on the canon front, I'd sooner say Castlevania and SCIV are a games that simultaneously existed in the canon at some point, then Castlevania was retroactively made non-canon by people tied to the development saying SCIV is how Castlevania really went because series story conventions are cleaner if you don't have Dracula rise so many times in the lifetime of Simon Belmont, but it's kinda pointless to make that argument anyway-- and I'm not seriously making that argument since you basically have to take statements on canon from the official sources and it would just be a technicality even if someone conceded that point (but why would they).

I mostly just don't think canon is very important for determining remake status with this game to begin with, as already said.
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pjbasis posted...

No I'm going with evidence. You're just going off a data book.

You're going with feels and we're going with reals, sorry mate
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LeonhartFour posted...

what other games out there would it be debatable as to whether it's actually a remake or not

like you can devil's advocate argue for Mario 1/Mario 3 but there wouldn't be any real debate on that

Kirbys Dream Land / Spring Breeze in Kirby Super Star
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Kirbys Dream Land / Spring Breeze in Kirby Super Star

There wouldn't be a debate there. There might be debate as to whether it's a remake or an enhanced port.
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Huh never realized this, I knew castlevania chronicles and dracula x were remakes of 1. Wait the snes had two remakes?
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SNES had 1 remake (SCV4) and 1 adaptation of Rondo with Dracula X

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