Current Events > Goku actually has a shot at beating Superman now.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ultimate reaver posted...

imagine some dork running up to you and holding his hand in your face and screaming DESTRUCTION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KX1dUCkgM" data-time="
---

apocalyptic_4 posted...

And goku likes a straight up fight not using shit like that for a easy win.

This is such a damn fanboy excuse.

They wouldn't kill each other at all if they are in character so going "in character they wouldn't do that" is just dumb.

It really just becomes excuses at this point

"No Superman would win a deathbattle because Goku would intentionally lose."

Ok....
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

And goku likes a straight up fight not using shit like that for a easy win.

This is such a damn fanboy excuse.

They wouldn't kill each other at all if they are in character so going "in character they wouldn't do that" is just dumb.

It really just becomes excuses at this point

"No Superman would win a deathbattle because Goku would intentionally lose."

Ok....

if you're assuming that they are fighting at their most ruthless, then as soon as the fight starts Goku is dead. He won't have time to do a Hakai because by the time he even thinks about lifting his arm he's dead.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

And goku likes a straight up fight not using shit like that for a easy win.

This is such a damn fanboy excuse.

They wouldn't kill each other at all if they are in character so going "in character they wouldn't do that" is just dumb.

It really just becomes excuses at this point

"No Superman would win a deathbattle because Goku would intentionally lose."

Ok....

Doesn't negate the fact that you were factually wrong about the rest of it
---

No he doesn't.

>Superman is so boring because he so powerful
>Goku can beat Superman because he's more powerful now

UnfairRepresent posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

And goku likes a straight up fight not using shit like that for a easy win.

This is such a damn fanboy excuse.

They wouldn't kill each other at all if they are in character so going "in character they wouldn't do that" is just dumb.

It really just becomes excuses at this point

"No Superman would win a deathbattle because Goku would intentionally lose."

Ok....

In that case its over quicker. Out of character superman speed blitz and punches his head off.
---

fire_bolt posted...

Friendly reminder that Supes is casually FTL all the time and Goku explicitly is NOT FTL.

As of the Tournament of Power Gokus SSJG form is keeping up with a guy that is stated faster than light and on top of that his SSJB form is at least twice as powerful (strength and speed go hand in hand) as the former. Not to mention that he can multiply his power by up to x20 and he has mastered Ultra Instinct in his back pocket.

Superman still wins though.
---

The issue is that there is no concrete definition to what "x20" and the like actually means in Dragon Ball. You can safely say someone is faster (yet how much is never demonstrated) and you'll notice argument arises because they weren't specific, as that's how the series is flexibly written. That's usually the heart of most of these versus topics. They require assumptions that everyone won't and probably cannot agree upon.
---

ViewtifulGrave posted...

As of the Tournament of Power Gokus SSJG form is keeping up with a guy that is stated faster than light

And it also explicitly states that Goku is slower than FTL, he's keeping up with the guy through sheer power of prediction due to his excellent knowledge as a fighter.

Really, that feat is pretty good (especially in universe) but we can't really measure how much faster than light Dyspo is. On the flip side, we know more or less exactly how much faster than light Supes is and he is ridiculously fast. He consistently keeps pace with The Flash (albeit he is somewhat slower) and Flash has raced from one end of the universe to the other against someone who can teleport and Flash won.
---

Lathissamus posted...

nicklebro posted...

Superman died from getting stabbed by doomsday. Doomsday is not stronger than Goku. Goku solos Superman without even going SSJ. This has actually been objectively proven when me and my cousin let it come down to an arm wrestling match and I won. Lol little 6 year old thought he had a chance, dumb fuck.

I'm allowed to post insults of people that aren't here that are my own family right?

bruh i died

---

fire_bolt posted...

ViewtifulGrave posted...

As of the Tournament of Power Gokus SSJG form is keeping up with a guy that is stated faster than light

And it also explicitly states that Goku is slower than FTL, he's keeping up with the guy through sheer power of prediction due to his excellent knowledge as a fighter.

Really, that feat is pretty good (especially in universe) but we can't really measure how much faster than light Dyspo is. On the flip side, we know more or less exactly how much faster than light Supes is and he is ridiculously fast. He consistently keeps pace with The Flash (albeit he is somewhat slower) and Flash has raced from one end of the universe to the other against someone who can teleport and Flash won.

Flash is far faster.

Goku is never stated to be slower than light.

Dyspo is stated to have exponentially increased his speed all time time to surpass sound, light and further more.

So a guy exponentially faster than light outspeeding someone while they can still keep up, isn't an anti-feat.
---

Kobe8Bryant24 posted...

The issue is that there is no concrete definition to what "x20" and the like actually means in Dragon Ball.

Yes there is. It multiplies Gokus current power by what integer he calls out.

For example back when Goku first fought Vegeta he had a PL of about 8000. Now he uses the Kaioken and that doubles his PL so now hes around 16,000, but still no match for Vegetas 18,000. So Goku bumps it up to x3 which now puts him at 24,000 now he has a solid advantage in strength and speed over Vegeta.

Another example is when Goku uses the Kaioken on Ginyu. Ginyu got a reading of 180,000, now divide that by two and you get 90,000 Gokus base PL at the time.
---

fire_bolt posted...

And it also explicitly states that Goku is slower than FTL, he's keeping up with the guy through sheer power of prediction due to his excellent knowledge as a fighter.

It doesnt really matter how good of a fighter one is if they dont have the speed to compete.
---

ViewtifulGrave posted...

Kobe8Bryant24 posted...

The issue is that there is no concrete definition to what "x20" and the like actually means in Dragon Ball.

Yes there is. It multiplies Gokus current power by what integer he calls out.

For example back when Goku first fought Vegeta he had a PL of about 8000. Now he uses the Kaioken and that doubles his PL so now hes around 16,000, but still no match for Vegetas 18,000. So Goku bumps it up to x3 which now puts him at 24,000 now he has a solid advantage in strength and speed over Vegeta.

Another example is when Goku uses the Kaioken on Ginyu. Ginyu got a reading of 180,000, now divide that by two and you get 90,000 Gokus base PL at the time.

You're arguing the definition, which everyone is aware of. I'm explaining that numbers aren't telling a story. If I say I am 4x stronger than something, you know that I am stronger but by what measure? Myself? Another, opposing force claiming to be 2x stronger than themselves? It doesn't mean anything significant. It's not particularly based on science and these fictional stories aren't attempting to do so.
---

lol tbh DBS is probably Toriyama's excuse to try and make Goku win this hypothetical fight
---

juicebox4 posted...

lol tbh DBS is probably Toriyama's excuse to try and make Goku win this hypothetical fight

The author and rightholders have shown no evidence of paying attention or writing to match what fans online want answers to.
---

juicebox4 posted...

lol tbh DBS is probably Toriyama's excuse to try and make Goku win this hypothetical fight

It's actually because of Dragon Ball Evolution being the abomination that it was.
---

Kobe8Bryant24 posted...

If I say I am 4x stronger than something, you know that I am stronger but by what measure? Myself?

You just answered your own question.
---

I feel you're going out of your way to ignore the broader message.
---

Godnorgosh posted...

St0rmFury posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

I'm not sure about Superman, but no fictional comic or manga character defeats Superman Prime except maybe One-Above-All.

What about Saitama?

I was considering listing him, but not too sure tbh

The thing about Saitama is that he can't be fairly compared at all to anyone because we've never seen any upper limit to his strength. He just instantly wins everything.
---

CommonStar posted...

>Superman is so boring because he so powerful
>Goku can beat Superman because he's more powerful now

That's because you miss the point of Superman. It's not about his fights. It's about how he deals with being a god living with mortals and wanting to have mortal morals despite him being able to do anything he wants and get away with it.

Superman lives by a code even though nothing would stop him from just taking over the world. He's got the soul and heart of a human inside the body of a god and his best stories are about the human side of him. When he inspires people. Like sitting on the roof of a building and chatting for hours with a suicidal person until they want to come down

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/Ijdxh

Goku has never and will never have a shot at beating Supes.
---

Kobe8Bryant24 posted...

I feel you're going out of your way to ignore the broader message.

Youre not making any sense. The Kaioken has been clearly defined within the manga and anime. There is nothing ambiguous or vague about the how the multiplier works.

Maybe you can break it down for me?
---

How would superman beat Goku? Like he's not as fast, his laser eyes are cute compared to gokus ki blasts, let alone Kamehamehas n shit. They're probably equal in strength. And what everyone seems to be ignoring, Goku is a far superior fighter. Like he actually trains in martial arts whereas superman has no real training at all. Goku is a martial arts master, superman is just strong and fast and can fly.

I really don't get why anyone says supes. Like what is it that he does to Goku that leads to him winning? Punches him? He's not as fast, is around the same strength, but isn't nearly on his level skillwise. So no, he never lands a single strike against a master of the martial arts who is faster than him. So how? Tell me!
---

nicklebro posted...

How would superman beat Goku? Like he's not as fast, his laser eyes are cute compared to gokus ki blasts, let alone Kamehamehas n shit. They're probably equal in strength. And what everyone seems to be ignoring, Goku is a far superior fighter. Like he actually trains in martial arts whereas superman has no real training at all. Goku is a martial arts master, superman is just strong and fast and can fly.

I really don't get why anyone says supes. Like what is it that he does to Goku that leads to him winning? Punches him? He's not as fast, is around the same strength, but isn't nearly on his level skillwise. So no, he never lands a single strike against a master of the martial arts who is faster than him. So how? Tell me!

The biggest issue is that Superman never really takes damage, unless it's Kryptonite.
---

SpinKirby posted...

The biggest issue is that Superman never really takes damage, unless it's Kryptonite.

Again, didn't doomsday kill him without kryptonite? Goku ain't weaker than doomsday, I told you, it's been settled.

nicklebro posted...

Superman died from getting stabbed by doomsday. Doomsday is not stronger than Goku. Goku solos Superman without even going SSJ. This has actually been objectively proven when me and my cousin let it come down to an arm wrestling match and I won. Lol little 6 year old thought he had a chance, dumb fuck.

I'm allowed to post insults of people that aren't here that are my own family right?

---

Wariodorf posted...

nicklebro posted...

Like he actually trains in martial arts whereas superman has no real training at all. Goku is a martial arts master, superman is just strong and fast and can fly.

Superman has had training from Wonder Woman, Batman, Mongul, and Wildcat. He also has Kryptonian martial arts he uses

That's all bullshit and you know it. Look how they actually fight. Goku is throwing kicks and blocking shit and having awesome exchanges, superman just traded haymakers like he's in a bar fight.

Batman is the only one of those that has any real actual fighting skill.
---

nicklebro posted...

Again, didn't doomsday kill him without kryptonite? Goku ain't weaker than doomsday, I told you, it's been settled.

Doomsday kills just about everyone who doesn't have some insane gimmick though.

Goku couldn't even solo Broly or his shitatistic knockoff, and the resulting fanbait fusion.
---

SpinKirby posted...

nicklebro posted...

Again, didn't doomsday kill him without kryptonite? Goku ain't weaker than doomsday, I told you, it's been settled.

Doomsday kills just about everyone who doesn't have some insane gimmick though.

Goku couldn't even solo Broly or his shitatistic knockoff, and the resulting fanbait fusion.

Broly solos everyone, Broly>Goku>Doomsday>Superman

Wariodorf posted...

You said he had no real training. I proved he did. Where am I wrong? I get you're trolling now, but come on, you can do better

I'm not trolling bro. I just disagree with you about which fake character would win in a fight, dont be like that man let's keep it friendly. And tbh I didn't know about half the things you just mentioned. But anyways

I said real training. He hasn't had any real training. A couple lessons here and there from people that aren't all that skilled themselves isn't even close to the lifetime of training Goku has been through. Batman went through his ninja training and is there for an actual skilled combatant, the rest nay have some rudimentary knowledge of fighting, but nothing like the martial arts masters Goku has trained under. Plus, Superman's writing has been super inconsistent but is usually depicted as a brawler, whereas Goku's mastery of martial arts is apparent not only through the storylines where he is constantly getting better masters to train under and talking about training, but in his actual fights they look far more technically sound than supermans. I mean once in a while Superman will catch a punch and then judo throw a dude, that's the extent of his skill really.

Just look at any superman cartoon and any goju fight scene and tell me superman is even in the same ballpark as goku skillwise.
---

Should have used the Mafuba
---