Current Events > Why should lazy people be paid a universal income?

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you're able bodied and just dont want to work because... You just dont want to... Then why should you get paid $1000 each month for free?

They definitely shouldn't. These leaches of society don't deserve a single penny
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A system will always have inefficiencies. The better question is, can we have a system with universal basic income that will outweigh the cons of people who would abuse the system?
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If the prediction of the number of jobs to be taken by automation turns out to be true, then it's not going to be a a question of whether people want to work, but rather, if they can

Some of you guys may not buy it since you've not seen it first hand, but while I was doing factory work for a time, I saw jobs just disappear before my very eyes to automated systems

For example, the entire section of the Kraft factory that pumped out the block and shredded cheeses had maaaaybe 30-40 people per shift? Most of the shit, from loading, to boxing, even the QC is automated

Lines of paint booths that took 15-20 people to spray cabinet doors now takes 3-6 to operate the automated sprayer

This is happening all over the country and its only gonna get worse
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MarqueeSeries posted...

If the prediction of the number of jobs to be taken by automation turns out to be true, then it's not going to be a a question of whether people want to work, but rather, if they can

This.

Also, $1000 isn't a living wage, so most people will probably still seek work to some degree, even if its only part time.
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MarqueeSeries posted...

If the prediction of the number of jobs to be taken by automation turns out to be true, then it's not going to be a a question of whether people want to work, but rather, if they can

Some of you guys may not buy it since you've not seen it first hand, but while I was doing factory work for a time, I saw jobs just disappear before my very eyes to automated systems

For example, the entire section of the Kraft factory that pumped out the block and shredded cheeses had maaaaybe 30-40 people per shift? Most of the shit, from loading, to boxing, even the QC is automated

Lines of paint booths that took 15-20 people to spray cabinet doors now takes 3-6 to operate the automated sprayer

This is happening all over the country and its only gonna get worse

The robot take over will be a silent one by the time most notice it will be too late.
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Shouldnt you be called 20WIVES_CHILL
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I didn't realize that someones value as a human being was derived from the amount of hours they work
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Bananana posted...

I didn't realize that someones value as a human being was derived from the amount of hours they work

Only in small American minds.

As automation increases, is there really a point in everyone spending >=40 hours working? Cuz if so then what is the point of all the automation to begin with?
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I think people should have necessities met, but still be looked down on and missing out if they don't get a real job
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Why focus on the lazy people? Why not focus on the driven people that coupd positively use that money to be more productive? Several adults cannot work due to reasons like health or not being able to afford daycare for their kids. If they had basic income to meet their survival needs, they would be all for being more productive to society. It's like people would rather screw over everyone because a few bad apples will somehow undo the good that the good apples coupd accomplish with an incentive.

It's like saying we shouldn't cure cancer because some people with cancer are bad people.
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Bananana posted...

I didn't realize that someones value as a human being was derived from the amount of hours they work

Money doesn't represent your value as a human being, it represents your value to society. Contributing nothing to society means you should get no money.
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Zanzenburger posted...

It's like saying we shouldn't cure cancer because some people with cancer are bad people.

It's nothing like that at all.
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21WIVES_CHILL posted...

If you're able bodied and just dont want to work because... You just dont want to... Then why should you get paid $1000 each month for free?

So that they don't resort to theft to stay alive. Explain to me why anyone shouldn't receive a universal income?
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RescueBC posted...

As automation increases, is there really a point in everyone spending >=40 hours working? Cuz if so then what is the point of all the automation to begin with?

The rich get richer while complainers like TC cry about the possibility of a few lazy people getting a free ride while the rest of society suffers.
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Wait, you mean I could be paid while doing nothing? I could have been a millionaire

21WIVES_CHILL posted...

If you're able bodied and just dont want to work because... You just dont want to... Then why should you get paid $1000 each month for free?

The money trickles up through the economy.

Only for real though not that fake shit like Republican tax cuts for the wealthy.

The question is what do you want to call it? You can either hand it out via a bunch of welfare programs or just pool it together and let people use it to pay bills, buy necessities, etc and get the economic benefit.

At least thats the idea.
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Purple_Cheetah posted...

Wait, you mean I could be paid while doing nothing? I could have been a millionaire

Good luck becoming a millionaire on $1000 a month. It might be possible if you invest it all each month and live in your parents basement for decades on end, but good luck with that.
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Because democracy and the sheer number of lazy people.
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Most studies show that people become more productive with UBI since they don't have to spend all their time surviving. But then capitalists won't be able to get off on exploiting people.

basic income is a bad idea, but not for the reason tc thinks. it's better to cut out the middle man and provide services (housing, food, healthcare, education) directly. otherwise it's just giving more money to the corporations that hoard the wealth in the first place

basic income could do a lot of good if it were combined with existing social services, but it's intended to replace them.
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21WIVES_CHILL posted...

If you're able bodied and just dont want to work because... You just dont want to... Then why should you get paid $1000 each month for free?

Becuase being strong, young and able bodied.....doeasnt exempt you from being a loser that cant compete in capitalism.
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I've been trying to find a job for nearly 20 years, but with zero skills/education/experience I'm undesirable for everything. Shit is impossible as-is when I'm competing with better qualified people even for the most menial work, with the onset of automation, I may as well just give up looking for work entirely because I will be effectively outmoded and useless.

Hell, at that point I may as well be fucking dead, I will literally be garbage.
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This fear of automation taking away so many jobs that it's impossible to find work isn't going to happen in the lifetimes of anyone reading this.
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The Admiral posted...

This fear of automation taking away so many jobs that it's impossible to find work isn't going to happen in the lifetimes of anyone reading this.

Said nobody ever
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Rexdragon125 posted...

Most studies show that people become more productive with UBI since they don't have to spend all their time surviving. But then capitalists won't be able to get off on exploiting people.

What studies? Actual UBI experiments haven't shown any increase in employment or productivity. Finland being the most recent and well known example. Their finance minister said they would be better off with welfare and tax reform instead.

People who work should be paid a livable wage. Now who that is on, that's up for debate. Should rent and the cost of living be cheaper or should companies pay more?
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Bad_Mojo posted...

People who work should be paid a livable wage. Now who that is on, that's up for debate. Should rent and the cost of living be cheaper or should companies pay more?

Universities should stop spending 8 figures on single buildings.
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No way
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$1000 is still pretty minimalist, if you live alone you're lucky if that covers rent, bills, and food. People will still need jobs unless they want to deal with roommates or their parents.
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MarqueeSeries posted...

If the prediction of the number of jobs to be taken by automation turns out to be true, then it's not going to be a a question of whether people want to work, but rather, if they can

Some of you guys may not buy it since you've not seen it first hand, but while I was doing factory work for a time, I saw jobs just disappear before my very eyes to automated systems

For example, the entire section of the Kraft factory that pumped out the block and shredded cheeses had maaaaybe 30-40 people per shift? Most of the shit, from loading, to boxing, even the QC is automated

Lines of paint booths that took 15-20 people to spray cabinet doors now takes 3-6 to operate the automated sprayer

This is happening all over the country and its only gonna get worse

The real killer in automation is not robotics for manufacturing but in administrative work through Smart contracts. Don't get me wrong, robotics for manufacturing is taking jobs, but it's nothing compared to what smart contracts can do. There are a lot of jobs that involve a lot of paperwork, signing of documents for verification for approvals, for payments, acceptance of deliveries, so much busybody work. Smartcontracts are going to DESTROY those jobs. Imagine hiring someone to verify shipments got through to X location and handle the paperwork for payments accordingly when you can have IoT sensors tracked by GPS and connected to smart contracts on the blockchain that automatically trigger payments when the truck docks and unloads his shipment. In my job, because it deals with federal money, my coworkers deal with a metric ton of overhead where getting a payment approval goes through 3 or 4 hands before it goes through. Prime bait for smartcontracts.

I invite you all to read up on Smart contracts and Chainlink, the Fourth Industrial Revolution is right around the corner and it's going to catch A LOT of people unprepared.
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Bananana posted...

I didn't realize that someones value as a human being was derived from the amount of hours they work

It is a proper bootlicker opinion to have.
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MarqueeSeries posted...

If the prediction of the number of jobs to be taken by automation turns out to be true, then it's not going to be a a question of whether people want to work, but rather, if they can

Some of you guys may not buy it since you've not seen it first hand, but while I was doing factory work for a time, I saw jobs just disappear before my very eyes to automated systems

For example, the entire section of the Kraft factory that pumped out the block and shredded cheeses had maaaaybe 30-40 people per shift? Most of the shit, from loading, to boxing, even the QC is automated

Lines of paint booths that took 15-20 people to spray cabinet doors now takes 3-6 to operate the automated sprayer

This is happening all over the country and its only gonna get worse

The counterpoint to that is what is also on the rise: Burnout. The WHO has [finally] classified it as a medical condition, one that contributes to billions in wasted productivity every year. A lot of people are working too hard, too long, at too many simultaneous jobs, before going home to deal with personal things, and that's if they're lucky enough to also avoid toxic work environments and customers.

It seems to me that if we have people that claim they aren't lazy and want to work, while others are literally overworking to death, we have problems that can solve each other. Yes, it isn't a smooth process, but the fact few even look in this direction does lend to the idea that UBI is to enable people to not work, while others overwork to pick up the slack.

And okay, that is unfair, but still, we have to ask why employees and jobs aren't cultivated so people can work instead of this "let everyone go forth and hope it all works out for everyone" system we have now.
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Sorry for bringing this up on here TC but didn't you say you would close your account if KD doesn't resign with the GSW?
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RescueBC posted...

As automation increases, is there really a point in everyone spending >=40 hours working? Cuz if so then what is the point of all the automation to begin with?

Automation is there for those who can afford it not needing to give food and shelter to those who can't afford it. It'll come a time when the fight won't be for money but for the world's natural resources: fertile soil, water and minerals. If you have robots to work for you and protect you from others like you, you don't need other humans for nothing (except, maybe, some kind of sexual service or bloodsport).
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It also leads to a WALL-E situation.
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