Current Events > Let's talk about why there's no actual 3D Pokemon game in 2018 going on 2019

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is Pokemon squandering potential?

Why is there no title that fucks with Breath of the Wild?

Does Nintendo not like money??

These are the questions on my mind.
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Dey are waiting for virtual reality
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Mainline Pokmon is never going to leave turn based battles if that's what you're referring to.
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Darmik posted...

Mainline Pokmon is never going to leave turn based battles if that's what you're referring to.

Why
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We need to hope for Detective Pikachu: The Movie: The Game next year.
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SwayM posted...

Darmik posted...

Mainline Pokmon is never going to leave turn based battles if that's what you're referring to.

Why

Because creating an action RPG that needs live action gameplay for a minimum 150 Pokmon requires a budget that would make Rockstar blush.

That's not even going into the risk of alienating a lot of their audience. Pokmon is an easy pick up and play game because of its turn based mechanics.

It also simply doesn't have any real competition in the genre.

I could go on and on. It would be a risky and ultimately bad decision.

A spin-off BOTW style game where you can play as a handful of Pokmon is a bit more realistic.
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It's only been two years since Sun and Moon were released....
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Darmik posted...

Because creating an action RPG that needs live action gameplay for a minimum 150 Pokmon requires a budget that would make Rockstar blush.

lol

Do you seriously believe this?

There is a world where a company such as Rockstar could take this game do absolutely AMAZING things with it. But Nintendo isn't capable of getting anywhere close to that.

RDR has 500 000 lines of dialogue. 300 000 animations and looks fucking PHENOMENAL. No, Nintendo wouldn't be able to touch that with a thousand foot pole. They would do the bare minimum.

Darmik posted...

That's not even going into the risk of alienating a lot of their audience.

"You know that game you love? We're going to make the biggest, best version of it we possibly can'

"No please don't"

Yeah there's no risk here. There's a lot of time, effort and money needed but it's not a risk. Not to a competent developer.
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SwayM posted...

Darmik posted...

Because creating an action RPG that needs live action gameplay for a minimum 150 Pokmon requires a budget that would make Rockstar blush.

lol

Do you seriously believe this?

There is a world where a company such as Rockstar could take this game do absolutely AMAZING things with it. But Nintendo isn't capable of getting anywhere close to that.

RDR has 500 000 lines of dialogue. 300 000 animations and looks fucking PHENOMENAL. No, Nintendo wouldn't be able to touch that with a thousand foot pole. They would do the bare minimum.

Darmik posted...

That's not even going into the risk of alienating a lot of their audience.

"You know that game you love? We're going to make the biggest, best version of it we possibly can'

"No please don't"

Yeah there's no risk here. There's a lot of time, effort and money needed but it's not a risk. Not to a competent developer.

Go ahead and make a game with 150 characters that feel somewhat unique. When you're done let's bring in the other 650.
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Darmik posted...

Mainline Pokmon is never going to leave turn based battles if that's what you're referring to.

They can make a semi realistic 3D RPG and still keep the turn based system. Or maybe update it to be like the atb system from final fantasy
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You're supposed to milk desperate fans willing to buy whatever shit has the brand name on it a bit before you deliver something they actually want.

LordFarquad1312 posted...

Go ahead and make a game with 150 characters that feel somewhat unique. When you're done let's bring in the other 650.

What are you trying to accomplish with this argument?

I can't do it therefore Nintendo can't either?
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Raikuro posted...

You're supposed to milk desperate fans willing to buy whatever shit has the brand name on it a bit before you deliver something they actually want.

Let's hope 'Let's Go' is the final nail before the delivery of what we actually want
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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Do you seriously believe this?

Yeah.

Where are all of the AAA action games with 150 playable characters?

Hell where are all of the AAA action games where you play as monsters and not as a human who runs around and either shoots or slashes people?

SwayM posted...

"You know that game you love? We're going to make the biggest, best version of it we possibly can'

"No please don't"

Yeah there's no risk here. There's a lot of time, effort and money needed but it's not a risk. Not to a competent developer.

You're not asking them to make bigger and better versions of Pokmon. You want them to ditch the primary gameplay mechanic.

Do you think the 10ish million people who play Pokmon all know how to play action games?
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Darmik posted...

Where are all of the AAA action games with 150 playable characters?

Hell where are all of the AAA action games where you play as monsters and not as a human who runs around and either shoots or slashes people?

Your argument here is that Pokemon is a niche genre and you don't see a lot of clones, this says nothing about the work required. And of course you don't see clones. It would be risky for any other company to attempt to create a Pokemon clone because you don't have nostalgia and brand recognition on your side. Again this has nothing to do with it being a lot of work.

But more to the point. They've made "3D" sprites for many of their games,. Hey I'm not saying the game would make itself and that it would be no effort at all but you're GREATLY overestimating the work it would take for, arguments sake, just the original 150 Pokemon. Especially when conceptually, all the work is done for you. We all know what Snorlax and Psyduck is, the groundwork is all laid out for them they just have to animate them. Again, not saying it would be "easy" to get all the animations and movement right for them, but it wouldn't be nearly has hard as you're making it out to be.

Darmik posted...

You're not asking them to make bigger and better versions of Pokmon. You want them to ditch the primary gameplay mechanic.

Do you think the 10ish million people who play Pokmon all know how to play action games?

You know the Anime exists right? It's essentially "A bigger better version of Pokemon" and isn't limited by the confines of a turn based RPG.

Stop being unable to look beyond what it currently is.

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/top-10/

This is a list of the best selling games. How many RPG's do you see in there? Do you think this game, if done correctly, wouldn't sell like gangbusters? Beacuse that's literally all that matters. Companies clearly don't give two shits about alienating their audience and Nintendo has shown zero track record of that. Otherwise they wouldn't have made Metroid prime for example, and would have given a lot more support to some of their less popular IP's (Star Fox for example). If you want to talk about alienating fans, completely ignoring franchises or putting out half assed games is FAR worse.

Assuming this game was made, and made as well as it could be. You're still going to get the hardcore Pokemon fans, you're going to get the action game fans, you're going to get the nostalgia crowd, you're going to get the people who have been looking for something more from this series, you're going to attract people who didn't even really give two shits about Pokemon but suddenly it's looking hype as fuck.

Anyone lost wouldn't even register in the slightest. And in what world do you think that two very different pieces of media should capture 100% of the same audience? Does everyone who bought a ticket to Spider-Man Homecoming need to play Spider-man (PS4)? No. That's not how this works.

Alienating fans by making the most ambitious, immersive version of that experience. Sure thing.
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Pokemon Go wasn't 3d?
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What about the GameCube games? I haven't played them but they look pretty 3d to me.
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smoke_break posted...

What about the GameCube games? I haven't played them but they look pretty 3d to me.

Are they big open world immersive Pokmon games?
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Bumpo
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Darmik posted...

SwayM posted...

Darmik posted...

Mainline Pokmon is never going to leave turn based battles if that's what you're referring to.

Why

Because creating an action RPG that needs live action gameplay for a minimum 150 Pokmon requires a budget that would make Rockstar blush.

That's not even going into the risk of alienating a lot of their audience. Pokmon is an easy pick up and play game because of its turn based mechanics.

It also simply doesn't have any real competition in the genre.

I could go on and on. It would be a risky and ultimately bad decision.

A spin-off BOTW style game where you can play as a handful of Pokmon is a bit more realistic.

Zoids did it on the GameCube though.
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Remember when you weren't here for a while? Let's go back to that.
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SwayM posted...

Darmik posted...

Mainline Pokmon is never going to leave turn based battles if that's what you're referring to.

Why

Look at the original Zelda on NES

Now look at Zelda 2

There might be a sequel to Pokken with all pokes and travelling in an overworld but it's not gonna be a main line Pokmon game. It's only gonna happen in the best timeline
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They're working on it.
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awesome999 posted...

SwayM posted...

Darmik posted...

Mainline Pokmon is never going to leave turn based battles if that's what you're referring to.

Why

Look at the original Zelda on NES

Now look at Zelda 2

There might be a sequel to Pokken with all pokes and travelling in an overworld but it's not gonna be a main line Pokmon game. It's only gonna happen in the best timeline

What the hell is this post?

Your argument is Zelda 2??

MC_BatCommander posted...

They're working on it.

You think so?
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Far as I know the next generation of Pokemon games was already confirmed. Ultra Sun and Moon just came out last year.
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SwayM posted...

Your argument here is that Pokemon is a niche genre and you don't see a lot of clones, this says nothing about the work required. And of course you don't see clones. It would be risky for any other company to attempt to create a Pokemon clone because you don't have nostalgia and brand recognition on your side. Again this has nothing to do with it being a lot of work.

I'm not even just talking about copying the concept.

There's a reason we rarely see games where you play as four legged creatures. Because it's hard. Hell we barely see the variety of a Pokmon game in a AAA game when it comes to enemies. Never mind playable characters.

SwayM posted...

But more to the point. They've made "3D" sprites for many of their games,. Hey I'm not saying the game would make itself and that it would be no effort at all but you're GREATLY overestimating the work it would take for, arguments sake, just the original 150 Pokemon. Especially when conceptually, all the work is done for you. We all know what Snorlax and Psyduck is, the groundwork is all laid out for them they just have to animate them. Again, not saying it would be "easy" to get all the animations and movement right for them, but it wouldn't be nearly has hard as you're making it out to be.

Animate them to do what? How would it play? How do you make a character like Muk and Rapidash fun to play in combat? How would you juggle between 6 Pokmon? How do you enter combat with a wild pokemon compared to trainers in a AAA open world game? How do battles play out?

It would be completely different.

SwayM posted...

You know the Anime exists right? It's essentially "A bigger better version of Pokemon" and isn't limited by the confines of a turn based RPG.

Stop being unable to look beyond what it currently is.

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/top-10/

This is a list of the best selling games. How many RPG's do you see in there? Do you think this game, if done correctly, wouldn't sell like gangbusters? Beacuse that's literally all that matters. Companies clearly don't give two shits about alienating their audience and Nintendo has shown zero track record of that. Otherwise they wouldn't have made Metroid prime for example, and would have given a lot more support to some of their less popular IP's (Star Fox for example). If you want to talk about alienating fans, completely ignoring franchises or putting out half assed games is FAR worse.

Assuming this game was made, and made as well as it could be. You're still going to get the hardcore Pokemon fans, you're going to get the action game fans, you're going to get the nostalgia crowd, you're going to get the people who have been looking for something more from this series, you're going to attract people who didn't even really give two shits about Pokemon but suddenly it's looking hype as fuck.

Anyone lost wouldn't even register in the slightest. And in what world do you think that two very different pieces of media should capture 100% of the same audience? Does everyone who bought a ticket to Spider-Man Homecoming need to play Spider-man (PS4)? No. That's not how this works.

Alienating fans by making the most ambitious, immersive version of that experience. Sure thing.

You're acting like Pokmon already isn't one of the most popular gaming franchises out there. Sun/Moon sold over 16 million.
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MC_BatCommander posted...

Far as I know the next generation of Pokemon games was already confirmed. Ultra Sun and Moon just came out last year.

He knows that. He's basically another ZombieBird.
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Why can't Nintendo put out a good Paper Mario game
What are they afraid of
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lol

Do you seriously believe this?

There is a world where a company such as Rockstar could take this game do absolutely AMAZING things with it. But Nintendo isn't capable of getting anywhere close to that.

RDR has 500 000 lines of dialogue. 300 000 animations and looks fucking PHENOMENAL. No, Nintendo wouldn't be able to touch that with a thousand foot pole. They would do the bare minimum.

The problem with pokemon is needing animations for almost 1,000 unique models, without having them look like shit. How would you go about that? You could have mons with similar body types share animation cycles, but that can very quickly look lazy.
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They're still developing Gen 8 for 2019, they've said as much...be patient. They just did the Let's Go games as a casual experiment for those who liked Pokemon Go.
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Darmik posted...

There's a reason we rarely see games where you play as four legged creatures. Because it's hard. Hell we barely see the variety of a Pokmon game in a AAA game when it comes to enemies. Never mind playable characters.

Again, this says nothing about it "Being hard to do" there's 4 legged creatures in THOUSANDS of games, animated deer, horses, etc, etc etc. If they were hard to animate, you wouldn't see them. Clearly not the case and this is just a really bad argument.

You don't play as them for an entirely different reason, because humans prefer to play as anthropomorphic characters.

Darmik posted...

Animate them to do what? How would it play? How do you make a character like Muk and Rapidash fun to play in combat? How would you juggle between 6 Pokmon? How do you enter combat with a wild pokemon compared to trainers in a AAA open world game? How do battles play out? How do you balance multiplayer?

It would be completely different.

These are irrelevant questions the developer would have to answer And nothing you just said seems problematic at all. I'm not a developer, but I know games solve "problems" like these all the time.

Darmik posted...

You're acting like Pokmon already isn't one of the most popular gaming franchises out there. Sun/Moon sold over 16 million.

No. I'm acting like RPG's typically don't sell well, action games are always top of the charts and an AAA, high budget action based Pokemon game, would sell ridiculously well.

I'm acting like Pokemon sells real well, imagine if they made the best Pokemon game they could possibly make.

MC_BatCommander posted...

Far as I know the next generation of Pokemon games was already confirmed. Ultra Sun and Moon just came out last year.

I'm clearly not asking for the same old shit with a new name. I'm talking something a lot bigger, and a lot better.
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It took League of Legends almost 10 years just to get 141 characters + some extras for the creeps.

I specifically used this as my example because:

1 the graphics are shit compared to what people expect (easier to animate)
2 every character has an extremely limited move set that is comparable to Pokemon, but since Pokemon can change those moves via leveling, tms, hms, breeding, etc, it's actually much harder to account for all those animations.
3 the game makes money hand over fist. It blows every other single Nintendo IP out of the water in terms of profits.

Now you want to take this as your base and:
Increase character count to over 800
Improve the graphics
Multiply animated moves by 5/6 times
Reduce the budget
Add a bunch of Rockstar isms to the game like Nico Bowling or some shit

You're taking about something completely unreasonable. It's not a matter of whether or not you can do it. No one can, not for the money you want.
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Why does Pokmon have to be that game?
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CM_Ponch posted...

Why does Pokmon have to be that game?

It doesn't. I'm just saying this is why the turn based system will never go away
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Itll be out next November

Too long though :(
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Tyranthraxus posted...

CM_Ponch posted...

Why does Pokmon have to be that game?

It doesn't. I'm just saying this is why the turn based system will never go away

No, I'm asking TC why Pokmon needs to be open world
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I can totally see Pokmon going more open for the next game. Maybe even full blown open world.

But it's still gonna have the same Pokmon gameplay overall. Probably similar visual style too.
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Conflict posted...

SwayM posted...

RDR has 500 000 lines of dialogue. 300 000 animations and looks fucking PHENOMENAL.

lol

One of the funniest things I've read all year

CE has the weirdest people
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I for one don't want an arpg Pokemon. I like turn based, and Pokemon is one of the few decent ones left.
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Conflict posted...

On top of thinking RDR2 looks "phenomenal" when there's already a load of heavy-handed criticism on the game's obnoxious simulation aspects. Spoiler alert: more content does not automatically equal 'amazing game'

Also RDR2 had 8 years of development time, so saying "Why doesn't Nintendo just commit to that much work?" is silly.
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Keep in mind this is the jabroni that started the comparisons to RDR

Darmik posted...

Because creating an action RPG that needs live action gameplay for a minimum 150 Pokmon requires a budget that would make Rockstar blush.

I think its beyond ridiculous to ever assume Pokmon would ever get to that level. Its not going to happen. It would be a big game but this is on a whole different level.

Also if you have a problem with RDR 2 lol go deal with it in another topic and also maybe try to convince all the people who are raving about it to change their mind. God we got some weirdos here.
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Err the comparison was made because it would take an insane budget to make the game you're asking for.
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Darmik posted...

Err the comparison was made because it would take an insane budget to make the game you're asking for.

Theres big budgets and theres insane budgets.

You went off the deep ending hour compaisons. It wouldnt get to that level. Theres no way.
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Conflict posted...

SwayM posted...

Also if you have a problem with RDR 2 lol go deal with it in another topic and also maybe try to convince all the people who are raving about it to change their mind. God we got some weirdos here.

Idc to change anyone's mind, I'm just here to spell certain things out for you, because you evidently don't understand anything

It seems youre only here to be upset when presented with facts about RDR2s development.
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