Current Events > I'm starting to understand Hollywood's apathy toward video games.

(+) Yeah! (+)

HylianFox posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

with the exception of a duo of characters designated for comedic relief,

ugh

Marvel has proven that you can have splashes of humor throughout your otherwise serious story, but designated "comic relief" characters are almost always awful and people hate them

All he did was basically pitch "What if a Disney animated movie...but Mario?'
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Darmik posted...

Sounds like a generic DreamWorks movie tbh. Like a worse How to Train Your Dragon.

I think I'd be reasonably happy with a "generic DreamWorks movie." I've never seen How to Train Your Dragon, but it rests at 8.1 on IMDb in contrast to Super Mario Bros.: The Movie which stands at an even 4.0 out of 10. Even a lesser version of something like that would stand tall next to the 1993 movie.

HylianFox posted...

ugh

Marvel has proven that you can have splashes of humor throughout your otherwise serious story, but designated "comic relief" characters are almost always awful and people hate them

I know, designated comic relief characters are more likely to be annoying than funny. When it comes to characters who play mean-spirited pranks on protagonists or grovel at their wicked master's feet, the potential for annoyance is considerably less than when the good guy's buddy is standing off to the side saying, "Look at how silly I am."

There's a method to it. If you have a menacing villain, parents might complain that they're too dark or children might be intimidated by them. But if you give that villain a cowardly henchman who's constantly groveling, the fear rests with the henchman instead of the impressionable audience. It allows you to push the envelope a little with what the villain is capable of.

And if those henchmen are annoying, then we'll enjoy seeing them get their comeuppance. Remember, they're villains; not heroes. Their screentime is considerably less than that of a Mario or Luigi. So we're talking maybe four to six minutes of screentime if you break out your stopwatch and count the seconds they're on screen.

Darmik posted...

All he did was basically pitch "What if a Disney animated movie...but Mario?'

If you don't see Disney when you look at Mario, what do you see? The first Super Mario Bros. game is basically Journey to the West meets Alice in Wonderland.

I see Mario. A cheerful mascot hero who's a plumber.

I don't want Shrek with less pop culture references. That's boring and we've seen it a million times now. I want a movie that embraces the history of the character that's filled with fan service and charm. Sorta similar to what Mario Odyssey does.

Hell if we go towards a completely unoriginal route I think I'd rather see Space Jam Mario than Shrek Mario lol.
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Darmik posted...

I see Mario. A cheerful mascot hero who's a plumber.

Except that he's canonically not a plumber anymore. It never factored into his games aside from using pipes to warp and a single mini-game from Superstar Saga.

Ironically, the American adaptations incorporated it into his character as a central attribute with both the movie and the cartoon series having the brothers use their plumbing skills to construct or deconstruct the means to defeat their adversaries.

I don't want Shrek with less pop culture references. That's boring and we've seen it a million times now. I want a movie that embraces the history of the character that's filled with fan service and charm. Sorta similar to what Mario Odyssey does.

Of course I'd have fan service, but fan service alone isn't telling a story. In the first Iron Man movie, when he makes his escape in a suit nearly identical to that of the original Iron Man design, that was a great moment. When the 1989 Batman stamped the likeness of the 1970s Joker on the side of the Joker's helicopter, that was pretty cool too.

I'd give cameos, but it wouldn't just be a movie about Mario passing by a food stand where Donkey Kong Jr. happens to be sitting at a table next to Wart.

Mario fixes pipes in Super Mario 3D World. He still knows how to be a plumber lol

Skye Reynolds posted...

Of course I'd have fan service, but fan service alone isn't telling a story. In the first Iron Man movie, when he makes his escape in a suit nearly identical to that of the original Iron Man design, that was a great moment. When the 1989 Batman stamped the likeness of the 1970s Joker on the side of the Joker's helicopter, that was pretty cool too.

And we've seen your story with fan service before. It's called Shrek.
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Darmik posted...

And we've seen your story with fan service before. It's called Shrek.

I said it wouldn't be that.

I prefer the story to the story-that-references-the-story. I've enjoyed a couple of "candy store" films which throw out genre-references like bits of candy to a seasoned audience, but that's not what my aim would be.

Skye Reynolds posted...

Darmik posted...

And we've seen your story with fan service before. It's called Shrek.

I said it wouldn't be that.

I prefer the story to the story-that-references-the-story. I've enjoyed a couple of "candy store" films which throw out genre-references like bits of candy to a seasoned audience, but that's not what my aim would be.

You've mentioned some references to Disney movies and that's about it.

This is a series that has gone from jumping on blocks to go-karting around a castle, to flying in outer space and last we saw him he was assembling a jazz band in New Donk City for Pauline.

I'd rather we see something like Wreck-It Ralph, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, The Muppets or Space Jam than just another Disney movie with Mario characters crammed into stereotypical roles. The story just needs to be an excuse to have fun with these characters and see them on the big screen.
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Video Games are a completely different medium from movies, and certain story elements are only possible in gaming.

Three good examples are Detroit Become Human, Nier Automata and Metal Gear Solid 3

In Detroit Become Human, you have Marcus progress from having to hold another androids arm to convert them, to focus on them to convert them, to press a button to instantly convert, and then automatic conversion via proximity. This cant be replicated in a movie due to it not being interactive, yet still adds to the atmosphere/story.

In Nier Automata, you have the final boss, where you pick a character and fight the other one. This is an amazing scene due to the bond the player has formed with the characters, and then having to actively fight themselves as opposed to watching two characters fight in a cutscene.

In metal gear solid 3, you have snake killing the boss. This is powerful due to the scene not progressing until the player presses the button themselves, so its as if the player made the decision themselves.

These types of things are only possible in a video game, and help contribute to why these stories are greatexcept detroit lol but cant be replicated in a movie and why movie adaptions of video games will always seem bad, even if the games story is considered great.

It would be far more difficult to make a good movie adaption of a game than a good movie adaption of a book.
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Space Jam Mario would be cool. I think a silly fun kids movie like that would capture the essence of what Mario is. Maybe the worlds get intertwined and Mario has to enlist the help of some lonely gaming nerd to help him go after Bowser and get his Peach back. Gets friends and powers along the way, blah blah. Something simple.
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Darmik posted...

I'd rather we see something like Wreck-It Ralph, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, The Muppets or Space Jam than just another Disney movie with Mario characters crammed into stereotypical roles. The story just needs to be an excuse to have fun with these characters and see them on the big screen.

Maybe it's because Bob Hoskins was in both films, but I've always retroactively viewed Who Framed Roger Rabbit as something akin to what Mario should've been. By the way, underneath all of the cameos and the live action / animation shtick, there's actually a pretty decent film noir going on.

Mario may have gone golfing and go-karting, he may have been a boxing referee and an active participant in fighting games, but he's primarily still an adventurer. When someone mentions Mario, people are more likely to think of Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Galaxy than they are Mario Kart or Mario Party.

I think the movie should be an adventure at heart. The trick is in striking the right balance between what's serious, what's light-hearted, what's a reference to Mario, and what's an adaptation of Mario. He's not just a mascot. He's not the Pillsbury Doughboy. He's a hero with a series of adventures behind him. I'd rather put him on a quest to defeat Bowser (or reluctantly team up with Bowser against a greater foe) than to stick him in a go-kart or have everything in his film be self-referential.

Skye Reynolds posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

If you think the reason Hollywood hates the gaming industry is because many devs try to make interactive movies, you're pretty delusional

I never said that. My thought process was that they can't be arsed to deal with them because it's not something that means something to them. If you gave me an opportunity to adapt a cartoon that I watched as a child, I'd jump at the opportunity. If you gave me something I never saw or cared about, I'd be lost on how to get something good out of it.

This logic falls flat when the guy who made the first Silent Hill movie was a fan of the games but it still ended up being shit or even when Ubisoft were directly involved with Assassins Creed it still turned out shit. Videogames have an uphill battle in Hollywood and will never have groundbreaking success as movies and videogames are polar opposites for the experiences they try to deliver and mixing them is just never going to end up any better than mediocre
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Hitman was pretty close to being a decent movie. I remember several people in that movie had played the games. But they had to re-use footage from Dark Angel because I guess the budget was that shit. They also had to add a cheesy sword fight scene to make the movie more like an actiony. Oh well.

I don't even know what Prince of Persia did wrong. It overall seemed accurate enough. But it was boring. Nobody even remembers it. It's just generic as a movie.

There are some movies that don't really do much wrong as an adaptation. But they're just boring. It's like something is missing. I don't know how that could ever truly be solved.

It's gonna be frustrating if Netflix Witcher is good and people try to use that as an example.
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Video games are what comics used to be. I particularly like this advertisement for the Batman film serial, "A Hundred Times More Thrilling On The Screen!"



You take one look at that and you just know you'd rather be reading a Batman comic from that era than watching that hokey (and shockingly racist) film serial. For decades, Batman '66 and the film serials that show parodied were what film and television thought of superheroes.

Today, they're big business. And a lot of them are respected at face value as dramas. Personally, even with Christopher Nolan and Mario Puzo's involvement, I'll never see anything with a mask or laser beams as drama. But, hey, my snobbishness won't change how people react to these characters.

And in years from now, there will be good movies based off of video games and people snobbishly undercutting them because they know they're based off of some silly video game and not a respectable medium.

Skye Reynolds posted...

But, hey, my snobbishness won't change how people react to these characters.

Your taste isn't good enough to qualify for snobbishness.
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The point I was making is that I look at comics as light fun. They're action heroes and spandex and nothing will ever change that for me. But, objectively speaking, they're big business and a lot of people, including respected critics, will accept them as dramatic figures.

People can say that video games don't have enough plot or character development or complain that you lose the interactive quality when you go from a participant to a viewer, that that doesn't take away their potential for growth. All it takes is one movie to get it right and others will follow.