Current Events > WHy do people think Israel shouldn't be a country?

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Ryuko_Chan
11/21/18 1:17:03 AM
#1:


They were there first and Britain gave them it after WWII, theres really no reason for Palestine other than much feels
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Kazi1212
11/21/18 1:20:48 AM
#2:


I mean, what about the people that were already living there at the time Israel was handed over? Is it fair to them to have the land they lived on taken away from them on the basis that a different ethnicity of people lived on this land thousands of years ago?
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averagejoel
11/21/18 1:22:25 AM
#3:


because ethnostates are bad and apartheid is also bad, and israel is both
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ultimate reaver
11/21/18 1:22:33 AM
#4:


Much feels?
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eggcorn
11/21/18 1:23:42 AM
#5:


Oy vey
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TheDarkCircle
11/21/18 1:24:24 AM
#6:


averagejoel posted...
because ethnostates are bad and apartheid is also bad, and America is both


right?
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Kazi1212
11/21/18 1:27:39 AM
#7:


I mean, its not that ethnostates arent bad, its just that much of the world is composed of ethnostates. If youre going criticize Israel for being an ethnostate, you have to levy the same criticism against all the others. But theres certainly deeper and more specific reasons to be critical of Israel in particular imo
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Tyranthraxus
11/21/18 1:29:52 AM
#8:


Ryuko_Chan posted...
They were there first and Britain gave them it after WWII, theres really no reason for Palestine other than much feels

"They were there first" is a pretty heated debate that involves a very large amount up blown up archaeological ruins and artifacts that the groups that found didn't like what they implied.
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MakoReizei
11/21/18 1:31:11 AM
#9:


It's the Jewish homeland. Why shouldn't the Jews be there?
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averagejoel
11/21/18 1:31:45 AM
#10:


TheDarkCircle posted...
averagejoel posted...
because ethnostates are bad and apartheid is also bad, and America is both


right?

it's not a difficult concept
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Youngster_Joey_
11/21/18 1:32:26 AM
#11:


Because I'm still guilty about what people in my town said about Muslims and Arabs after 9/11
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MakoReizei
11/21/18 1:32:54 AM
#12:


Israel isn't apartheid and neither is America
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Dragonblade01
11/21/18 1:34:39 AM
#13:


I don't think they shouldn't be a country, but I also don't see why they deserve special treatment.
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Webmaster4531
11/21/18 1:36:39 AM
#14:


MakoReizei posted...
It's the Jewish homeland.

That's a fairy tale.
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Ryuko_Chan
11/21/18 1:37:51 AM
#15:


Sorry about the childish muh feels bit, it was a hook to ensure that people respond to the post

Dragonblade01 posted...
I don't think they shouldn't be a country, but I also don't see why they deserve special treatment.

Agreed
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LinksLiege
11/21/18 1:38:02 AM
#16:


Even if one side does have a more legitimate claim, there's a limit to how much awful shit you can do in the name of that cause before it finally reaches the point of "Nah, fuck your cause." Everything I've read/heard about the conflict suggests both sides are well past that point, and so I won't support either one.
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kayoticdreamz
11/21/18 1:39:26 AM
#17:


TheDarkCircle posted...
averagejoel posted...
because ethnostates are bad and apartheid is also bad, and America is both


right?


under what planet of reality is america currently an ethnostate?
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Tyranthraxus
11/21/18 1:40:42 AM
#18:


kayoticdreamz posted...
TheDarkCircle posted...
averagejoel posted...
because ethnostates are bad and apartheid is also bad, and America is both


right?


under what planet of reality is america currently an ethnostate?

the darkest one
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Kazi1212
11/21/18 1:40:53 AM
#19:


I dont get how you can have claim to a land if theres already been people living on that land for generations. Just seems like a confusing idea of land transfer to me
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Foppe
11/21/18 1:43:15 AM
#20:


The Palestine population are descendants to the original Jews living there.
If you look at their religion, then you will see that they are the only Muslims that have Jewish traditions.
Archeological sites shows that Jews and Muslims lived side by side in cities with great economies, it exist no proof that Jews were forced to leave the region.
A bigger part of modern Israelic Jews are descendants from people that converted to Judaism.
So tell me, who were there first?
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The_Doge
11/21/18 1:43:33 AM
#21:


ultimate reaver posted...
Much feels

Such emotion
Very apartheid
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Sativa_Rose
11/21/18 1:44:27 AM
#22:


Kazi1212 posted...
I dont get how you can have claim to a land if theres already been people living on that land for generations. Just seems like a confusing idea of land transfer to me


When two groups compete for the same land, the stronger group comes out on top. This is the story of human history, including the westward expansion of the US. Had the US not been able to militarily defeat the Native Americans on the battlefield, we never would have been able to take the land.

Israel would have been wiped out in both 1948 and 1967 had they lost either of those wars. The land is theirs now because they fought for it and won.
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Kazi1212
11/21/18 1:45:22 AM
#23:


Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious
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Sativa_Rose
11/21/18 1:46:11 AM
#24:


Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious


It doesn't really. All that matters is who wins on the battlefield.
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ThyCorndog
11/21/18 1:46:15 AM
#25:


palestinians are mostly direct descendants of the jews that lived in the region for thousands of years. they converted to islam and assimilated into speaking arabic like most other people groups in that region. "they were there first" isn't really true with regards to the european jews that moved there in the last century
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Kazi1212
11/21/18 1:46:46 AM
#26:


Sativa_Rose posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
I dont get how you can have claim to a land if theres already been people living on that land for generations. Just seems like a confusing idea of land transfer to me


When two groups compete for the same land, the stronger group comes out on top. This is the story of human history, including the westward expansion of the US. Had the US not been able to militarily defeat the Native Americans on the battlefield, we never would have been able to take the land.

Israel would have been wiped out in both 1948 and 1967 had they lost either of those wars. The land is theirs now because they fought for it and won.


Yea, Im not saying its not theirs now. I acknowledge that. But I mean when the land was handed over to them by the British, which is what this topic seems to be referring too. What was the justification for that land transfer?
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Webmaster4531
11/21/18 1:46:55 AM
#27:


Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious

Seems your timeline is completely wrong.
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Kazi1212
11/21/18 1:49:24 AM
#28:


Webmaster4531 posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious

Seems your timeline is completely wrong.


I assumed no timeline in my post, or at least that wasnt my main point. I asked a general question why people continuously bring up who was there first in regards to these discussions.
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Sativa_Rose
11/21/18 1:49:44 AM
#29:


Kazi1212 posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
I dont get how you can have claim to a land if theres already been people living on that land for generations. Just seems like a confusing idea of land transfer to me


When two groups compete for the same land, the stronger group comes out on top. This is the story of human history, including the westward expansion of the US. Had the US not been able to militarily defeat the Native Americans on the battlefield, we never would have been able to take the land.

Israel would have been wiped out in both 1948 and 1967 had they lost either of those wars. The land is theirs now because they fought for it and won.


Yea, Im not saying its not theirs now. I acknowledge that. But I mean when the land was handed over to them by the British, which is what this topic seems to be referring too. What was the justification for that land transfer?


This has some background. Basically the Jews wanted it and the British saw it as a smart move politically because they believed the new Jewish state would be aligned towards them and give the British a sphere of influence in the region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

So it's typical geopolitical stuff, but such is the case for many countries that exist today.
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GFAQz
11/21/18 1:59:49 AM
#30:


Webmaster4531 posted...
MakoReizei posted...
It's the Jewish homeland.

That's a fairy tale.

How?
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averagejoel
11/21/18 2:00:46 AM
#31:


Tyranthraxus posted...
kayoticdreamz posted...
TheDarkCircle posted...
averagejoel posted...
because ethnostates are bad and apartheid is also bad, and America is both


right?


under what planet of reality is america currently an ethnostate?

the darkest one

I admit I did not thoroughly read the response to my post before responding
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iClockwork
11/21/18 2:01:55 AM
#32:


Kazi1212 posted...
I mean, what about the people that were already living there at the time Israel was handed over? Is it fair to them to have the land they lived on taken away from them on the basis that a different ethnicity of people lived on this land thousands of years ago?

Thats like saying a thief should keep the watch he stole becasue when the police caught him he already was in possession of it.
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Kazi1212
11/21/18 2:10:29 AM
#33:


iClockwork posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
I mean, what about the people that were already living there at the time Israel was handed over? Is it fair to them to have the land they lived on taken away from them on the basis that a different ethnicity of people lived on this land thousands of years ago?

Thats like saying a thief should keep the watch he stole becasue when the police caught him he already was in possession of it.


True. I guess if Native Americans ever amasses the physical force required the topple the US and take our land, they would be perfectly justified in doing so because we stole their land first. Good thing we already wiped them near extinction though lol
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Sativa_Rose
11/21/18 2:12:40 AM
#34:


"War does not determine who is right only who is left." - Bertrand Russell
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Webmaster4531
11/21/18 2:34:37 AM
#35:


GFAQz posted...
Webmaster4531 posted...
MakoReizei posted...
It's the Jewish homeland.

That's a fairy tale.

How?

Because Holy Land isn't a thing.
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hockeybub89
11/21/18 2:53:41 AM
#36:


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GrindcoreShark
11/21/18 2:54:11 AM
#37:


Because up until after WW2 that land was known as Palestine for 400 years and it hadn't been known as Israel for over 2000 years. The Palestinians have actual claim to that land that isn't "MUH RELIGION"

https://imgur.com/IedTHhW
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Delta_F14
11/21/18 3:06:35 AM
#38:


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Oatcakes
11/21/18 3:27:46 AM
#39:


Sativa_Rose posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious


It doesn't really. All that matters is who wins on the battlefield.


So if we have a battle at your house and I win, I get dibs?

Brb
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Dragonblade01
11/21/18 3:29:45 AM
#40:


Oatcakes posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious


It doesn't really. All that matters is who wins on the battlefield.


So if we have a battle at your house and I win, I get dibs?

Brb

Do you also have another nation supporting you and are willing to engage in a long, drawn-out war over it?
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Sativa_Rose
11/21/18 4:16:40 AM
#41:


Oatcakes posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious


It doesn't really. All that matters is who wins on the battlefield.


So if we have a battle at your house and I win, I get dibs?

Brb


It's not me personally you'd be fighting, but the United States military. But yeah, if you beat them in a war, you can keep the country. Who's gonna stop you? If anyone tries, just beat them too and you'll keep it no problem.
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Oatcakes
11/21/18 9:31:03 AM
#42:


Sativa_Rose posted...
Oatcakes posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious


It doesn't really. All that matters is who wins on the battlefield.


So if we have a battle at your house and I win, I get dibs?

Brb


It's not me personally you'd be fighting, but the United States military. But yeah, if you beat them in a war, you can keep the country. Who's gonna stop you? If anyone tries, just beat them too and you'll keep it no problem.


I don't want the country, I want the house
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Sativa_Rose
11/21/18 4:34:03 PM
#43:


Oatcakes posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
Oatcakes posted...
Sativa_Rose posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
Why the hell does it matter who was there first? Why does it matter more who lived there thousands of years ago as opposed to people who had been living there presently? Can someone explain that to me? Honestly curious


It doesn't really. All that matters is who wins on the battlefield.


So if we have a battle at your house and I win, I get dibs?

Brb


It's not me personally you'd be fighting, but the United States military. But yeah, if you beat them in a war, you can keep the country. Who's gonna stop you? If anyone tries, just beat them too and you'll keep it no problem.


I don't want the country, I want the house


You have to take on the whole country to take the house. All I have to do is call the cops and then you have to fight the cops. If you beat the cops, they will call for backup and get even more cops. If you beat them, then they will call the National Guard. You have to beat everyone in order to win. Otherwise they will bring your ass out in a bodybag.
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rikasa
11/21/18 4:39:41 PM
#44:


They decided they have to exist on top of a country that already existed and a lot of people are upset that they're murdering innocent people because they want the real estate.
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Questionmarktarius
11/21/18 4:48:24 PM
#45:


I'm still sticking with my own silly proposal: Evacuate the entire population of Israel to Wyoming.
Everyone involved would be better off out of the deal.
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EliteLevel
11/21/18 5:30:28 PM
#46:


Who lived there before the Jews did?
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SchoolForAnts
11/21/18 5:54:01 PM
#47:


Ryuko_Chan posted...
They were there first and Britain gave them it after WWII, theres really no reason for Palestine other than much feels


Why did the UK create this mess and the US is left to deal with it?
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darkjedilink
11/21/18 6:02:15 PM
#48:


averagejoel posted...
because ethnostates are bad and apartheid is also bad, and israel is both

Everything after the comma is false.
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darkjedilink
11/21/18 6:14:00 PM
#49:


rikasa posted...
They decided they have to exist on top of a country that already existed and a lot of people are upset that they're murdering innocent people because they want the real estate.

Yes, a lot of people are mad that Palestinians are murdering innocent people by the hundreds on a daily basis because they want the real estate.

So why do people want Isreal gone?
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tennisdude818
11/21/18 6:16:56 PM
#50:


Im not saying they shouldnt be a country. Im saying we shouldnt provide them with any welfare.
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