Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 470: Stone Cold Steve

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Steiner
02/05/19 5:34:18 PM
1
That's actually catchy
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Advokaiser makes me feel eternal. All this pain is an illusion.
Jakyl25
02/05/19 5:35:47 PM
2
Chilly McFreeze would eventually have just been Chilly
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 5:46:28 PM
3
To be fair, some name shortening actually worked.

Like Alexander Rusev.
Or Rocky Maivia.
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Jakyl25
02/05/19 5:48:23 PM
4
Dwayne Rocky Maivia Johnson
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scarletspeed7
02/05/19 5:52:07 PM
5
Or Charlotte on alternate weeks
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Jakyl25
02/05/19 5:52:19 PM
6
So they turned Elias heel again because Vince thinks hes hit his ceiling as a face

But like he turned face originally because he was too likable as a heel

This feels like the start of an inescapable cycle
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 5:55:02 PM
7
Maybe we go full cycle and then we just get Elias randomly strumming in other people's segments.
---
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PrivateBiscuit1
02/05/19 6:02:00 PM
8
Jakyl25 posted...
So they turned Elias heel again because Vince thinks hes hit his ceiling as a face

But like he turned face originally because he was too likable as a heel

This feels like the start of an inescapable cycle

Wasn't he face for like three months though?
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Tom Bombadil
02/05/19 6:03:44 PM
9
so what you're saying is, well, it's the big show?
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ScareChan
02/05/19 6:14:59 PM
10
well he isnt wrong

you cant top Seven Nation Army Elias
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Jakyl25
02/05/19 6:15:44 PM
11
Tried listening to the VOW Flagship, and midway through, one of them transitioned a conversation about how closely Humberto Carillo is related to Hector Garza into a story about how he hooked up with two girls who were cousins in Kansas once

Okay
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Steiner
02/05/19 6:23:52 PM
12
Jakyl25 posted...
Tried listening to the VOW Flagship, and midway through, one of them transitioned a conversation about how closely Humberto Carillo is related to Hector Garza into a story about how he hooked up with two girls who were cousins in Kansas once

Okay


Okay then

Also I agree some name changes have been for the best! Tucker is not.
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Steiner
02/05/19 6:25:45 PM
13
Elias will be fine as a heel if they drop the walk with Elias and other lines the crowd are obviously going to pop for
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StealThisSheen
02/05/19 6:43:54 PM
14
scarletspeed7 posted...
Elias is almost single-handedly the reason I don't watch RAW.


This seems super weird to me. Like, even if you don't like Elias, of all the things to not watch RAW over, Elias is used pretty inoffensively. He tends to get his 10 minutes or so and then not really show up again.
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Lopen
02/05/19 6:44:01 PM
15
Heel Elias basically reminds me of heel Alberto Del Rio right now

But he has more natural non-smarmy charisma than Alberto so he actually gets a face reaction whereas Alberto maintained his tepid heel reaction even while having a bunch of stupid catchphrases

The big takeaway is heels should not have catchphrases that involve yelling
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Lopen
02/05/19 6:46:47 PM
16
StealThisSheen posted...
Like, even if you don't like Elias, of all the things to not watch RAW over, Elias is used pretty inoffensively. He tends to get his 10 minutes or so and then not really show up again.


Well, Elias is a good symbol of the idea that Raw doesn't actually develop characters or storylines at all. Elias does his same segment every week, does his basic treadmill promo that advances nothing possibly followed by a basic by the numbers match, and that's it.

Scarlet hated Rusev Day for the same kinda reason and I agree with him to an extent. WalkWithElias is about as WWE as it gets.
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StealThisSheen
02/05/19 6:49:45 PM
17
Lopen posted...
StealThisSheen posted...
Like, even if you don't like Elias, of all the things to not watch RAW over, Elias is used pretty inoffensively. He tends to get his 10 minutes or so and then not really show up again.


Well, Elias is a good symbol of the idea that Raw doesn't actually develop characters or storylines at all. Elias does his same segment every week, does his basic treadmill promo that advances nothing possibly followed by a basic by the numbers match, and that's it.

Scarlet hated Rusev Day for the same kinda reason and I agree with him to an extent. WalkWithElias is about as WWE as it gets.


Well, sure, but it's also entirely skippable. It's not like Corbin where he consistently permeates almost the entire show.

If he actually means "Booking/Stuff like Elias" then yeah that makes more sense.
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PrivateBiscuit1
02/05/19 6:50:20 PM
18
Bigger Takeaway: They should not have the same exact segment with a different reference to the city he's in so that people can play singalong every single week in the same manner.

That's what has done Elias in. They have the same segment each week and everyone knows exactly when to sing with Elias. If they had him in other segments that didn't start with him in the middle of the ring alone, singing a song with the same pattern, he could slip in those catchphrases into other promos no problem.

Imagine if he's just out to confront someone and how easily he could tell people to shut their mouths or that people are here to see him because WWE stands for Walk With Elias. All it takes is for him to not say it in a way where the crowd can sing it too.
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scarletspeed7
02/05/19 6:55:52 PM
19
Elias is definitely representative of the things I hate most in WWE, and Lopen kind of nailed it perfectly. I started caring about Rusev the moment he started doing slighly more than just saying "Rusev Day". I was into the storyline of Aiden and Rusev because it allowed him to not run in place forever and develop just a little bit of substance. Similarly, Elias in NXT had brief moments where he had development. I absolutely loved the El Vagabundo week, for example. In those instances, I'm kind of interested in the character. But ultimately, he's a two-dimensional cardboard cut-out in a world where we have characters that really aren't just that.

For me, the height of wrestling is when every character has a different relationship with every other character on the roster. The Rock could lay his catchphrases down in every segment but still present something original because the chemistry between Austin and Rock was different from Triple H and Rock and Vince and Rock and Hurricane and Rock and Godfather and Rock, etc., etc.

I think Smackdown achieves this once and a while. Little moments like AJ staring down Asuka for a few seconds before getting in the ring kind of demonstrate that well-rounded characterization. Or Daniel Bryan week-in and week-out, presenting a different argument or putting forth a new complaint about consumeristic society. Rusev and his relationship with Lana is of much more interest to me than shouting Rusev Day and then getting in the ring. I preferred the Lana is the Best chants, honestly.

This is why I like NXT so much. Gargano has different relationships with Ciampa, Dream, Black, Undisputed, Candice, etc. Matt Riddle interacts with like three people on the roster right now, and they all feel different and therefore less stale.

Elias is one size fits all, and that's lazy writing.
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StealThisSheen
02/05/19 6:58:58 PM
20
That makes sense

I can't fully agree because stuff like Rusev/Lana is typically really bad writing and so I'd happily take "Rusev Day" over it. Like, to me, if the choice is cookie cutter/lazy writing or bad writing, I'll probably prefer the lazy.
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scarletspeed7
02/05/19 7:00:46 PM
21
Rusev and Lana have good moments. Aiden ended up disappointing but the start of it had potential. And Nakamura and Rusev had good aspects until whatever happened last week. But even that could be salvaged with just a little explanation from Rusev.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
NBIceman
02/05/19 7:06:11 PM
22
Jakyl25 posted...
Tried listening to the VOW Flagship, and midway through, one of them transitioned a conversation about how closely Humberto Carillo is related to Hector Garza into a story about how he hooked up with two girls who were cousins in Kansas once

Okay

I haven't listened to the past couple of weeks yet since it's been so WWE-heavy but I'm sure this was Lanza.

He definitely gets carried away sometimes, although it happens way less often since he got married last year. Really, I find it part of the charm of the show that it can go off the rails at any moment. I'll be the first to admit it can be an acquired taste, though.

Their real selling point is how thoroughly they cover pretty much the entire wrestling world instead of just the main companies.
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Tom Bombadil
02/05/19 7:06:27 PM
23
StealThisSheen posted...
Like, to me, if the choice is cookie cutter/lazy writing or bad writing, I'll probably prefer the lazy.


I was raised on WCW so nuts to that
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 7:07:14 PM
24
Just push DREW MAC and do whatever the fuck with everyone else.
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Jakyl25
02/05/19 7:35:07 PM
25
NBIceman posted...

Their real selling point is how thoroughly they cover pretty much the entire wrestling world instead of just the main companies.


Yes this episode was very big company heavy, running down the NJPW US situation and previewing Takeover and the Rumble

They really hate Gargano theatrics!
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 7:36:09 PM
26
Jakyl25 posted...
They really hate Gargano theatrics!


I don't know who those guys are but they suck.
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TheRock ~ I had a name, my father called me Blues.
Jakyl25
02/05/19 7:36:46 PM
27
On Twitter they call it Johnny Gargano Dinner Theater
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Jakyl25
02/05/19 7:38:20 PM
28
Also sad to hear that theyre not high on my favorite ant Tracy Williams
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 7:39:50 PM
29
The best ant was always Missile Assault Ant.
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TheRock ~ I had a name, my father called me Blues.
ExThaNemesis
02/05/19 7:41:58 PM
30
Anyone who hates on Johnny Gargano can have their opinions filed firmly in the trash.
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NBIceman
02/05/19 7:47:26 PM
31
ExThaNemesis posted...
Anyone who hates on Johnny Gargano can have their opinions filed firmly in the trash.

They love Gargano. He's Rich's all-time favorite wrestler.

What they hate is the melodrama of the Ciampa story.
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 7:49:25 PM
32
I mean there's such little touches like Gargano starting at Ciampa's title every time they pose together.

It's been so well done, it's an almost two year running storyline.
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TheRock ~ I had a name, my father called me Blues.
Jakyl25
02/05/19 7:49:30 PM
33
Melodrama is the core tenet of professional wrestling!
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NBIceman
02/05/19 7:51:44 PM
34
Jakyl25 posted...
Melodrama is the core tenet of professional wrestling!

It takes different forms, though. There's a difference between Gargano staring wide-eyed at his hands when he does violent things and cutting promos in the middle of matches versus, say, the Okada/Tanahashi saga.

TheRock1525 posted...
I mean there's such little touches like Gargano starting at Ciampa's title every time they pose together.

It's been so well done, it's an almost two year running storyline.

That's not really a little touch so much as a focused piece of the story.
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Jakyl25
02/05/19 7:53:20 PM
35
If I have to see Candice LeRae have to pull Gargano away from Ciampa one more time, I quit NXT. Havent we been doing this for a year?
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Lopen
02/05/19 7:55:12 PM
36
I'll take bad over boring every time unless it's a specific flavor of bad and really bad. Rusev/Lana isn't that. It's just kinda bad.

Wrestling is usually bad to the point it's interesting in its badness so I almost always will take bad there. At least it's something worth talking about instead of just being boring.
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Jakyl25
02/05/19 7:58:10 PM
37
The VOW guys also seem to not buy into the theory that people like Gargano, Ricochet, Ciampa, and Black arent called up already because Trips is hoarding them and only sending his castoffs to Vince. They wonder why theyre not on the main roster yet

I think that seems abundantly clear! Triple H has learned what happens!
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PrivateBiscuit1
02/05/19 7:59:28 PM
38
Send to WWE > Get poorly utilized > Go to AEW when possible

Sounds like the standard trajectory now.
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 8:05:26 PM
39
Jakyl25 posted...
The VOW guys also seem to not buy into the theory that people like Gargano, Ricochet, Ciampa, and Black arent called up already because Trips is hoarding them and only sending his castoffs to Vince. They wonder why theyre not on the main roster yet

I think that seems abundantly clear! Triple H has learned what happens!


I mean, Ric and Black have been in NXT far shorter than Gargano and Ciampa.

Especially Ric.
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RaidenGarai
02/05/19 8:06:14 PM
40
I don't know how they're going to keep this going with Becky until Wrestlemania, but damn I'm loving this ride.
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TheRock1525
02/05/19 8:06:54 PM
41
NBIceman posted...
That's not really a little touch so much as a focused piece of the story.


Unless I'm mistaken, the announcers aren't calling attention to it at all. That's why it's a little touch and not a focused piece of the story.
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TheRock ~ I had a name, my father called me Blues.
Jakyl25
02/05/19 8:07:55 PM
42
Call them all up. We need a brand reset for NXT. I love 205 Live and NXT UK, but I only watch NXT because its my job, its so stale.
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RaidenGarai
02/05/19 8:09:02 PM
43
The eyebrow raise while taunting Steph was amazing.
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NFUN
02/05/19 8:09:07 PM
44
Bloodninja: I lick your earlobe, and undo your watch.
Sarah19fca: mmmm, okay.
Bloodninja: I take yo pants off, grunting like a troll.
Sarah19fca: Yeah I like it rough.
Bloodninja: I smack you thick booty.
Sarah19fca: Oh yeah, that feels good.
Bloodninja: Smack, Smack, yeeeaahhh.
Bloodninja: I make some toast and eat it off your ass. Land O' Lakes butter all in your crack. Mmmm.
Sarah19fca: you like that?
Bloodninja: I peel some bananas.
Sarah19fca: Oh, what are you gonna do with those?
Bloodninja: get me peanuts. Peanuts from the ballpark.
Sarah19fca: Peanuts?
Bloodninja: Ken Griffey Jr. Yeaaaaahhh.
Sarah19fca: What are you talking about?
Bloodninja: I'm spent, I jump down into the alley and smoke a fatty. I throw rocks at the cats.
Sarah19fca: This is stupid.
Bloodninja: Stone Cold Steve Austin gives me some beer.
Bloodninja: Wanna Wrestle Stone Cold?
Bloodninja: Yeeaahhhh.
Sarah19fca: /ignore
Bloodninja: Its cool stone cold she was a bitch anyway.
Bloodninja: We get on harleys and ride into the sunset.
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NBIceman
02/05/19 8:10:42 PM
45
Jakyl25 posted...
The VOW guys also seem to not buy into the theory that people like Gargano, Ricochet, Ciampa, and Black arent called up already because Trips is hoarding them and only sending his castoffs to Vince. They wonder why theyre not on the main roster yet

I think that seems abundantly clear! Triple H has learned what happens!

Again, haven't listened to this episode, but I think something might've been lost in translation here. They were the first people I heard talking about how NXT was becoming a touring brand with less of a focus on development, and to expect that the big stars were going to stay down for longer.
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Lopen
02/05/19 8:10:53 PM
46
Hunter spending 3 minutes to repeat the same thing 40 times good promo
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RaidenGarai
02/05/19 8:12:50 PM
47
I want Becky to attack a different McMahon every week
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RaidenGarai
02/05/19 8:16:48 PM
48
Well SDL can only go downhill from there.
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Jakyl25
02/05/19 8:17:10 PM
49
NBIceman posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
The VOW guys also seem to not buy into the theory that people like Gargano, Ricochet, Ciampa, and Black arent called up already because Trips is hoarding them and only sending his castoffs to Vince. They wonder why theyre not on the main roster yet

I think that seems abundantly clear! Triple H has learned what happens!

Again, haven't listened to this episode, but I think something might've been lost in translation here. They were the first people I heard talking about how NXT was becoming a touring brand with less of a focus on development, and to expect that the big stars were going to stay down for longer.


January 24th
VOW Flagship: NJPW USA Disaster, Royal Rumble, Takeover
2:07:58 is where the thought Im describing starts, if you want to check it out to see what Im missing

EDIT: Goes on for 5-6 minutes
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NBIceman
02/05/19 8:29:21 PM
50
Jakyl25 posted...
NBIceman posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
The VOW guys also seem to not buy into the theory that people like Gargano, Ricochet, Ciampa, and Black arent called up already because Trips is hoarding them and only sending his castoffs to Vince. They wonder why theyre not on the main roster yet

I think that seems abundantly clear! Triple H has learned what happens!

Again, haven't listened to this episode, but I think something might've been lost in translation here. They were the first people I heard talking about how NXT was becoming a touring brand with less of a focus on development, and to expect that the big stars were going to stay down for longer.


January 24th
VOW Flagship: NJPW USA Disaster, Royal Rumble, Takeover
2:07:58 is where the thought Im describing starts, if you want to check it out to see what Im missing

EDIT: Goes on for 5-6 minutes

Yeah, to me it sounds less like they're confused as to why they haven't been called up so much as they'd like them to be called up because the main event scene of NXT has been more or less the same for a while now when there used to be pretty good turnover that kept it fresh. The exception is with Black, and their deal with him is that they think that he's largely overshadowed by the Gargano/Ciampa story even when he's the champion or challenger. Which I tend to agree with. At the TakeOver, it felt like nobody in the crowd was reacting all the way to Black/Ciampa because they were waiting for a Gargano run-in that never came.

Their confusion seems to be coming from a place of "why AREN'T they still using NXT as a feeder system to build future stars for the main roster?" rather than "why won't Trips get in Vince's ear to call these guys up?"
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