Current Events > There's a firm undercurrent saying we have a mental health crisis in the US...

(+) Yeah! (+)

...that pushes people to the point of wanting to gun down as many people in a public place as possible.

But how do you address that? How do you make it okay for someone to come out and say "I've been having thoughts of killing a bunch of people then myself in a blaze of glory"?

People who want to do stuff like this have no safe way of coming out and admitting they're angry and despondent enough to go to such lengths so it just stews and stews until they're ready to act on it. You say stuff like that and you'll be Baker acted and then word will probably get back to your job, meaning you'll be unemployable for the rest of your days (when I get put in for a security clearance, one of the questions they ask is if you've ever been institutionalized). I don't blame the various rage-bombs in our country for sitting on it since we've never made a pathway to get help that doesn't involve ruining your own life.

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Solid Sonic posted...

But how do you address that? How do you make it okay for someone to come out and say "I've been having thoughts of killing a bunch of people then myself in a blaze of glory"?

By addressing the underlying mental health issues before it gets to that point.
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meestermj posted...

By addressing the underlying mental health issues before it gets to that point.

That's a big mountain to climb when we're talking about lonely people who probably endured a childhood of exclusion and bullying wanting revenge on society. You can't just "make" people be okay with not being accepted by their peers.

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By helping guys to understand emotions are okay, and encouraging them to open up about their negative experiences/emotions to family. Then it's up to the family to have the foresight to be sources of positive reinforcement and knowing when it's time to maybe let their child see a therapist/psychiatrist.
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Solid Sonic posted...

meestermj posted...

By addressing the underlying mental health issues before it gets to that point.

That's a big mountain to climb when we're talking about lonely people who probably endured a childhood of exclusion and bullying wanting revenge on society.

True.
Hence why mental health and proper support are so important.
It's the only solution.
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Were mass shootings a major issue in the 50s and 60s?

Bump.

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People like this is never going to come out and admit it, its scary.

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I dunno man chicks dig guns, guys who cry get none

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I feel like more would if it made personal sense to own up to your explosive, vengeful anger but, at least from where I sit, when its early enough to deal with properly is also when your life is normal enough not to want to risk it by seeking help for it.

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Solid Sonic posted...

I feel like more would if it made personal sense to own up to your explosive, vengeful anger but, at least from where I sit, when its early enough to deal with properly is also when your life is normal enough not to want to risk it by seeking help for it.

that's a culture thing. if you are at therapy you're not at work. mental health isn't contagious so your employer doesn't care. if you don't have a job you can't afford therapy.

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Doesnt help that theres people with mental issues who are angry alone and assholes prey on that by saying its because those other people over there that dont look like you. Thats why you have these problems

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Well...theyre all white, men and mostly in their twenties or late teens. I say ban assault guns, but theyre not the only factor here. These people cant cope with their lives and take to this as an outlet. We have to teach kids and men that its okay to share their emotions. And we also need strict checks on who gets to buy these types of guns.
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Conflict posted...

I'm not sure where you got "making people be okay with not being accepted" from that

I was expanding my point in the original post, please keep up.

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It's a consequence of being a first world country with a huge population and not having a healthcare system.

I certainly dont want it known I spent time in a facility for having violent thoughts.

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It'd certainly help if we didn't have a major political party constantly and factually taking funding away from mental health services in the name of "lowering the budget!" while being led by an asshole who goes out of his way to stoke the flames of tension and divisiveness.

Shit is going to get worse and worse as we head into 2020

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I think a consequence of Western societal norms is that loneliness is just absolutely rampant. Everybody is pushed to be independent and to live alone, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, especially when you're a young adult working, but it can lead to a multitude of issues over time. There is no guarantee at all that you'll find love and end up in a fulfilling relationship.
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i think you gotta start where it all began, at home. you wonder why after decades of guns that this is the time mass shootings are frequently happening? look to whats changed over all this time - stability of the home environment and parental guidance + the internet. the recipe to mass shooters.

seems theres a reoccuring theme when details are reported about mass shooters. parents are numb to shooters and these shooters are looking elsewhere to be molded. easy accessible, readily available, fast, and always there... the internet. toxic af and that leads to shooters cringelord their way to life and change their state of mind. reality is they become numb irl and decide to shoot up public places where people are vulnerable.

these shooters want help so bad, they kill others for it. willing to die than live a social productive life. theyve seen what the system does to everyone around them and its that system they blame for the way their lives turned out. im sure thats the message youll commonly hear. a mass shooter blaming the system and this is their own way to retaliate. they see themselves are the spark to light the flames that burn everything around them.

parents of the shooter... we didnt know.
parents of the shooters... we didnt know.
pattern here is that parental bonds are disconnected and shooters get their fix of it on the internet. it doesnt happen overnight. during the course of several months even years, these shooters subject themselves to the abuse of the internet. they begin spouting off on things that trigger them to aggressively respond to messages online. they find like minded folks to support their views. mind that they dont open dialogue with people irl around them. these shooters descend further with the anonymity of hatred.then finally shooters disconnect from reality and the consequences. they slowly take risks to build up to openly killing other people. they guided to do something about it. someone out there is responsible for egging this kid on. theres influence a keyboard away. someone behind the keyboard had both directly and indirectly influenced these shooters. even a simple dare can be enough to push someone over.

its gonna keep happening. ban all the guns. take away the rights to protect yourself. it dont matter. these young impressionable kids will find ways to always cause harm to others and themselves. the common denominator is the internet. kids are lost and are being guided to act irrationally. toxic influence of the internet fill in the blanks to the mad libs of life. tbh theres always gonna be the higher calling of the internet of spreading your views and doing something about it.

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Yikes
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Godnorgosh posted...

However, in this case I'm unconvinced this guy would have killed 20 people if he didn't feel compelled to do so by his racist and protectionist right-wing ideology. Is that a sign of poor mental health? Perhaps, but it's also a political, cultural, ideological problem, first and foremost.

"Perhaps"? You don't want to gun down unarmed people in a public place unless you are way, way over the line. People you never met and wouldn't know from Adam but "they have to pay" because you feel marginalized and angry.

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After each shooting conservatives lawmakers tell us we have a mental health problem not a gun problem, and then offer up zero mental health solutions. Thoughts and prayers.
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Solid Sonic posted...

I certainly dont want it known I spent time in a facility for having violent thoughts.

Wouldnt you be covered under privacy laws?
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The biggest issue with mental health isn't funding, it's actually manpower. There just aren't enough psychiatrists and counselors even for the facilities we already have.

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Shablagoo posted...

Wouldnt you be covered under privacy laws?

You might be but there are also limits to it. Like I said being put in for a security clearance requires you to disclose it as it's an affidavit so you can't just lie about it (they will investigate your background to verify your answers).

Also at-will employment means you can be dropped from a job if the employer feels like they want you gone, explanation or justification be damned. If rumors start mumbling that you got institutionalized then you can be terminated when you come back if they don't want you around. It might not hurt your next opportunity afterwards but many people do get hesitant to confront mental issues for fear of people's expectations.

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It's a result of toxic masculinity and xenophobia.

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The solution is obviously to ban young white men and conservatives

Solid Sonic posted...

Shablagoo posted...

Wouldnt you be covered under privacy laws?

You might be but there are also limits to it. Like I said being put in for a security clearance requires you to disclose it as it's an affidavit so you can't just lie about it (they will investigate your background to verify your answers).

Also at-will employment means you can be dropped from a job if the employer feels like they want you gone, explanation or justification be damned. If rumors start mumbling that you got institutionalized then you can be terminated when you come back if they don't want you around. It might not hurt your next opportunity afterwards but many people do get hesitant to confront mental issues for fear of people's expectations.

Yeah it sucks, people stigmatize things out of ignorance/unfamiliarity and hatefulness.
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It's too hard to help people. Harder still it's getting everyone to agree that it's people we need to help, and not put up more gun free zone signs.

So it's easier to just blame the object and focus on that instead.
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But how do you address that? How do you make it okay for someone to come out and say "I've been having thoughts of killing a bunch of people then myself in a blaze of glory"?

Ideally, you should be tackling that by not letting people get to the point where they're having those thoughts. I'm fond of the notion that isolation, lack of community, and antipsychotics with dissociative properties contributing to the problem.
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Do you have any sympathy for someone far gone enough to take up arms in a public place or is that too far for you and you're fine if they go down in a hail of gunfire as long as no one innocent is hurt?

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Solid Sonic posted...

Do you have any sympathy for someone far gone enough to take up arms in a public place or is that too far for you and you're fine if they go down in a hail of gunfire as long as no one innocent is hurt?

Empathy, yes. Sympathy, no. I would rather they go down, than for them to kill an innocent person.
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You say stuff like that and you'll be Baker acted and then word will probably get back to your job, meaning you'll be unemployable for the rest of your days

Part of it (not all of it) is a spiritual void, and this is something that society has largely neglected. I just heard yesterday that as many as 9 in 10 British youth think their lives don't have a purpose.

I saw your comments and immediately thought "confession," which has historically been a confidential lifeline for people in need of help. But there are some who want to downplay it and even try to outlaw it (California attempted to break the seal again this year), and then cynically complain "there's no help out there"

There are people in every community willing to help if only they weren't second-guessed for it, and a lot of this problem doesn't just happen overnight. A lot of it can be seen coming from a mile away, but people would prefer to act nice and not judge or say "oh it's just a phase" but sometimes it isn't. Really most of the prevention involves developing good habits so that people are corrected early on and never get to the point of acting out the thoughts let alone having them. The warning signs are well-known, harm to animals first, so many of these shooters have had violent incidents beforehand but those are declared minor and they're quickly out to attack again, and it just keeps snowballing from there because we don't put our feet down and actually talk about reducing sentences rather than increasing them.

We do a disservice by writing all of it off as a health thing - some are perfectly healthy but choose to do wrong, and this needs to be intercepted quickly rather than just keeping our heads down and hoping the problem just goes away, when every time that approach is taken it just gets bigger.
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TaiIs82 posted...

You say stuff like that and you'll be Baker acted and then word will probably get back to your job, meaning you'll be unemployable for the rest of your days

Part of it (not all of it) is a spiritual void, and this is something that society has largely neglected. I just heard yesterday that as many as 9 in 10 British youth think their lives don't have a purpose.

I saw your comments and immediately thought "confession," which has historically been a confidential lifeline for people in need of help. But there are some who want to downplay it and even try to outlaw it (California attempted to break the seal again this year), and then cynically complain "there's no help out there"

There are people in every community willing to help if only they weren't second-guessed for it, and a lot of this problem doesn't just happen overnight. A lot of it can be seen coming from a mile away, but people would prefer to act nice and not judge or say "oh it's just a phase" but sometimes it isn't. Really most of the prevention involves developing good habits so that people are corrected early on and never get to the point of acting out the thoughts let alone having them. The warning signs are well-known, harm to animals first, so many of these shooters have had violent incidents beforehand but those are declared minor and they're quickly out to attack again, and it just keeps snowballing from there because we don't put our feet down and actually talk about reducing sentences rather than increasing them.

We do a disservice by writing all of it off as a health thing - some are perfectly healthy but choose to do wrong, and this needs to be intercepted quickly rather than just keeping our heads down and hoping the problem just goes away, when every time that approach is taken it just gets bigger.

You don't need spirituality. Your life has whatever meaning you want it to ha e. Talk therapy is essentially confession. Why are you so hung up on harming animals? I mean it's a sign, for sure, but I feel like you're basing this off of movies.
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Meh, when you get these angry, angsty guys of a certain culture being reported for making hit lists, stalking, threatening people, take it seriously. When their parents call the police to check on them the cops should actually fucking check on them instead of walking away after 10 seconds at the door because he "seems polite".

Maybe that community should begin taking care of their own mess, or at least raise their young men better.
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No matter how mentally hurt or down on your luck you are, shooting innocent people en masse is always a deliberate step of choices. That garners contempt from me.

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