Current Events > TBH we should automate as soon as possible, tax the machines and give UBI

(+) Yeah! (+)

Universal Basic Income

that's the best thing for the people of the US, workers and business owners. Start with the minimum wage jobs and other jobs that will be automated soon (driving, etc.) and move up as far as the automation will go. Even if the robots make the same profit as people, it's easier to deal with machines than people.

When automation/UBI becomes a serious issue, many people will want to avoid it for various reasons and the result will be terrible for everyone.
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bump
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Uh, so low skilled people get to live for free but since my job can't be automated I'm expected to work to pay for it all?

How about no.
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r4X0r posted...

Uh, so low skilled people get to live for free but since my job can't be automated I'm expected to work to pay for it all?

How about no.

You could just quit your job.
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r4X0r posted...

Uh, so low skilled people get to live for free but since my job can't be automated I'm expected to work to pay for it all?

How about no.

If you don't want to work, you're free to stop doing so and barely scrape by on UBI. Make sure to find a suitable low-cost-of-living area and a room mate or two so that you can combine your UBI together to live out a no-frills life.

That or you can continue doing your work in addition to getting UBI and live like a king.
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1337toothbrush posted...

r4X0r posted...

Uh, so low skilled people get to live for free but since my job can't be automated I'm expected to work to pay for it all?

How about no.

If you don't want to work, you're free to stop doing so and barely scrape by on UBI. Make sure to find a suitable low-cost-of-living area and a room mate or two so that you can combine your UBI together to live out a no-frills life.

That or you can continue doing your work in addition to getting UBI and live like a king.

So if I'm getting UBI on top of my income and I'm "living like a king" which means my taxes haven't gone up... where's the money for the UBI coming from?
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Fuparulez posted...

1337toothbrush posted...

r4X0r posted...

Uh, so low skilled people get to live for free but since my job can't be automated I'm expected to work to pay for it all?

How about no.

If you don't want to work, you're free to stop doing so and barely scrape by on UBI. Make sure to find a suitable low-cost-of-living area and a room mate or two so that you can combine your UBI together to live out a no-frills life.

That or you can continue doing your work in addition to getting UBI and live like a king.

So if I'm getting UBI on top of my income and I'm "living like a king" which means my taxes haven't gone up... where's the money for the UBI coming from?

Depends on which margin you fall into. Taxes will go up, but it impacts you more if you're rich.
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You could take away all the rich people's income and it still wouldn't pay for a UBI that could sustain people.

The general gist of this that I'm getting is "wouldn't it be awesome if I didn't have to work and the government gave me other people's money for free."
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Marginal costs must approach 0 before we can fund universal income.
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Fuparulez posted...

You could take away all the rich people's income and it still wouldn't pay for a UBI that could sustain people.

The general gist of this that I'm getting is "wouldn't it be awesome if I didn't have to work and the government gave me other people's money for free."

TC was a Bernie Bro before he became a Trump apologist
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Fuparulez posted...

You could take away all the rich people's income and it still wouldn't pay for a UBI that could sustain people.

The general gist of this that I'm getting is "wouldn't it be awesome if I didn't have to work and the government gave me other people's money for free."

So you're saying full employment is impossible? How else do we get the money to pay people to work?
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Full employment, as in everyone who wants a job has one, is impossible because you're always going to have people between jobs, which is why "full employment" as an economics term is 3-4% unemployment. We get the money to pay people to work by the money they generate for the people they work for.

What does this have to do with the fact you'd have to generate wealth out of thin air to fund this UBI system as it's been presented here?
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Fuparulez posted...

Full employment, as in everyone who wants a job has one, is impossible because you're always going to have people between jobs, which is why "full employment" as an economics term is 3-4% unemployment. We get the money to pay people to work by the money they generate for the people they work for.

What does this have to do with the fact you'd have to generate wealth out of thin air to fund this UBI system as it's been presented here?

For one, it'd replace welfare, so that's already the bulk of the program funded. Second, you are overestimating the amount of wealth people generate when they sit at work and browse facebook.
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We should not give a ubi and instead let people riot and starve until the US is about 1% of the population it used ro be. Way better than letting someone lazy live off a tax dollar
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1337toothbrush posted...

Fuparulez posted...

Full employment, as in everyone who wants a job has one, is impossible because you're always going to have people between jobs, which is why "full employment" as an economics term is 3-4% unemployment. We get the money to pay people to work by the money they generate for the people they work for.

What does this have to do with the fact you'd have to generate wealth out of thin air to fund this UBI system as it's been presented here?

For one, it'd replace welfare, so that's already the bulk of the program funded. Second, you are overestimating the amount of wealth people generate when they sit at work and browse facebook.

We spend right around a trillion dollars per year on welfare and the 18+ population of America is about 250 million, which means if we cut every single penny of welfare spending we could provide a UBI to every adult in America of $333.33/month, which is about a quarter as much as a full time minimum wage job.

Somehow, all signs point to this being a dead end. The economy is doing great. Go get a job.
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Fuparulez posted...

1337toothbrush posted...

r4X0r posted...

Uh, so low skilled people get to live for free but since my job can't be automated I'm expected to work to pay for it all?

How about no.

If you don't want to work, you're free to stop doing so and barely scrape by on UBI. Make sure to find a suitable low-cost-of-living area and a room mate or two so that you can combine your UBI together to live out a no-frills life.

That or you can continue doing your work in addition to getting UBI and live like a king.

So if I'm getting UBI on top of my income and I'm "living like a king" which means my taxes haven't gone up... where's the money for the UBI coming from?

therein lies the real problem with UBI: I think it could do a lot of good if combined with existing social programs, public healthcare, etc., but politically, that's not the direction that it's coming from. it's not feasible, and its main proponents want to defund and privatize social services to fund it.
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Fuparulez posted...

1337toothbrush posted...

Fuparulez posted...

Full employment, as in everyone who wants a job has one, is impossible because you're always going to have people between jobs, which is why "full employment" as an economics term is 3-4% unemployment. We get the money to pay people to work by the money they generate for the people they work for.

What does this have to do with the fact you'd have to generate wealth out of thin air to fund this UBI system as it's been presented here?

For one, it'd replace welfare, so that's already the bulk of the program funded. Second, you are overestimating the amount of wealth people generate when they sit at work and browse facebook.

We spend right around a trillion dollars per year on welfare and the 18+ population of America is about 250 million, which means if we cut every single penny of welfare spending we could provide a UBI to every adult in America of $333.33/month, which is about a quarter as much as a full time minimum wage job.

Somehow, all signs point to this being a dead end. The economy is doing great. Go get a job.

I'd much rather we work towards reducing the number of work hours (like we did from 60 hours a week about a century ago), but even UBI is better than the stupid system we have, where workers get underpaid to work shitty jobs.
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I mean it doesn't have to start as something that would fully pay for everyone's living, I doubt that's possible yet.

But what will happen when it's 2050 and AI can do basically every job better than people, AND UBI hasn't been tried at all yet
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The people who STILL don't understand how universal basic income would work have got to be willfully ignorant. I mean for fuck's sake, it's 2018 and this has been a topic for a few years now.
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Fuparulez posted...

where's the money for the UBI coming from?

So you not know what automation is? Jobs that used to be minimum wage would be cheaper if automation is working as intended.

Hell even higher paid jobs can be automated. Don't think your job is safe.
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