Current Events > Man found guilty of first-degree murder for booby trapping his shed...

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.kmov.com/illinois-man-convicted-in-booby-trap-shotgun-slaying/article_0ce33b73-8c06-5a86-b582-54d3fbfe3620.html

I feel like there's something that isn't being disclosed. If you go to conventional steps to ensure people can't get into your shed (warning them not to go in, locking the thing, nailing it shut), they go in anyway, and the last measure of defense is an automatic gun inside the shed, at some point to me that suggests that they did this to themselves. The worst danger is probably shooting yourself if you went into your shed in a hurry.

But, whatever, the chips fall where they may.
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mmm chips
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Chicken posted...

mmm chips

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*eats chips off floor*

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This is what Kevin from Home Alone grew up to be. Also if the dude was going there to still steal shit. He won his prize haha

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The guy would still be alive if he just didn't try to steal things from other people. If what the owner's lawyer said was true, the guy had plenty of warning.

Still, I'm a little iffy on booby traps like that. I'm all for defending one's property and feel it's ridiculous that doing so is considered wrong by many, but what if it was some dumb kid instead of an adult?
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A redneck claymore?

Aren't booby traps a war crime?
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I'm not sure how I feel about booby-traps meant to kill trespassers.

There are laws against booby traps, so fair on the ruling.

However, the other guy is responsible for setting off the trap by being a thieving piece of shit.
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I have a hard time feeling sorry for either party tbh

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I feel like jail time is suitable for it, but it really shouldnt count as murder when someone is taking their own time to illegally enter. That guy took the risk and got his reward. I dont think they should be legal considering all that can go wrong, but it seems pretty cut and dry in this case.

unfair; last
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I feel like there is more to this story that is intentionally being unreported.

You can't get a murder charge for someone was trespassing. That's impossible. It would be thrown out on appeal in weeks if a judge said that.

So there's clearly something that makes this case less juicy that the media is not telling you but I can't be asked to look up and go through the court documents, if they are even public yet
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Dragonblade01 posted...

I'm not sure how I feel about booby-traps meant to kill trespassers.

The reason I'm against it is because trespassers are often kids/teens and they're young and stupid and shouldn't die over the deal.

Mr Hangman posted...

Seems like that would be third-degree murder at worst. I don't see how you get first-degree out of that unless he specifically encouraged the victim to go in there.

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HasaDiga posted...

The reason I'm against it is because trespassers are often kids/teens and they're young and stupid and shouldn't die over the deal.

And also because they put first responders at risk (in general).
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Mr Hangman posted...

No, you can definitely murder a trespasser. Trespassing is not a license to kill.

Technically you're right but only hyperliterally.

If you believe the trespasser is trying to steal from you then killing them is not murder in the US.

And while I didn't specify that in my posts, it's clear that a trespasser trying to break into the shed is trying to steal.

There's a short list of justifications, which include being attacked, being robbed, stopping a rape and a few other things were lethal force is not illegal.

If someone breaks into your house and takes your money you are allowed to shoot them, if they die you commited no crime.

In the US anyway
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UnfairRepresent posted...

In the US anyway

It's state by state and in many states you have to have a "reasonable belief" that the intruder intends to cause bodily harm or death. In most states, stealing property isn't enough justification for lethal force.

Now obviously, anyone who shoots someone for stealing their stuff is going to argue that they "feared for their life", but
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Funny cause if i go to a police dept to steal something theyd probably shoot me.
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Anteaterking posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

In the US anyway

It's state by state and in many states you have to have a "reasonable belief" that the intruder intends to cause bodily harm or death. In most states, stealing property isn't enough justification for lethal force.

Now obviously, anyone who shoots someone for stealing their stuff is going to argue that they "feared for their life", but

That's because today's pathetic society says things like "It's just stuff!" when they aren't just taking your things. They're taking your sense of security.

"Im only here to invade your property and take your property. You cant stop me!"
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This article seems like an extended version of the one TC linked

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/chester-man-convicted-in-booby-trap-murder/article_deda3875-c80b-559e-b9c3-4c91f0852055.html
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UnfairRepresent posted...

You can't get a murder charge for someone was trespassing. That's impossible. It would be thrown out on appeal in weeks if a judge said that.

So there's clearly something that makes this case less juicy that the media is not telling you but I can't be asked to look up and go through the court documents, if they are even public yet

He didn't claim self defense for one thing. He claimed not to have set it up a all. Booby traps also don't typically fall under self defense claims anyway since there's no immediate danger to life or property.
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I get why everyone is upset here, I was at first too. But since it was a spring gun he can't argue he was in danger and that's why he had to kill the man. The gun was set up to kill intruders, whether it was some irresponsible teenagers or a murdering invader.
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Setting a booby trap could probably also be argued as premeditation.
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justaguy3492 posted...

I get why everyone is upset here, I was at first too. But since it was a spring gun he can't argue he was in danger and that's why he had to kill the man. The gun was set up to kill intruders, whether it was some irresponsible teenagers or a murdering invader.

Maybe what should be said is the trap should have been non-lethal (like a camera that flashes in the intruder's face immediately upon opening the door).

...

Or a flash bang.
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HasaDiga posted...

That's because today's pathetic society says things like "It's just stuff!" when they aren't just taking your things. They're taking your sense of security.

Nothing makes me feel more secure than killing someone in my house.
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well it's not exactly a normal thing to set up traps on your property
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or even setting up traps in general

like who sets up a rigged shotgun and goes "yep, I'm a normal person doing a normal thing"
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Anteaterking posted...

's state by state and in many states

what state is a trespasser robbing you not grounds for self defense?
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so if you use a gun in self-defense during unlawful entry it's legally permitted

but god forbid you automate the process
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Fair, next.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

If someone breaks into your house and takes your money you are allowed to shoot them

Is the legal position different if they break into an unoccupied outbuilding rather than your house? Also, do self-defense arguments involving the deliberate use of lethal force hinge around threats to your life or health rather than your property?
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As long as there was a warning sign specifically stating that he was gonna get shot I don't think the owner should be charged.

Though of course I didn't read the article because fuck literacy.
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I'm all for it provided there is warnings. Doesnt have to be specific and say "area booby trapped" just something like "tresspassers will be killed"
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Whelp! The person went in there to steal, played a stupid game, won a stupid prize. But how was the shed owner gonna get into his own shed without setting off the trap?

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He had signs, death warnings, a giant dug hole in front of door, razer blades on the handle to prevent open it.

Plus it is legal to murder people for theft in llinois.

The jury here clearly had a biased individual on the panel who made the others follow suit.

I bet they win the appeal.

Firewerx posted...

Also, do self-defense arguments involving the deliberate use of lethal force hinge around threats to your life or health rather than your property?

The way I see it, someone breaking into your home is threatening your life, period.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

what state is a trespasser robbing you not grounds for self defense?

Before I go down this rabbit hole, let's be clear what you're asking. There are places that allow to use "self-defense" but have restrictions on using "deadly force". I'm contending your claim that if you shoot someone and kill them, you've committed no crime.

So for example, in Massachusetts:
Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Technically you're right but only hyperliterally.

If you believe the trespasser is trying to steal from you then killing them is not murder in the US.

And while I didn't specify that in my posts, it's clear that a trespasser trying to break into the shed is trying to steal.

There's a short list of justifications, which include being attacked, being robbed, stopping a rape and a few other things were lethal force is not illegal.

If someone breaks into your house and takes your money you are allowed to shoot them, if they die you commited no crime.

In the US anyway

Weeelll it depends on the state too.

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Under most law, killing a person who has no way of physically harming anyone is a no-go

If he was in the shed, then there's no murder
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Unsugarized_Foo posted...

Under most law, killing a person who has no way of physically harming anyone is a no-go

If he was in the shed, then there's no murder

false

Lil_Bit83 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Technically you're right but only hyperliterally.

If you believe the trespasser is trying to steal from you then killing them is not murder in the US.

And while I didn't specify that in my posts, it's clear that a trespasser trying to break into the shed is trying to steal.

There's a short list of justifications, which include being attacked, being robbed, stopping a rape and a few other things were lethal force is not illegal.

If someone breaks into your house and takes your money you are allowed to shoot them, if they die you commited no crime.

In the US anyway

Weeelll it depends on the state too.

then stop evading it and name states that can't

you can in Illinois
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This is why you don't set up booby-traps. You leave "debris from just last week, that I hadn't gotten around to cleaning up", in an area you didn't expect anyone to walk by.
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TheMikh posted...

so if you use a gun in self-defense during unlawful entry it's legally permitted

but god forbid you automate the process

In most jurisdictions, "self-defense" doesn't apply to merely defending your possessions, so why would rigging up your shed to defend your possessions fall under "automation of self-defense"?
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TheMikh posted...

so if you use a gun in self-defense during unlawful entry it's legally permitted

but god forbid you automate the process

You are in danger when directly confronted. When you set up a trap, you are deciding to kill anyone who goes in there in a manner that triggers the trap, even if you're safe and sound.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

false

then stop evading it and name states that can't

you can in Illinois

Tbh I don't know which states do and do not have such laws. I just know some states are unfortunately more unreasonable then others.

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ThisIsIt posted...

He had signs, death warnings, a giant dug hole in front of door, razer blades on the handle to prevent open it.

Plus it is legal to murder people for theft in llinois.

The jury here clearly had a biased individual on the panel who made the others follow suit.

I bet they win the appeal.

No, it's pretty standard for you to not be able to set up death traps to kill trespassers, regardless of the signs or warnings. Because that's an insane and murderous thing to do. Federal law says using deadly force indiscriminately to protect unoccupied property is not reasonable, even if the victim is a trespasser. And even with state laws like stand your ground laws and anti-theft laws, the reasonableness of deadly force is determined on a case by case basis, and setting up a death trap means the defendant threw reason out the window and decided to execute all living things because they have a cave dragon mentality when it comes to property.
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