Current Events > So why is the "male gaze" such a big problem?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The main issue with "There are attractive guys too!" is that those attractive guys are things for men to "aspire" to be, whereas the attractive women are mostly props.
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men are more visual than women
for women a man's sexiness is more dependent on what he's doing than whether or not his ass in the air.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Darmik posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Darmik posted...

Who is 'they'

People who oppose the idea of "male gaze" I.E sexualized women in video games.

In the context of this topic

The only people who are actively changing or removing them are the developers themselves.

Due to pressure from the complainers or the people funding them.

So that's a moot point of yours.

But the people complaining aren't spending money. I can't wrap my head around the concept of appealing to people that don't buy your game.
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Anteaterking posted...

The main issue with "There are attractive guys too!" is that those attractive guys are things for men to "aspire" to be, whereas the attractive women are mostly props.

All video game characters are props.
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Sick future of the left song incoming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci-fzZ39pLQ" data-time="
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It makes the real life women who never get any attention (read: male gaze) all sad face and if you call them out on it then they get all very surprised angry face.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Due to pressure from the complainers or the people funding them.

So that's a moot point of yours.

Or because these developers are getting older as is the audience. The guys behind God of War and Mortal Kombat have kids now and are approaching their 40's. Games like Tomb Raider followed trends to be more gritty because the older style was becoming more and more dated. Other games focused on T&A like Dead or Alive continue to go for that.

Reducing it down to complainers and pressure simplifies it significantly. The industry isn't the same as it was in the 90's.

dave_is_slick posted...

Darmik posted...

What games are the sandcastles in this scenario?

It's not a good analogy to be sure, but I'd definitely say Dragon Age Inquisition would qualify. That was the first and admittedly only game where I was wondering if they went out of their way to make everybody unattractive

Dragon Age rarely has good character models. Leliana in Origins has a potato face.
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Esrac posted...

All video game characters are props.

When you play Halo 2, you're having a power fantasy of BEING Master Chief, not being the guy next to him while he's doing this stuff.
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Speaking of Halo the gradual 'sexier' Cortana from CE to 4 was weird. That's an example of when it gets pretty cringeworthy.
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"male power fantasy" is such a lame argument tbh
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Anteaterking posted...

Esrac posted...

All video game characters are props.

When you play Halo 2, you're having a power fantasy of BEING Master Chief, not being the guy next to him while he's doing this stuff.

No, you're manipulating Master Chief, the tool/interface, to accomplish the goal of the game.

In the Mario games, for example, if Peach is the ball, Mario and Bowser are the paddles/rackets/bats, etc.
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Darmik posted...

Speaking of Halo the gradual 'sexier' Cortana from CE to 4 was weird. That's an example of when it gets pretty cringeworthy.

Why? Again, i have to follow rules in the real world. Why do i have to in the fake world too?
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The reason you never see the Chief's face is so he can be a self-insert for the player.
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Behaviorism posted...

But the people complaining aren't spending money. I can't wrap my head around the concept of appealing to people that don't buy your game.

Do you have any proof of that?

Appealing to the new young demographic seems to be the smart way to make money in gaming these days. I haven't seen anything to the contrary
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Anteaterking posted...

When you play Halo 2, you're having a power fantasy of BEING Master Chief

Do people say this as a joke?
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Darmik posted...

The reason you never see the Chief's face is so he can be a self-insert for the player.

I call bullshit on that, considering the loads of "self-insert" characters that have faces.

But then, I don't really buy the idea of a self-insert character in the first place. I've never played a game and felt like I was the character. I wasn't Link, Commander Shepard, Crono, Gordon Freeman, etc, they are props the player uses to play the game.

The closest thing to a believable self-insert for me are games like XCOM, Civilization, and Starcraft, where the characters will directly address you as a commander/ruler/cerebrate, but there is no actual character stand-in in the game that they address.
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Or because these developers are getting older as is the audience. The guys behind God of War and Mortal Kombat have kids now and are approaching their 40's. Games like Tomb Raider followed trends to be more gritty because the older style was becoming more and more dated. Other games focused on T&A like Dead or Alive continue to go for that.

Bullshit. You're kidding yourself. God of War and Mortal Kombat didn't change because "developers got older" God of War was incredibly immature. It changed because that's where the money is.

Tomb Raider is also the second reboot and the first reboot was more silly than the original 6 games. They changed them to what they thought would make money at the time.

I don't agree with you at all. These changes weren't artistic visions they were marketing tactics.

You're telling me if that if Sony thought God of War would sell better if it was full of hot threesomes and boobies they would refuse to out of morality because "Some of the developers have kids"? and throw millions of dollars down the drain?

I don't buy that for a second and I don't believe you do either.
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Darmik posted...

Dragon Age rarely has good character models. Leliana in Origins has a potato face.

I mean, it did initially begin development in 2002.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Bulls***. You're kidding yourself. God of War and Mortal Kombat didn't change because "developers got older" God of War was incredibly immature. It changed because that's where the money is.

Prove it.
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Esrac posted...

In the Mario games, for example, if Peach is the ball, Mario and Bowser are the paddles/rackets/bats, etc.

Tennis racquets don't have agency. Mario and Bowser do.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

SpiritSephiroth posted...

Specifically in videogames. We like women. Women like men. Thats how our biology is written and some certain individuals lambast males for having this biological drive to desire a woman, precisely women in videogames.

The fact that men are criticised for sexualizing their own characters, in their own artforms, makes me question a lot of things these people argue about. What exactly is the problem? If it 'detriments' society, how does it do that?

Imagine something like this was the cover of literally every video game.



How would that make you feel?

...that really is America's ass.
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dave_is_slick posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Bulls***. You're kidding yourself. God of War and Mortal Kombat didn't change because "developers got older" God of War was incredibly immature. It changed because that's where the money is.

Prove it.

I think I already did.

BloodRayne:

96% male player base
Dragon Age Inqusition:

52% male player base

Tomb Raider Legend: 3 million sales
Tomb Raider 2013: 8 million sales.

God of War 3: 5 million sales
God of War 2018: 10 million sales.

The Last of us: 17 million sales

Some one mentioned talking with your wallets earlier and people are. More specifically the young generation are.

And guess who is buying all the microtransctions? Under 23s.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

In the Mario games, for example, if Peach is the ball, Mario and Bowser are the paddles/rackets/bats, etc.

Tennis racquets don't have agency. Mario and Bowser do.

No, they don't. Mario absolutely doesnt have agency when the character's action is dependent on how the player manipulates him to clear the level.

Mario is a virtual action figure.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Or because these developers are getting older as is the audience. The guys behind God of War and Mortal Kombat have kids now and are approaching their 40's. Games like Tomb Raider followed trends to be more gritty because the older style was becoming more and more dated. Other games focused on T&A like Dead or Alive continue to go for that.

Bullshit. You're kidding yourself. God of War and Mortal Kombat didn't change because "developers got older" God of War was incredibly immature. It changed because that's where the money is.

Tomb Raider is also the second reboot and the first reboot was more silly than the original 6 games. They changed them to what they thought would make money at the time.

I don't agree with you at all. These changes weren't artistic visions they were marketing tactics.

You're telling me if that if Sony thought God of War would sell better if it was full of hot threesomes and boobies they would refuse to out of morality because "Some of the developers have kids"? and throw millions of dollars down the drain?

I don't buy that for a second and I don't believe you do either.

Either way it's not due to pressure from complainers if the market doesn't support male pervy games anymore.

I fully believe Cory Balrog got to make the game he wanted to make. He goes into detail about it in the God of War documentary. Both the developers and the gamers who play games are maturing because the industry as a whole is maturing. Hot babe games aren't mainstream anymore. This site used to be filled with teenagers. Now a lot of us are settling down and having kids.

Ironically Tomb Raider back in the 90's had the opposite issue. The lead developer wanted a strong female protagonist. The body was exaggerated and overly feminine because it was the best way to make Lara obviously female within the technology they were working with. Similar to why Mario has overalls and a moustache in his original games.

But then the marketing took over and focused on sexy marketing. It got bad to the point he left the franchise. The character changed into something he no longer envisioned.

People are acting like that's happening to developers who want to make sexy games and I haven't heard of any stories. Thanks to digital distribution it's easier than ever to find games for people who want the 'male gaze' but it's a niche for rather obvious reasons.

Besides I'm guessing most critically acclaimed developers aren't really interested in being known as the tits and ass developer. Kojima is an exception and even he tried to explain it with some nonsense instead of owning up to it.
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Darmik posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Or because these developers are getting older as is the audience. The guys behind God of War and Mortal Kombat have kids now and are approaching their 40's. Games like Tomb Raider followed trends to be more gritty because the older style was becoming more and more dated. Other games focused on T&A like Dead or Alive continue to go for that.

Bullshit. You're kidding yourself. God of War and Mortal Kombat didn't change because "developers got older" God of War was incredibly immature. It changed because that's where the money is.

Tomb Raider is also the second reboot and the first reboot was more silly than the original 6 games. They changed them to what they thought would make money at the time.

I don't agree with you at all. These changes weren't artistic visions they were marketing tactics.

You're telling me if that if Sony thought God of War would sell better if it was full of hot threesomes and boobies they would refuse to out of morality because "Some of the developers have kids"? and throw millions of dollars down the drain?

I don't buy that for a second and I don't believe you do either.

Either way it's not due to pressure from complainers if the market doesn't support male pervy games anymore.

I fully believe Cory Balrog got to make the game he wanted to make. He goes into detail about it in the God of War documentary. Both the developers and the gamers who play games are maturing because the industry as a whole is maturing. Hot babe games aren't mainstream anymore. This site used to be filled with teenagers. Now a lot of us are settling down and having kids.

Ironically Tomb Raider back in the 90's had the opposite issue. The lead developer wanted a strong female protagonist. The body was exaggerated and overly feminine because it was the best way to make Lara obviously female within the technology they were working with. Similar to why Mario has overalls and a moustache in his original games.

But then the marketing took over and focused on sexy marketing. It got bad to the point he left the franchise. The character changed into something he no longer envisioned.

People are acting like that's happening to developers who want to make sexy games and I haven't heard of any stories. Thanks to digital distribution it's easier than ever to find games for people who want the 'male gaze' but it's a niche for rather obvious reasons.

Besides I'm guessing most critically acclaimed developers aren't really interested in being known as the tits and ass developer. Kojima is an exception and even he tried to explain it with some nonsense instead of owning up to it.

"Maturing"? That's bullshit. I'm 36 and still love and want boobs and butts. Many others do as well.
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Behaviorism posted...

"Maturing"? That's bullshit. I'm 36 and still love and want boobs and butts. Many others do as well.

Cool. There's still being games made for you.

But this isn't the mainstream audience anymore. A game that's marketed with a player only holding the controller with one hand isn't going to sell well these days. That's why they are low budget games.
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Darmik posted...

Either way it's not due to pressure from complainers if the market doesn't support male pervy games anymore.

I'm not sure I agree.

You think the market changed without anyone complaining or changing it?

That seems like an almost religious amount of faith to hold that belief.

Darmik posted...

I fully believe Cory Balrog got to make the game he wanted to make. He goes into detail about it in the God of War documentary. Both the developers and the gamers who play games are maturing because the industry as a whole is maturing. Hot babe games aren't mainstream anymore. This site used to be filled with teenagers. Now a lot of us are settling down and having kids.

Bullshit.

The game is super immature, this is the game were you run around with a comedy severed head on your belt and go to hell to punch some zombies. And it's not that the "industry is maturing" it's that he or at least the publishers knew how to market the game for maximum sales.

Games like Baldurs Gate or Deus Ex or System Shock 2 were far more mature 20 years ago.

I don't buy for one second that they would have made God of WAr the way they did if they honestly thought it wouldn't sell well. And Sony absolutely would not let them either.

Ironically Tomb Raider back in the 90's had the opposite issue. The lead developer wanted a strong female protagonist. The body was exaggerated and overly feminine because it was the best way to make Lara obviously female within the technology they were working with. Similar to why Mario has overalls and a moustache in his original games.

Oh please don't tell me you buy the whole "The bib boobs was a mistake! We only meant to imply she was female! Nothing else." line the spewed?

Look in the manual of the original PC and PS1 games, you could order like shirts and pics of her half naked. And she grunts and groans and makes jokes about getting wet.

Lara Croft was sexualized from day 1. And it was smart marketing. They sold a ton more copies of the game because of it.

Besides I'm guessing most critically acclaimed developers aren't really interested in being known as the tits and ass developer. Kojima is an exception and even he tried to explain it with some nonsense instead of owning up to it.

I still don't agree with your logic.

You're claiming "They don't want to know as this..." when I see "They want to make or are being told to make money."

Nothing else they or anything in this industry has ever done suggest they are doing this on personal or moral grounds or that the publishers funding them would let them. At the same time you get stories like Dontnod or WatchDogs which demonstrate a the exact opposite.

I mean just to lay the point down, Kratos is still a muscle bound hulk, all the men in Mortal Kombat are still hunks. Everyone still talks like children, there is blood and gore everywhere and the plots are dumb. This is not "maturity."

The War of Mine is a mature game and no one played it. This is an immensely immature game just with less sex. Because that's what sells in the market.

Which is fine but I don't get why you're pretending these are not marketing decisions.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

SpiritSephiroth posted...

Specifically in videogames. We like women. Women like men. Thats how our biology is written and some certain individuals lambast males for having this biological drive to desire a woman, precisely women in videogames.

The fact that men are criticised for sexualizing their own characters, in their own artforms, makes me question a lot of things these people argue about. What exactly is the problem? If it 'detriments' society, how does it do that?

Imagine something like this was the cover of literally every video game.



How would that make you feel?

Ooh la laaa
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UnfairRepresent posted...

You think the market changed without anyone complaining or changing it?

What complaints can you pinpoint that made the change?

You can see the gradual change from the 90's until now. Movies like Batman Begin influenced Tomb Raider 2013 after Tomb Raider Underworld failed to sell. Games like The Last of Us lead to games like Horizon Zero Dawn.

I'd say market successes and failures impact the industry significantly more than people complaining.

Here's a 1998 interview about Tomb Raider from the creator
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131700/interview_with_toby_gard.php

I never said they were doing it solely for personal of moral grounds. It works out for them. It's similar to any transition we see in gaming. Look at Naughty Dog's progression through their career. They've gone from cartoon platformers to gritty and mature games. Do they still want to develop platformers? No. Would a platformer sell as well? Also no. Things are different. The industry itself is different.
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Darmik posted...

Behaviorism posted...

"Maturing"? That's bullshit. I'm 36 and still love and want boobs and butts. Many others do as well.

Cool. There's still being games made for you.

But this isn't the mainstream audience anymore. A game that's marketed with a player only holding the controller with one hand isn't going to sell well these days. That's why they are low budget games.

I don't think the people who like those games would be so annoyed, if popular games media and critics, sjws if you want to use that terminology, wouldn't so often treat them like they're bad or otherwise undesirable people for liking those games and acting like the existence of those games is harmful.
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Darmik posted...

What complaints can you pinpoint that made the change?

I don't even think you know what this question means.

You can see the gradual change from the 90's until now. Movies like Batman Begin influenced Tomb Raider 2013 after Tomb Raider Underworld failed to sell. Games like The Last of Us lead to games like Horizon Zero Dawn.

I'm not following those examples at all.. but ok...

I'd say market successes and failures impact the industry significantly more than people complaining.

Chicken and egg.

"Market successes and failures" don't even occur unless someone tries something different due to pressure. Or at least the same old starts to fail.

Darmik posted...

I never said they were doing it solely for personal of moral grounds. It works out for them. It's similar to any transition we see in gaming. Look at Naughty Dog's progression through their career. They've gone from cartoon platformers to gritty and mature games. Do they still want to develop platformers? No. Would a platformer sell as well? Also no. Things are different. The industry itself is different.

But is always driven by making money.

That's my point which you have been arguing against.

You're taking decisions that were made as marketing ones and going "look they said they did it for another reason, therefore they did" which is dishonest.

In another reality where the market showed Kratos having more orgies would sell more, the same devs would be saying something else.

I think your very own example undercuts your point. Trying to argue God of War 2018 is a mature game is so hilariously untrue that it just underlines "We're saying this because of marketing."

It's a very immature game that doesn't have sex when the previous games did.

Which again is fine, but this is marketing.
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Esrac posted...

Darmik posted...

Behaviorism posted...

"Maturing"? That's bullshit. I'm 36 and still love and want boobs and butts. Many others do as well.

Cool. There's still being games made for you.

But this isn't the mainstream audience anymore. A game that's marketed with a player only holding the controller with one hand isn't going to sell well these days. That's why they are low budget games.

I don't think the people who like those games would be so annoyed, if popular games media and critics, sjws if you want to use that terminology, wouldn't so often treat them like they're bad or otherwise undesirable people for liking those games and acting like the existence of those games is harmful.

But they think it is harmful.

They think it demeans women, hurts other games, hurts publishing and has negative sterotypical effects on society.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Esrac posted...

Darmik posted...

Behaviorism posted...

"Maturing"? That's bullshit. I'm 36 and still love and want boobs and butts. Many others do as well.

Cool. There's still being games made for you.

But this isn't the mainstream audience anymore. A game that's marketed with a player only holding the controller with one hand isn't going to sell well these days. That's why they are low budget games.

I don't think the people who like those games would be so annoyed, if popular games media and critics, sjws if you want to use that terminology, wouldn't so often treat them like they're bad or otherwise undesirable people for liking those games and acting like the existence of those games is harmful.

But they think it is harmful.

They think it demeans women, hurts other games, hurts publishing and has negative sterotypical effects on society.

So? They should keep it to themselves, instead of trying to piss on someone else's fun. Gaming is a big tent. There can be room for games about gay dads and games about big titty ninjas.
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Esrac posted...

So? They should keep it to themselves,

Why?

They're allowed to complain just as you are
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Esrac posted...

Darmik posted...

Behaviorism posted...

"Maturing"? That's bullshit. I'm 36 and still love and want boobs and butts. Many others do as well.

Cool. There's still being games made for you.

But this isn't the mainstream audience anymore. A game that's marketed with a player only holding the controller with one hand isn't going to sell well these days. That's why they are low budget games.

I don't think the people who like those games would be so annoyed, if popular games media and critics, sjws if you want to use that terminology, wouldn't so often treat them like they're bad or otherwise undesirable people for liking those games and acting like the existence of those games is harmful.

But they think it is harmful.

They think it demeans women, hurts other games, hurts publishing and has negative sterotypical effects on society.

There's no evidence that that is the case. It's all ideological hyperbole. Entertainment has always been a reflection of the cutlure in some capacity, not a driving force of the culture. We are seeing an artificial attempt to change the culture through entertainment now though.

People were saying all the violence portrayed in entertainment in the 80's and 90's would have a detrimental impact on society too, but violent crime has been on a downturn ever since the 80's.

I don't get your argument of "I don't agree with them therefore they shouldn't be allowed to complain"

That just seem egotyisitcal to the max.

If you enjoy something, their complaining shouldn't bother you

And something is changing to be something they like and you don't and that angers you, welcome to their world.
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Esrac posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

In the Mario games, for example, if Peach is the ball, Mario and Bowser are the paddles/rackets/bats, etc.

Tennis racquets don't have agency. Mario and Bowser do.

No, they don't. Mario absolutely doesnt have agency when the character's action is dependent on how the player manipulates him to clear the level.

Mario is a virtual action figure.

Why are you being stupidly literal right now.
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This is like a fan of checkers demanding that Final Fantasy be designed more like a game of checkers to be inclusive to checker players.

Or a Vegan demanding that McDonalds remove their beef hamburgers to be more inclusive to Vegans.

UnfairRepresent posted...

That's my point which you have been arguing against.

No. I was arguing against this;

Due to pressure from the complainers or the people funding them.

So that's a moot point of yours

Which I said simplifies the issue significantly and you went off another tangent. It really doesn't matter if you think God of War is the way it is because of marketing or because it was the game Cory want to make. It wasn't changed due to complaints. Sony wasn't even going to fund it unless it brought something new to the table.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I don't get your argument of "I don't agree with them therefore they shouldn't be allowed to complain"

That just seem egotyisitcal to the max.

If you enjoy something, their complaining shouldn't bother you

And something is changing to be something they like and you don't and that angers you, welcome to their world.

There is a lot you don't get. That's kind if your thing.

dave_is_slick posted...

Esrac posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Esrac posted...

In the Mario games, for example, if Peach is the ball, Mario and Bowser are the paddles/rackets/bats, etc.

Tennis racquets don't have agency. Mario and Bowser do.

No, they don't. Mario absolutely doesnt have agency when the character's action is dependent on how the player manipulates him to clear the level.

Mario is a virtual action figure.

Why are you being stupidly literal right now.

Why aren't you?

Video game characters aren't people and concepts like "agency" don't really apply to them. They are props and set pieces that don't serve any purpose without player interaction. That's just interactive entertainment media.
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I guess the problem is that "sexy" stereotypical women are a tired trope which some people (both women and men) find it hard to relate to. I could see that it probably hurts the self-esteem of people. I don't know. I'm actually researching about this stuff right now (i.e. gamergate, etc.)
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In a plot game characters have agency. A game can tell a linear plot just fine.

It doesn't have to. But it can. They're not always just props.
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Esrac posted...

There is a lot you don't get. That's kind if your thing.

I didn't think you could explain it either
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PikachuMaxwell posted...

I guess the problem is that "sexy" stereotypical women are a tired trope which some people (both women and men) find it hard to relate to. I could see that it probably hurts the self-esteem of people. I don't know. I'm actually researching about this stuff right now (i.e. gamergate, etc.)

I don't buy that argument either. I'm a 36 year old black male with no kids. How much of society, media, movies, etc do you think i "relate" to?
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Behaviorism posted...

PikachuMaxwell posted...

I guess the problem is that "sexy" stereotypical women are a tired trope which some people (both women and men) find it hard to relate to. I could see that it probably hurts the self-esteem of people. I don't know. I'm actually researching about this stuff right now (i.e. gamergate, etc.)

I don't buy that argument either. I'm a 36 year old black male with no kids. How much of society, media, movies, etc do you think i "relate" to?

I guess you have a stronger mind than most people and that you don't let the tropes and stereotypes get to you. Again, it's a guess.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Esrac posted...

There is a lot you don't get. That's kind if your thing.

I didn't think you could explain it either

Dude, your entire shtick on this board has been that, no matter how well a point is explained to you, you'll quibble about it. Because you're just here to be a contrarian.

But then, I've had you trying to argue against Ian Malcom quotes from Jurassic Park in that old topic about making fake vaginas out of fish.

I don't typically agree with Darmik, but at least he is occasionally worth a sincere response.

Darmik posted...

In a plot game characters have agency. A game can tell a linear plot just fine.

It doesn't have to. But it can. They're not always just props.

Look, next time you play a Zelda game, just put down the controller and wait to see how much agency Link has. Will he go slay Ganondorf on his own or will he go back to herding goats?

Or will he just stand there until you finally pick up the controller and start playing the game, because he isn't a person so much as a prop you can manipulate with button inputs to compete against computer opponents?

All that stuff about plots and stories is just window dressing.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

SpiritSephiroth posted...

Puzzled since most females wouldn't picture their dream man to pose like that at all. So I'm not sure who those pictures are aimed at. Never really did understand this.

It's not really "aimed" at anyone. This is the male gaze applied to male characters.

But really imagine almost every game you played all the male characters were drawn to look like that.

Don't you think you'd get fucking tired of that shit?

How about every character drawn like a muscular man? That is normally what happens. Men are sex objects in games too. They are often what a 'perfect' man should look like.
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Link choosing to stand there and do nothing is technically character agency if you want to be pedantic about it lol.

When it comes to the story of Legend of Zelda Link has complete agency. The player controlling the character doesn't have a role in the story.

Would you say a book character has no agency because the author wrote them that way?
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Esrac posted...

Why aren't you?

Because you're doing the "well ackshully" bullshit. Stop it. You're not clever.
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Esrac posted...

Dude, your entire shtick on this board has been that, no matter how well a point is explained to you, you'll quibble about it.

"I'm allowed to complain If I don't like something but they are not. It's wrong for them to complain"

"How does that make sense."

"IF I EXPLAINED IT TO YOU, YOU WOULD JUST POINT OUT HOW AM I WRONG!"

Erm... Yeah probably

It was a really dumb argument. As you are demonstrating here by your fear of me.

People are allowed to not like things dude. You're not the center of the Earth
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