Current Events > Transgender woman arrested after using the women's bathroom in Denny's

(+) Yeah! (+)

TheDrivingForce posted...

Machete posted...

chrono625 posted...

Machete posted...

JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

Malfunction posted...

Ilishe posted...

Gendered bathrooms are absolutely not stupid in the real world.

Why so?

Yeah, pretty sure I live in the real world. One of the places I work at has a bathroom - which is and should be exactly just that, and a neighbor major city has gender neutral bathrooms ie. no segregated bathrooms throughout. Haven?t heard of it causing any issues.

Some of the bathrooms in the building I work in are "all gender" bathrooms and there have been no incidents that I know of since they made them that way.

Are they single stall/urinal/toilet rooms? Like ADA restrooms?

No, they are 4+ stall rooms, and in some cases the stalls don't even have locks on them.

You're disturbingly knowledgeable on this.

I've worked in this building for 6 years and one such restroom is right next to my suite. It's the only on I know that is no lock, but I haven't been in every bathroom in the building.
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I'd have zero issue with a trans man in the men's room.

I wouldn't want to shit with women in the same restroom and vice versa.
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hyperpsycho posted...

Malfunction posted...

Deserved more than curses and spitting

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Fair next. There is a reason that men and women have separate bathrooms
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Machete posted...

I don't use the no lock ones.

What are you afraid of?
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Sage JJ posted...

Fair next. There is a reason that men and women have separate bathrooms

No there isn't

Regardless, a woman entered the woman's restroom
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careful guys, it's moddable to insinuate that a penis isn't feminine.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

careful guys, it's moddable to insinuate that a penis isn't feminine.

Piss off
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QueenCarly posted...

Sage JJ posted...

Fair next. There is a reason that men and women have separate bathrooms

No there isn't

Regardless, a woman entered the woman's restroom

If there is not a reason why do they exist? The person may be a trans woman but he definitely is not a woman. There is a huge difference and until there are specific trans bathrooms people born men use the men's room while people born women use the women's room
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Malfunction posted...

Ilishe posted...

Gendered bathrooms are absolutely not stupid in the real world.

Why so?

99% of people fall into male or female.

Women would likely be harassed by men in gender neutral bathrooms, especially at venues where drink is involved. Some people are just shy or feel disquieted by the opposite gender in the same restroom.
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spitting on someone is never ok. the dude that called the cops is a douche but its never ok to spit on someone
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I'm sort of mixed on the bathroom debate. On one hand, no genitalia should ever be shown in a bathroom, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Everyone goes in their stall, washes up, and then leaves. Nobody has seen anything they shouldn't. On the other hand, separated bathrooms are supposed to be for the comfort of those using them. You have some people that it would be hard to tell their biological sex without a decent amount of inspection, but there are the people who obviously will never "pass." That can make people uncomfortable, especially should they have an aversion towards being in such a private area with people of the opposite sex. The grand majority of people are going to be uncomfortable being in a bathroom with people who clearly have indications of their biological sex, and such people account for such a large majority that it seems weird to overly cater to such a small minority at their expense. But then should those who do "pass" be forced to use the bathroom of their biological sex and make those people uncomfortable?

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough, so you have the question of "how much do they need to look like a stereotypical man/woman?" That's a whole gray area in itself that I don't think will ever be settled.

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough
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Ilishe posted...

Malfunction posted...

Ilishe posted...

Gendered bathrooms are absolutely not stupid in the real world.

Why so?

99% of people fall into male or female.

Women would likely be harassed by men in gender neutral bathrooms, especially at venues where drink is involved. Some people are just shy or feel disquieted by the opposite gender in the same restroom.

This.

So I wonder which side some people are trying to disqualify? The side who only feel comfortable using bathrooms with people of the same sex or those who have a fear about getting harassed?
Same sex bathrooms make sense. If people want to also have every place include a gender neutral bathroom that's also a good idea that way all sides feel safe
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QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

The problem is that 99% of people would never do this, but for the 1% that would we can't allow it. I believe safety is more important than political correctness, especially when in public washrooms children could be in there.
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what awful fucking clickbait
if they had any decency they would have simply said "woman arrested after harassing family at denny's" but of course they didn't

Illuminoius posted...

what awful fucking clickbait
if they had any decency they would have simply said "woman arrested after harassing family at denny's" but of course they didn't

Cause that's not the whole story
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nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

So your example of why people are uncomfortable with trans people is an extreme hypothetical that by your own acknowledgement is an exaggeration... Yeah, no. Shut the fuck up.
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Yao posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

The problem is that 99% of people would never do this, but for the 1% that would we can't allow it. I believe safety is more important than political correctness, especially when in public washrooms children could be in there.

It's not even 1%, there's zero trans people who have been charged or convicted for sex crimes in a public bathroom, shower, or dressing room. Cis people, particularly cis men, however? There's a handful of cases every year that make headlines.

So basically, you're advocating we punish trans women because of what cis men may do. The irony?

Ban trans people from using their actual bathrooms. So now trans women are in men's bathrooms. That increases the risk that they'll be attacked. And trans men are now in women's bathrooms. So you know what that means? Cis men who want to creep on women in bathrooms just have to say they're trans men and therefore are following the rules in place. You don't actually solve anything, you just make it worse for trans people. Also, the whole part where it never actually has a physical barrier preventing cis men from entering women's spaces which they shouldn't enter to begin with.

So really, you have three options
1) let trans people use the proper restrooms
2) you ban cis people, at least cis men, from bathrooms because of your 1% logic
Or 3) just raise the severity of sentencing for sex related crimes

As you're presumably male, I'm sure you would be opposed to the latter two for any number of reasons.
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gunplagirl posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

So your example of why people are uncomfortable with trans people is an extreme hypothetical that by your own acknowledgement is an exaggeration... Yeah, no. Shut the fuck up.

Then what of the man who claims to be trans for ten minutes so he can go creep in a woman's restroom? That is a very possible scenario should the bar for entry be set at self-identification and only self-identification.

Naysaspace posted...

... a trans customer who is referred to only as Michael Lloyd on the arrest report after she....

lmfao.

michael can be female or male

same as uriel , gabriel and ariel
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Yao posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

The problem is that 99% of people would never do this, but for the 1% that would we can't allow it. I believe safety is more important than political correctness, especially when in public washrooms children could be in there.

This. Unfortunately I think it would be abused if that became the standard everywhere. You should at least be halfway passing and presentable as the gender you claim to be.
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marc55 posted...

Naysaspace posted...

... a trans customer who is referred to only as Michael Lloyd on the arrest report after she....

lmfao.

michael can be female or male

same as uriel , gabriel and ariel

michael is never a womans name. they are obviously using her dead name here
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nemu posted...

gunplagirl posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

So your example of why people are uncomfortable with trans people is an extreme hypothetical that by your own acknowledgement is an exaggeration... Yeah, no. Shut the fuck up.

Then what of the man who claims to be trans for ten minutes so he can go creep in a woman's restroom? That is a very possible scenario should the bar for entry be set at self-identification and only self-identification.

Read my next post, number 124
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Yao posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

The problem is that 99% of people would never do this, but for the 1% that would we can't allow it. I believe safety is more important than political correctness, especially when in public washrooms children could be in there.

This. Unfortunately I think it would be abused if that became the standard everywhere. You should at least be halfway passing and presentable as the gender you claim to be.

Passability is an insurmountable wall, bigots especially try and say that women like Bailey Jay don't pass at all. It's a garbage basis with which to determine who is "worthy" of basic esteem which cis people get for free. Oh, wait. Reading you loud and clear.
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andel posted...

michael is never a womans name. they are obviously using her dead name here

you mean the legal name as far as the state and the individual's record of indentity are concerned? and the law, i'd wager

gunplagirl posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Yao posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

The problem is that 99% of people would never do this, but for the 1% that would we can't allow it. I believe safety is more important than political correctness, especially when in public washrooms children could be in there.

This. Unfortunately I think it would be abused if that became the standard everywhere. You should at least be halfway passing and presentable as the gender you claim to be.

Passability is an insurmountable wall, bigots especially try and say that women like Bailey Jay don't pass at all. It's a garbage basis with which to determine who is "worthy" of basic esteem which cis people get for free. Oh, wait. Reading you loud and clear.

Yep. Enforcing passability is nothing more than a way of enforcing cisnormative standards of beauty.

Gating people out of spaces they belong in because they just don't "fit the look" that society expects is indefensible.
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andel posted...

marc55 posted...

Naysaspace posted...

... a trans customer who is referred to only as Michael Lloyd on the arrest report after she....

lmfao.

michael can be female or male

same as uriel , gabriel and ariel

michael is never a womans name. they are obviously using her dead name here

not common but
never ?

there is an actress called michael michele
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Im not saying that a trans woman should necessarily have to be 100% indistinguishable from the real deal, or even close to that, as it can be difficult to achieve without a lot of facial surgery and all. But if they expect to use spaces reserved for females they shouldnt be walking in there with a stubbly beard and stuff like that. If you dont enforce a minimum standard of making an effort to appear as the gender you identify as, its going to create issues by distressing people, and it also leaves the door open for abuses like the example above.
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gunplagirl posted...

Yao posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

The problem is that 99% of people would never do this, but for the 1% that would we can't allow it. I believe safety is more important than political correctness, especially when in public washrooms children could be in there.

It's not even 1%, there's zero trans people who have been charged or convicted for sex crimes in a public bathroom, shower, or dressing room. Cis people, particularly cis men, however? There's a handful of cases every year that make headlines.

So basically, you're advocating we punish trans women because of what cis men may do. The irony?

Ban trans people from using their actual bathrooms. So now trans women are in men's bathrooms. That increases the risk that they'll be attacked. And trans men are now in women's bathrooms. So you know what that means? Cis men who want to creep on women in bathrooms just have to say they're trans men and therefore are following the rules in place. You don't actually solve anything, you just make it worse for trans people. Also, the whole part where it never actually has a physical barrier preventing cis men from entering women's spaces which they shouldn't enter to begin with.

So really, you have three options
1) let trans people use the proper restrooms
2) you ban cis people, at least cis men, from bathrooms because of your 1% logic
Or 3) just raise the severity of sentencing for sex related crimes

As you're presumably male, I'm sure you would be opposed to the latter two for any number of reasons.

I noticed you ignored the other suggestion I had which I feel would solve the issues I raised as well as the ones you did which are all fair.

We simply have a 3rd bathroom with some sign that basically says absolutely anyone can use these. Have them all be stalls that lock.

Problem solved?
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So arrested for assault, the fact that she had just come out of the women's bathroom had no connection to her arrest.

That said, the person calling the cops was also an asshole and should be fined for wasting police time.
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Both parties were wrong in this, assuming the story happened as it was told.

The man was wrong for calling the police on the woman for no reason.

The woman was wrong for spitting on the man(Regardless of his actions).
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Umbreon posted...

Both parties were wrong in this, assuming the story happened as it was told.

The man was wrong for calling the police on the woman for no reason.

The woman was wrong for spitting on the man(Regardless of his actions).

This.
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Yao posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Yao posted...

nemu posted...

QueenCarly posted...

nemu posted...

Then you have the fringe people who believe simply saying you identify as a woman without taking any steps towards transitioning should be enough

It is enough

So a transwoman who looks like the gruffest, manliest Hell's Angel you've ever seen should be allowed into a woman's restroom no questions asked? Not that I think that's a thing, but you could easily have gruff biker dude claim to be one if the bar is that low.

The problem is that 99% of people would never do this, but for the 1% that would we can't allow it. I believe safety is more important than political correctness, especially when in public washrooms children could be in there.

It's not even 1%, there's zero trans people who have been charged or convicted for sex crimes in a public bathroom, shower, or dressing room. Cis people, particularly cis men, however? There's a handful of cases every year that make headlines.

So basically, you're advocating we punish trans women because of what cis men may do. The irony?

Ban trans people from using their actual bathrooms. So now trans women are in men's bathrooms. That increases the risk that they'll be attacked. And trans men are now in women's bathrooms. So you know what that means? Cis men who want to creep on women in bathrooms just have to say they're trans men and therefore are following the rules in place. You don't actually solve anything, you just make it worse for trans people. Also, the whole part where it never actually has a physical barrier preventing cis men from entering women's spaces which they shouldn't enter to begin with.

So really, you have three options
1) let trans people use the proper restrooms
2) you ban cis people, at least cis men, from bathrooms because of your 1% logic
Or 3) just raise the severity of sentencing for sex related crimes

As you're presumably male, I'm sure you would be opposed to the latter two for any number of reasons.

I noticed you ignored the other suggestion I had which I feel would solve the issues I raised as well as the ones you did which are all fair.

We simply have a 3rd bathroom with some sign that basically says absolutely anyone can use these. Have them all be stalls that lock.

Problem solved?

Nope. One, trans women should still be able to use women's restrooms without issue. And two, in the absence of that third bathroom as an option, we're back where we are now. Really, you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Im not saying that a trans woman should necessarily have to be 100% indistinguishable from the real deal, or even close to that, as it can be difficult to achieve without a lot of facial surgery and all. But if they expect to use spaces reserved for females they shouldnt be walking in there with a stubbly beard and stuff like that. If you dont enforce a minimum standard of making an effort to appear as the gender you identify as, its going to create issues by distressing people, and it also leaves the door open for abuses like the example above.

So are you paying for trans women to get laser hair removal/ electrolysis? If not, then look up the prices. It's about $5,000 over the course of years. And oh, in order for either method to be effective, they can't shave for a few days prior.
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Also I've noticed someone trying to pull the "safety" nonsense regarding bathrooms. Here's why that argument is bullshit.

1. It's already illegal to harrass/rape people. Any would be rapist isn't going to care about a bathroom sign, because they already want to commit a felony.

2. This ignores the assholes who happen to be bi/gay. Do you just ignore that? Because a woman can totally sexually harrass another woman. A man can totally sexually harrass another man.

3. Why is it that this argument always seems to ignore possible abuse in the men's bathroom? It's always about "protecting the women" from possible rapists, but no one blinks an eye if a woman walks into a men's bathroom(because the women's bathroom is down or the line is too long).

No no, that's perfectly fine. Never in these people's minds does it occur to them the possibility of a woman molesting a little boy who's unattended in the men's bathroom. Because who gives a fuck right?

The argument is nonsense. Bathrooms are safe, until an asshole comes along. An asshole isn't going to be stopped by a sign, and you typically can't tell who's an asshole until they start doing something(Unless you want to get into the very slippery line of "Who looks like a rapist").

Also unisex bathrooms exist and those work just fine.
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NonDairyMiltank posted...

is Denny's like the Florida of dining restaurants?

No that's Waffle House. Guaranteed throwing of hands after 11 p.m.
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Yeah the peace of mind argument is stupid and all it does is make the people feel good and does little to actually address the actual issue... if there was an issue to begin with.
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This reminds me when my son was misgenered (mistaken for a girl) going into the boys bathroom because at the time he had long curly blonde hair.

The female employee coming out of the womens restroom informed me of such. I said no thats my son he just as really long hair. She moved on saying nothing else. I stood their and waited for my boy to be done. No spitting, no assault, screaming, etc. To some it maybe surprising how easy it is to be civilized over innocuous things. Mistakes are made. People make bad/uniformed decisions. But the outcome of this situation was not the way to go.
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How about just respecting women's desire to feel comfortable when doing something as routine as using the toilet?

https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2013/09/13/unisex-toilets-british-women-most-reluctant-share-

Nearly 50% of British/American/French women are still uncomfortable with men sharing their toilets. And we are talking about the most currently progressive countries in the world. We can't just treat these numbers as if they are insignificant.

Fair Next
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woah so many articles about this are leaving the real reason she was arrested out

i googled and checked several articles and most of them leave the part about shespitting on them after the cops explained the law to them and got them to calm down
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Gunplagirl, simply saying you are of the other gender is not enough everywhere. In a place where it is legally enough to simply declare your gender vocally or whatever, fine, you're right, use whatever bathroom you want.

I would wager that most of the world does not work like that, though. Can you tell me where exactly it is sufficient to declare your gender change with no legal steps?
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Ilishe posted...

Can you tell me where exactly it is sufficient to declare your gender change with no legal steps?

Inside people like Gunplagirl's heads

thanosibe posted...

This reminds me when my son was misgenered (mistaken for a girl) going into the boys bathroom because at the time he had long curly blonde hair.

The female employee coming out of the womens restroom informed me of such. I said no thats my son he just as really long hair. She moved on saying nothing else. I stood their and waited for my boy to be done. No spitting, no assault, screaming, etc. To some it maybe surprising how easy it is to be civilized over innocuous things. Mistakes are made. People make bad/uniformed decisions. But the outcome of this situation was not the way to go.

Maybe you didn't get angry because she didn't call the police and your son wasn't a female to male transgender.

She shouldn't be spitting or assaulting anyone but her being mad was justified.

JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

Malfunction posted...

Ilishe posted...

Gendered bathrooms are absolutely not stupid in the real world.

Why so?

Yeah, pretty sure I live in the real world. One of the places I work at has a bathroom - which is and should be exactly just that, and a neighbor major city has gender neutral bathrooms ie. no segregated bathrooms throughout. Havent heard of it causing any issues.

Just because there are no issues with unisex toilets at your work place doesn't mean gendered toilets are stupid. I'm 100% sure that gendered toilets will never go away.