Current Events > In a very real sense, Eminem was born more privileged than the Affluenza kid

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hear me out. I understand it sounds ridiculous but I truly believe this and I'll tell you why. Obviously someone like Eminem was born into terrible circumstances - absentee father, psycho mom, extreme poverty, etc, whereas affluenza kid was born into great wealth and had a much easier childhood and never had to struggle for anything in life.

However.

There are two things that define who we are and decide what we do. One is nature/genetics - nobody would argue we don't control that. The other is nurture, the environment and circumstances we are born into. What most people don't seem to understand is that we have no real control over our nurture or circumstances either - because obviously we don't control the circumstances we're born into in our first moment in this world... and if we can't control our nature, and we can't control our environment at the very beginning, AND who we are and what we "choose" to do is entirely defined by our nature and nurture... then we have no real control over who we are and what we do. At best, we have an illusion of control.

So here's the question - if Eminem grew up to be a cultural icon with enormous wealth and status, and affluenza kid grew up to be a fucking murdering loser despite all his "advantages"... and the entire trajectory of our lives is defined by our genetics and the circumstances we are born into... doesn't the fact that Eminem's genetics and circumstances led him to a better place than affluenza kid mean that he was privileged with better genetics and circumstances?

im just saying man just because someone is born into great wealth does not equal a great life. if you had to choose between living Eminem's life and living affluenza kids life, who you gonna choose? oh, Eminem's? you're goddamn right

the_freak posted...

im just saying man just because someone is born into great wealth does not equal a great life. if you had to choose between living Eminem's life and living affluenza kids life, who you gonna choose? oh, Eminem's? you're goddamn right

I choose Affluenza kid from 1 to 17 and Eminem's after.
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When your bait doesn't get any bites so you have to double down

Reis posted...

When your bait doesn't get any bites so you have to double down

"uhhh uhhhh complex thoughts make my brain hurt i better just say TROLL and call it a day"

Tyranthraxus posted...

the_freak posted...

im just saying man just because someone is born into great wealth does not equal a great life. if you had to choose between living Eminem's life and living affluenza kids life, who you gonna choose? oh, Eminem's? you're goddamn right

I choose Affluenza kid from 1 to 17 and Eminem's after.

yeah but that's not an option, you couldnt have eminem from 17-now if you didnt go through all that shit

Interesting question. I suppose we all must ponder the validity of the statement proposed.
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the_freak posted...

Reis posted...

When your bait doesn't get any bites so you have to double down

"uhhh uhhhh complex thoughts make my brain hurt i better just say TROLL and call it a day"

Naw. You used 2 specific cases and treated them like they were the rule instead of exception. That's not complex. That's a universal tool to get bigger dummies to believe your dumb shit
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the_freak posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

the_freak posted...

im just saying man just because someone is born into great wealth does not equal a great life. if you had to choose between living Eminem's life and living affluenza kids life, who you gonna choose? oh, Eminem's? you're goddamn right

I choose Affluenza kid from 1 to 17 and Eminem's after.

yeah but that's not an option, you couldnt have eminem from 17-now if you didnt go through all that shit

Eminem got a lucky break when Dr. Dre was in one of concerts. Lots of people go through what Eminem did. Most of them do not become millionaire artists.
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eminem was privileged because he is white. that is why he accomplished what he did. it was white privilege.
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Russman posted...

Interesting question. I suppose we all must ponder the validity of the statement proposed.

that's what I'm saying

Lost_All_Senses posted...

the_freak posted...

Reis posted...

When your bait doesn't get any bites so you have to double down

"uhhh uhhhh complex thoughts make my brain hurt i better just say TROLL and call it a day"

Naw. You used 2 specific cases and treated them like they were the rule instead of exception. That's not complex. That's a universal tool to get bigger dummies to believe your dumb shit

do you ever read things over before you post them just to make sure you didn't say something that makes no sense at all? I'm very, very, very, very obviously (and I mean VERY obviously) not saying that someone who's born poor and lives a terrible life till they die is more privileged than someone who's born into material privilege and lives a good life. I am saying that if you go through hardships like poverty and you triumph over them and do something great with your life like Eminem did, the genetics and circumstances you were born with lead to a better life than what the material privilege of a rich fuckup like affluenza boy lead his life to become. I think it bears repeating how obvious this was.

This is a stupid topic, I can't even figure out the point you're trying to make.
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the_freak posted...

Russman posted...

Interesting question. I suppose we all must ponder the validity of the statement proposed.

that's what I'm saying

Lost_All_Senses posted...

the_freak posted...

Reis posted...

When your bait doesn't get any bites so you have to double down

"uhhh uhhhh complex thoughts make my brain hurt i better just say TROLL and call it a day"

Naw. You used 2 specific cases and treated them like they were the rule instead of exception. That's not complex. That's a universal tool to get bigger dummies to believe your dumb shit

do you ever read things over before you post them just to make sure you didn't say something that makes no sense at all? I'm very, very, very, very obviously (and I mean VERY obviously) not saying that someone who's born poor and lives a terrible life till they die is more privileged than someone who's born into material privilege and lives a good life. I am saying that if you go through hardships like poverty and you triumph over them and do something great with your life like Eminem did, the genetics and circumstances you were born with lead to a better life than what the material privilege of a rich fuckup like affluenza boy lead his life to become. I think it bears repeating how obvious this was.

You're still using one case. You realize half of the celebrities now are just relatives of other celebraties right? If all you're saying is poir people can become successful and people born into a successful family can be fuck ups then you're just stating the obvious that everyone has known since before ypu were born
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Tyranthraxus posted...

the_freak posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

the_freak posted...

im just saying man just because someone is born into great wealth does not equal a great life. if you had to choose between living Eminem's life and living affluenza kids life, who you gonna choose? oh, Eminem's? you're goddamn right

I choose Affluenza kid from 1 to 17 and Eminem's after.

yeah but that's not an option, you couldnt have eminem from 17-now if you didnt go through all that shit

Eminem got a lucky break when Dr. Dre was in one of concerts. Lots of people go through what Eminem did. Most of them do not become millionaire artists.

so, what, did you just hear that dre's support put eminem into the mainstream and conclude that's the story? if you're interested, i saw a documentary about dre and jimmy iovine that explained what actually happened. eminem was already a local legend in detroit in the battle scene and he had just dropped a tape called the slim shady ep. after one of his battles one of dre's scouts got a tape and showed dre and the rest is history.

SageHarpuia posted...

This is a stupid topic, I can't even figure out the point you're trying to make.

You heard it here first, folks. Anything SafeHarpuia can't understand is stupid.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

the_freak posted...

Russman posted...

Interesting question. I suppose we all must ponder the validity of the statement proposed.

that's what I'm saying

Lost_All_Senses posted...

the_freak posted...

Reis posted...

When your bait doesn't get any bites so you have to double down

"uhhh uhhhh complex thoughts make my brain hurt i better just say TROLL and call it a day"

Naw. You used 2 specific cases and treated them like they were the rule instead of exception. That's not complex. That's a universal tool to get bigger dummies to believe your dumb shit

do you ever read things over before you post them just to make sure you didn't say something that makes no sense at all? I'm very, very, very, very obviously (and I mean VERY obviously) not saying that someone who's born poor and lives a terrible life till they die is more privileged than someone who's born into material privilege and lives a good life. I am saying that if you go through hardships like poverty and you triumph over them and do something great with your life like Eminem did, the genetics and circumstances you were born with lead to a better life than what the material privilege of a rich fuckup like affluenza boy lead his life to become. I think it bears repeating how obvious this was.

You're still using one case. You realize half of the celebrities now are just relatives of other celebraties right? If all you're saying is poir people can become successful and people born into a successful family can be fuck ups then you're just stating the obvious that everyone has known since before ypu were born

why would i make a topic just to say that? you're right, everyone already knows that. people tend to think of the issue of privilege as black and white - to think that if you are born into great wealth and status you are privileged and if you are born into poverty you arent - and my point is that that is a very narrow definition of privilege. i think you can only really tell who has real privilege when you look at their whole life, you know, where it began, where it ended, and what it was like in between. i think people who have real privilege are those who can look back on their lives and smile and think about all the good things they did and all the hearts they touched and look back on the bad times and be thankful for those, too, because they offered opportunities to grow. and i dont think material privilege has anywhere near as much to do with the real privilege i just described as most people think. thats my point.

CE's responses to this topic were kind of vitriolic and abrasive, and I responded in kind, but I honestly like just wanted to throw ideas back and forth because ive been thinking about this shit for a long time. thanks for responding man

the_freak posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

the_freak posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

the_freak posted...

im just saying man just because someone is born into great wealth does not equal a great life. if you had to choose between living Eminem's life and living affluenza kids life, who you gonna choose? oh, Eminem's? you're goddamn right

I choose Affluenza kid from 1 to 17 and Eminem's after.

yeah but that's not an option, you couldnt have eminem from 17-now if you didnt go through all that shit

Eminem got a lucky break when Dr. Dre was in one of concerts. Lots of people go through what Eminem did. Most of them do not become millionaire artists.

so, what, did you just hear that dre's support put eminem into the mainstream and conclude that's the story? if you're interested, i saw a documentary about dre and jimmy iovine that explained what actually happened. eminem was already a local legend in detroit in the battle scene and he had just dropped a tape called the slim shady ep. after one of his battles one of dre's scouts got a tape and showed dre and the rest is history.

Oh and also, you are proving my point. Eminem's nature and nurture led him to be in the right place at the right time to get supported by Dre, and he was very lucky that happened, and thats part of his privilege

There's no privilege that Eminem had growing up thats better than an affluenza kid.
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User Name the_freak
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This is just a wishy-washy way of expressing determinism in light of obvious hindsight bias.

If you just look at outcome to retrospectively apply one's level of privilege, you aren't saying anything meaningful.

Your logic is kind of circular here.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

This is just a wishy-washy way of expressing determinism in light of obvious hindsight bias.

If you just look at outcome to retrospectively apply one's level of privilege, you aren't saying anything meaningful.

Your logic is kind of circular here.

Oh cool, an actual response. I'm interested in what you have to say and am open to changing my view. I'm wondering how is it circular though? I think it's a pretty straightforward line of reasoning that defends my point that people tend to way overvalue material privilege when what really matters is whether you end up having a good life. Like, Trump was born into way more material privilege than you or I, but would you even consider swapping places with him for a second? I wouldn't, he's a miserable person with a hole where his heart should be.

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

There's no privilege that Eminem had growing up thats better than an affluenza kid.

I agree completely if we're talking about the narrow material definition of privilege most people use

Everyone who is dead now is less privileged than everyone who is alive now because they're dead and we're alive and being alive is a better circumstance than being dead \_()_/

(unless you disagree with that, in which case, the opposite is true)
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the_freak posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

There's no privilege that Eminem had growing up thats better than an affluenza kid.

I agree completely if we're talking about the narrow material definition of privilege most people use

Bad parents sure are material.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Everyone who is dead now is less privileged than everyone who is alive now because they're dead and we're alive and being alive is a better circumstance than being dead \_()_/

(unless you disagree with that, in which case, the opposite is true)

the man, he is made of straw

Lost_All_Senses posted...

the_freak posted...

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

There's no privilege that Eminem had growing up thats better than an affluenza kid.

I agree completely if we're talking about the narrow material definition of privilege most people use

Bad parents sure are material.

i just feel like you fundamentally dont understand what we're talking about here

the_freak posted...

Oh cool, an actual response. I'm interested in what you have to say and am open to changing my view. I'm wondering how is it circular though? I think it's a pretty straightforward line of reasoning that defends my point that people tend to way overvalue material privilege when what really matters is whether you end up having a good life. Like, Trump was born into way more material privilege than you or I, but would you even consider swapping places with him for a second? I wouldn't, he's a miserable person with a hole where his heart should be.

Because it's not a categorical distinction of "good life" vs "not good life" or "success" vs "not success". It's continuous in the sense that privilege has always been a probability. No one who's opinion is worth something implies more than it being simply a greater chance at those things.

Someone with "privilege" isn't guaranteed success or a good life, but that word does denote something specific that then loses its meaning when you interject it with subjective values and applied in hindsight to someone's life.

Eminem is the antithesis of privilege. That doesn't mean he isn't successful or doesn't have a good life. In fact, it makes no such attribution.

By saying because Eminem had some undetermined "quality" yet undefined that you attribute to his success or ability at "living a good life" and that makes him privileged is you just confusing the word with success and/or happiness.

If you're just trying to make the point that people who don't grow up in privilege can still obtain success and/or happiness and that being born into relative wealth doesn't guarantee it...well that's a big fucking duh that no one is arguing against.

I'm really failing to see the point other than stating what's incredibly obvious.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

the_freak posted...

Oh cool, an actual response. I'm interested in what you have to say and am open to changing my view. I'm wondering how is it circular though? I think it's a pretty straightforward line of reasoning that defends my point that people tend to way overvalue material privilege when what really matters is whether you end up having a good life. Like, Trump was born into way more material privilege than you or I, but would you even consider swapping places with him for a second? I wouldn't, he's a miserable person with a hole where his heart should be.

Because it's not a categorical distinction of "good life" vs "not good life" or "success" vs "not success". It's continuous in the sense that privilege has always been a probability. No one who's opinion is worth something implies more than it being simply a greater chance at those things.

Someone with "privilege" isn't guaranteed success or a good life, but that word does denote something specific that then loses its meaning when you interject it with subjective values and applied in hindsight to someone's life.

Eminem is the antithesis of privilege. That doesn't mean he isn't successful or doesn't have a good life. In fact, it makes no such attribution.

By saying because Eminem had some undetermined "quality" yet undefined that you attribute to his success or ability at "living a good life" and that makes him privileged is you just confusing the word with success and/or happiness.

If you're just trying to make the point that people who don't grow up in privilege can still obtain success and/or happiness and that being born into relative wealth doesn't guarantee it...well that's a big fucking duh that no one is arguing against.

I'm really failing to see the point other than stating what's incredibly obvious.

this is the point: People concieve of privilege as an economic or social advantage, such as being rich or being white, that you are born with. I am arguing that if we're going to talk about the circumstances you're born into as privilege, we should recognize that life is basically on rails and that no matter how much wealth someone is born with, if they go on to live a shitty life and be bad unhappy people, because despite their material privilege they were doomed to be bad unhappy people, then what the hell kind of privilege is that?

I understand how people concieve of privilege. It's not that I don't understand. It's that I disagree with that conception. If we're talking about circumstances people are born into, I think people whose circumstances lead to good happy lives are lucky and truly privileged. I think this definition is more in the line with the reality that our lives are predetermined and I think that if people concieved of privilege this way it would bring people together and take some of the bitterness out of our divisions. It would be like Cherry Valance and Ponyboy connecting over how the sunrise looks the same from the rich and poor sides of town, on a societal level.

is there anything factual in anything you say

or is it entirely opinion
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Guerrilla Soldier posted...

is there anything factual in anything you say

or is it entirely opinion

i would say it's opinion derived from empirically demonstrable fact. If someone would rather stick to the narrow and misleading and commonly accepted conception of privilege that's a difference of opinion

I think it's best for now to assume that being poor is bad. Eminem might have terrible genetics too for all we know. It's possible that both his genetics, and nurture, alone, are terrible, but when combined together are very advantageous.

8-bit_Biceps posted...

I think it's best for now to assume that being poor is bad. Eminem might have terrible genetics too for all we know. It's possible that both his genetics, and nurture, alone, are terrible, but when combined together are very advantageous.

I completely agree.

the_freak posted...

and the entire trajectory of our lives is defined by our genetics and the circumstances we are born into

wrong, stop making excuses and make something of yourself
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Sativa_Rose posted...

the_freak posted...

and the entire trajectory of our lives is defined by our genetics and the circumstances we are born into

wrong, stop making excuses and make something of yourself

despite severe depression a history of suicide attempts and borderline personality disorder I'm fighting my way through, graduating college soon, and plan to dedicate the rest of my life to making the world a better place. how about you stop making erroneous assumptions about people you don't know just because they say objectively true things that upset you. it's possible to recognize that free will is an illusion at the same time you recognize that you have to play your ego's game to get anywhere in life

@Sativa_Rose what do you think about that you false accusation makin ass

now that I think of it I'll take this one step further and say I feel like a middle class kid probably has a better chance of having a good life than a child of the economic elite. anyone who has that much advantage almost invariably turns into a fuckboy

the_freak posted...

i would say it's opinion derived from empirically demonstrable fact.

Welcome to post-truth era, ladies and gentleman.

the_freak posted...

I understand how people concieve of privilege. It's not that I don't understand. It's that I disagree with that conception.

Except privilege speaks nothing to one's happiness. There's no need to re-conceptualize it. And if we go by your meaning, it loses all function. It's essentially using the word privilege to equate to happiness.

"Fuck how people use a certain word. I want them to use it MY WAY."

Again, it's not like people contend on the fact that privilege doesn't guarantee happiness so your point is literally nothing more than semantics of a word rather than some concept. You're not the first person to recognize some wealthy people are unhappy.
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the_freak posted...

now that I think of it I'll take this one step further and say I feel like a middle class kid probably has a better chance of having a good life than a child of the economic elite. anyone who has that much advantage almost invariably turns into a fuckboy

By your own values.

You're making some really tangential associations here.
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the_freak posted...

@Sativa_Rose what do you think about that you false accusation makin ass

I disagree with your analysis of reality. I am sorry for your own personal hardships, but my point was directed more towards your claims about reality than your personal circumstances.
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if you just wanna keep saying the same thing over and over again be my guest but I'm going to need an actual argument to continue our discussion

This is a stupid topic. The premise is faulty in regards to being born into something. Eminem was not born into a better situation than the affluenza kid and frankly, this is a stupid subject to put energy into so whatever.
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Last post was to BA. @Sativa_Rose oh its all good man. If you're interested in this you should try reading Sam Harris's book on free will, it makes a pretty airtight case for determinism

the_freak posted...

if you just wanna keep saying the same thing over and over again be my guest but I'm going to need an actual argument to continue our discussion

Ok so - define "better life" and then show the proof that the average middle class baby is more likely to achieve that than the average upper class baby. THAT is the evidence/empirical method people are asking you to provide if you want to make a generalized statement about society.

Kineth posted...

This is a stupid topic. The premise is faulty in regards to being born into something. Eminem was not born into a better situation than the affluenza kid and frankly, this is a stupid subject to put energy into so whatever.

Yes, he was. That's the whole point. Everything we do and everything that ever happens to us was decided as long ago as this universe came into being. Just because Eminem's situation got better than affluenza kid's later on in life doesn't mean he wasn't born into it.

> 5 karma
> 145 active posts
> stupid topic

Why are people nibbling on this bait?
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TheBiggerWiggle posted...

> 5 karma
> 145 active posts
> stupid topic

Why are people nibbling on this bait?

Fair point.
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the_freak posted...

Last post was to BA. @Sativa_Rose oh its all good man. If you're interested in this you should try reading Sam Harris's book on free will, it makes a pretty airtight case for determinism

Shrug, I've heard him speak on the topic before and he made some good points, but I think we all still have an element of free will at the end of the day. A universe without any notion of free will would be a pretty pointless one.
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Ruvan22 posted...

the_freak posted...

if you just wanna keep saying the same thing over and over again be my guest but I'm going to need an actual argument to continue our discussion

Ok so - define "better life" and then show the proof that the average middle class baby is more likely to achieve that than the average upper class baby. THAT is the evidence/empirical method people are asking you to provide if you want to make a generalized statement about society.

But that's another strawman. There's no way I could empirically prove that and I didn't say I could. The empirical part is determinism

Kineth posted...

TheBiggerWiggle posted...

> 5 karma
> 145 active posts
> stupid topic

Why are people nibbling on this bait?

Fair point.

listen, the first time either of you clowns makes a fair point in this topic, then you can talk

the_freak posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Everyone who is dead now is less privileged than everyone who is alive now because they're dead and we're alive and being alive is a better circumstance than being dead

(unless you disagree with that, in which case, the opposite is true)

the man, he is made of straw

Tell me more, tell me more, did... fuck... I don't remember that line. It was annoying, no offence.

So correct me, freak
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