Current Events > Why did the Star Wars sequel trilogy turn out the way it did?

(+) Yeah! (+)

No originality, tossing aside beloved characters, poor storylines, unlikable new leads etc.
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Well when a director and a producer love each other very much, they call the stork to bring them a basket with a film reel in it...
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Kathleen Kennedy was hired just cause she is friends with Lucas. And she took a dump all over the franchise

Because people get hired for important positions when they have no passion for the project

But it subverted your expectations!

You didn't expect a pile of dog shit, but that's what you got! It's a very clever method of film making.
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forced diversity
SJW's and feminists
"them"
mary sues

did i miss anything
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disney knows they could literally film jj abrams shitting in a filipno rent boy's mouth, slap the star wars logo on it, and still make billions of dollars
why should they bother putting effort into it when their prerogative is making money and not a good movie

Feminism.
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LightningAce11 posted...

No originality

you can call TLJ a lot of things, but I don't think "unoriginal" is among them.

LightningAce11 posted...

tossing aside beloved characters

2 of the main three had a full arc in the new films. One of them died before the trilogy was completed. Dunno what you wanted or what Disney can do about that.

LightningAce11 posted...

unlikable new leads

what about the new leads is so unlikable
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I've never found a reason to root for or even care for what happens to Rey and Finn.

They're just there.
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She bypassed the compressor tho
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Delirious_Beard posted...

forced diversity
SJW's and feminists
"them"
mary sues

did i miss anything

None of these are the reason it sucked.
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They literally had no planning at all.

Seriously, each film script was written independently.
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Different people in charge of different ones so it isn't cohesive.

Also they were so focused on having a strong female lead that they forgot to give her a personality. I like the idea of having a strong female lead, I think it's awesome. I just wish they gave her a personality.
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3khc posted...

Delirious_Beard posted...

forced diversity
SJW's and feminists
"them"
mary sues

did i miss anything

None of these are the reason it sucked.

Mary Sue is a legitimate reason.

Rey isn't an interesting character at all.
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The_Ivory_Man posted...

3khc posted...

Delirious_Beard posted...

forced diversity
SJW's and feminists
"them"
mary sues

did i miss anything

None of these are the reason it sucked.

Mary Sue is a legitimate reason.

Rey isn't an interesting character at all.

I'll give you mary sue, but only after tlj
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I like it.

People put the OT on too high of a pedestal. It was just as guilty of Mary Sue protagonists and weak writing. The news ones are enjoyable just like the OT. The new trilogy is miles above the PT. There are some valid criticisms of the new series, but the majority of it boils down to people blinded by nostalgia whining because it didn't follow their fan theories.

No central vision. Maybe it will all make sense when 9 comes out, but the TFA sets up the mystery of Rey's origins and Snoke's identity, then TLJ just seemingly undermines both of those plots by saying Rey's the child of 2 random junk dealers and by killing Snoke off. Granted, I think making Rey another Skywalker or Kenobi would be dumb, and honestly, Snoke was just a shitty Palpatine retread anyway, but it cuts TFA off at the knees to just resolve 2/3 of this series' plots in the most deliberately anticlimactic way possible. If you compare it to how Marvel handles its movies, it's night and day.
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The_Ivory_Man posted...

They literally had no planning at all.

Seriously, each film script was written independently.

I love SW as much as the next guy, but this literally describes the PT

CW_McGraw posted...


I actually like what they did, because it sets up why Kylo is an actual threat and shows his complete descent into darkness. He actually perfectly mirrors Vader, and surpasses him as he wanted; he completes his ascendance as a Sith by killing his master like Palpatine had failed to tempt Vader to do.

Dash_Harber posted...

It was just as guilty of Mary Sue protagonists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiyrUDBiFas" data-time="
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You've seen episode 9 then?
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Disney
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refmon posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It was just as guilty of Mary Sue protagonists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiyrUDBiFas" data-time="

Oh look, a twenty minute video.

Anyway;
- Is capable of piloting spacecraft despite never leaving their home planet before.
- Uses the force without any serious training.
- Defeats a master Sith in the finale confrontation.
- Everyone loves them for no reason and instantly puts them into a position of power in their alliance.
- Just happens to be in the right place at the right time to get off their home planet.

So ... who am I describing?

TheDarkCircle posted...

The_Ivory_Man posted...

They literally had no planning at all.

Seriously, each film script was written independently.

I love SW as much as the next guy, but this literally describes the PT

Lucas still managed to get it cohesive more or less
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CW_McGraw posted...

but the TFA sets up the mystery of Rey's origins and Snoke's identity

How so? Just by presenting a character who wasn't around before?
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Lucas was obsessed with Joseph Campbell's work on mythology and incorporated it into the OT and PT. The PT had its flaws but still put the myths and archetypes ahead of anything else, which made it at least deep on that level.

The ST was put together by corporate executives looking to make their 4-billion dollars back.
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Anteaterking posted...

CW_McGraw posted...

but the TFA sets up the mystery of Rey's origins and Snoke's identity

How so? Just by presenting a character who wasn't around before?

Rian Johnson wouldn't defend TLJ by claiming he was intentionally subverting audience expectations if there wasn't some expectation that Snoke would be expounded upon. He only showed up in TFA as a 50 foot shadowy hologram. People watched that movie and expected Snoke to be some big shot in the next two.
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Why won't the Snoke toys sell??
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The longtime fans (white males) who made the franchise successful to begin with were thrown under the bus with Kathleen Kennedys forced diversity and feminazi propaganda. This **** then gave this beloved franchise to a hack director who ruined beloved characters & killed the magic of Star Wars forever.
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I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with forced diversity, since one generally has to force change before it can become natural.

The problem is only when not enough effort is put into the characters past that.
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iPhone_7 posted...

The longtime fans (white males) who made the franchise successful to begin with were thrown under the bus with Kathleen Kennedys forced diversity and feminazi propaganda. This **** then gave this beloved franchise to a hack director who ruined beloved characters & killed the magic of Star Wars forever.

This gimmick got old the first 50 times you did it.
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Dash_Harber posted...

Anyway;
- Is capable of piloting spacecraft despite never leaving their home planet before.
- Uses the force without any serious training.
- Defeats a master Sith in the finale confrontation.
- Everyone loves them for no reason and instantly puts them into a position of power in their alliance.
- Just happens to be in the right place at the right time to get off their home planet.

So ... who am I describing?

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/reaching
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Delirious_Beard posted...

forced diversity
SJW's and feminists
"them"
mary sues

did i miss anything

Didnt she straight up say that she didnt care about old fans and was targeting a new audience?
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Freddie_Mercury posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Anyway;
- Is capable of piloting spacecraft despite never leaving their home planet before.
- Uses the force without any serious training.
- Defeats a master Sith in the finale confrontation.
- Everyone loves them for no reason and instantly puts them into a position of power in their alliance.
- Just happens to be in the right place at the right time to get off their home planet.

So ... who am I describing?

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/reaching

Those are a big reach

Luke didnt defeat Vader(han swooped in and knocked him out) until return of the Jedi
Luke got training from Ben and yoda( rey used the Jedi mind trick without ever hearing of it)

Luke got a position after destroying the death star, they let him pilot because they were desperate for pilots and had no time and his friend vouched for his piloting skills.
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I mean, you can explain away anything if you try hard enough. :)
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TheDarkCircle posted...

The_Ivory_Man posted...

They literally had no planning at all.

Seriously, each film script was written independently.

I love SW as much as the next guy, but this literally describes the PT

You couldn't be more wrong. Plans changed, but the outline was there and strictly followed. This Disney bullshit didn't even have an outline.
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Goats posted...

They put people who hate the existing fandom in charge

oh my good god come on
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you can hate the movies without being hyperbolic and dumb about it now, stop it.
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Goats posted...

There are aliens, sure, but they are background props

Star Wars films have always had a problem making nonhumans out to be actual characters. Even since the original trilogy. Ask who the most well-developed nonhuman is in Star Wars films and the answer is Jar Jar Binks. From nobody to solider to representative to harbinger of the fall of the Republic.
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HitTheGroundWal posted...

Different people in charge of different ones so it isn't cohesive.

Also they were so focused on having a strong female lead that they forgot to give her a personality. I like the idea of having a strong female lead, I think it's awesome. I just wish they gave her a personality.

Agreed. As a female and a minority, I feel like Disney's implementation of diversity was just bad.

Rey = Boring Mary Sue
Fin = Bumbling buffoon
Rose = Useless and annoying character
Phasma = Amazing potential but totally underused

Dash_Harber posted...

refmon posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

It was just as guilty of Mary Sue protagonists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiyrUDBiFas" data-time="

Oh look, a twenty minute video.

Anyway;
- Is capable of piloting spacecraft despite never leaving their home planet before.
- Uses the force without any serious training.
- Defeats a master Sith in the finale confrontation.
- Everyone loves them for no reason and instantly puts them into a position of power in their alliance.
- Just happens to be in the right place at the right time to get off their home planet.

So ... who am I describing?

Clearly not Luke.

He trained for three years reading Obi-Wan's journals, trained for months on Dagobah which had connections to the force allowing faster skips, and trained for another year before Return of the Jedi.

Luke is not loved for no reason.
He's belittled by Han, Owen, Liea, R2, and even Chewbacca laughs at him.
Random people also treat him like trash too.

He never left his home planet but he had flown aircraft and his dream was to join the Imperial Academy and go flying spacecraft as all of his friends had done, there's an explanation for his talent. Luke is not instantly put into a position of power, he's one of the few survivors of the Death Star battle after the desperately scrambled everyone who could fly, obviously he'd be given something after that.

Luke isn't just in the right place at the right time, even if he hadn't been the one to get C-3PO and R2D2 he would have gone away since Obi-Wan would have grabbed him regardless.

The master sith he beat was holding back, wanting Luke to join him.

Luke also is wrong a decent amount and gets the shit kicked out of him as well.

He isn't a Mary Sue in any fashion.
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Cleo_II posted...

HitTheGroundWal posted...

Different people in charge of different ones so it isn't cohesive.

Also they were so focused on having a strong female lead that they forgot to give her a personality. I like the idea of having a strong female lead, I think it's awesome. I just wish they gave her a personality.

Agreed. As a female and a minority, I feel like Disney's implementation of diversity was just bad.

Rey = Boring Mary Sue
Fin = Bumbling buffoon
Rose = Useless and annoying character
Phasma = Amazing potential but totally underused

But my mind is baffled at this point. None of these characters' race or gendered mattered to their character storyline. So why does it matter if they're women or black?

What's the solution to make them not "forced diversity"? Make them white or a man.

People whine when you make this stuff central to the character, saying you're shoving it in their face. Yet when you make it not even matter, people still complain.

Like I agree with your points about how the characters suck, but why can't we just leave it at that? Like yes, I see Fin is a bumbling buffoon, but not as a "black bumbling buffoon," his race hasnt been brought up in the story.

CW_McGraw posted...

Rian Johnson wouldn't defend TLJ by claiming he was intentionally subverting audience expectations if there wasn't some expectation that Snoke would be expounded upon. He only showed up in TFA as a 50 foot shadowy hologram. People watched that movie and expected Snoke to be some big shot in the next two.

I don't think most people thought Snoke would die in the manner that he did, but that's different than the first movie hinting that we'd learn his backstory or something dumb like that. The OT didn't go into "who" Palpatine was or anything like that.
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I really liked Force Awakens. I think TLJ is over-hated, still entertaining but it was obviously pretty flawed narratively.

Its 100% because Rian Johnson was given free reign to do whatever he wanted. Its not because he specifically is bad, its because this is a fucking TRILOGY and when you throw the entire first movie in the trash, your characters become arc-less.
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Luke 'trained for months' on Dagobah? Exactly how long do people think Han and co. spent fleeing the Empire and traveling to Bespin? Writing this amount of time off as even longer than a week is some serious reaching. The only possible wiggle-room in which to justify this is when Han says Bespin's 'pretty far,' but does anyone seriously think that trip through spaces took remotely that long?
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Its 100% because Rian Johnson was given free reign to do whatever he wanted. Its not because he specifically is bad, its because this is a f***ing TRILOGY and when you throw the entire first movie in the trash, your characters become arc-less.

^^
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The_Ivory_Man posted...

He trained for three years reading Obi-Wan's journals, trained for months on Dagobah which had connections to the force allowing faster skips, and trained for another year before Return of the Jedi.

Okay, let's be real here. All of this is only ever explained in EU material, which the vast majority of Star Wars fans have never read.

There's plenty of EU material to explain the shit people complain about in the ST, but that just gets tossed aside because it wasn't explained in the movie.
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The_Ivory_Man posted...

He trained for three years reading Obi-Wan's journals, trained for months on Dagobah which had connections to the force allowing faster skips, and trained for another year before Return of the Jedi.

I was just describing A New Hope.

The_Ivory_Man posted...

Luke is not loved for no reason.
He's belittled by Han, Owen, Liea, R2, and even Chewbacca laughs at him.
Random people also treat him like trash too.

Oh, Leia who kisses him immediately after meeting him, Han and Chewie who risk their lives and anonymity by throwing in with the rebels after one job, or R2, who teases him but chooses to fly a suicide mission with him after knowing him for the grand total of a few days?

The_Ivory_Man posted...

He never left his home planet but he had flown aircraft and his dream was to join the Imperial Academy and go flying spacecraft as all of his friends had done, there's an explanation for his talent. Luke is not instantly put into a position of power, he's one of the few survivors of the Death Star battle after the desperately scrambled everyone who could fly, obviously he'd be given something after that.

Yeah, he's driven hover cars. That's like saying "I'm really good at driving my car, so I can pilot a fighter jet". Also, people don't go to a flying academy because they already know how to fly (also, was it the Imperial Academy he wanted to go to? Weren't his friends with the rebels in the final battle with him?). He's also put into Red Squadron, despite the fact that, again, this is literally his first week in space.

The_Ivory_Man posted...

uke isn't just in the right place at the right time, even if he hadn't been the one to get C-3PO and R2D2 he would have gone away since Obi-Wan would have grabbed him regardless.

What makes you think that? There is no indication that Obi-Wan meant to run into him or that he even knew for sure who he was initially, at least outside of the EU.

The_Ivory_Man posted...

The master sith he beat was holding back, wanting Luke to join him.

He was holding back in the trench run? Didn't seem like it. Let's not forget that Anakin was literally the veteran of a space war, who had successfully destroyed a blockade ship single-handedly when he was 11, and yet he gets outfoxed by a farm boy his first time in an X-Wing.