Current Events > Benefits of being vegan?

(+) Yeah! (+)

pros:
better for your body
better for the environment
better for animals

cons:
meat taste good
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Tyranthraxus posted...

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Admittedly I haven't investigated this in-depth to know for certain, but I'd be curious to the widespread impact if everyone ate vegan, since there is limited landmass to grow enough food to meet caloric demands for 8 billion people versus a small subset of the first world. Would higher demand lead to agricultural practice that mirrors the meat industry in carbon pollution? I don't know.

If literally the whole planet went vegan tomorrow (it won't happen but bear with me) then our Carbon Dioxide problems disappear nearly instantly.

Food also becomes much cheaper as a whole since you no longer need to give tons of it to animals.

It would not stop CO2 problems... it would shift the CO2 production. Yes, animals would not have to eat, but we would have a LOT more grown to support the population. That would mean more land used, more farm equipment used, more transporting of said goods, etc.

You just do not get the calories from non-meat sources that you do from meat sources... which is why meat is often a 'superior' food.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/547226-which-gives-you-more-energy-meat-or-vegetables

Basically, more from meat than vegetables... so you would need to eat more vegetables to offset the meat.

For what its worth, my sister and her husband are vegans... they spend SO much more money on food than I do... I'd wager they spend 4 or 5 times what I do per month.
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ThyCorndog posted...

better for your body

In isolation, this is such bullshit.

You can be healthy with a diet that includes meat
You can be healthy with a diet that is vegetarian
You can be healthy with a diet that is vegan

I also know some vegans that are obese and eat junk food all day because they are too lazy to "get creative" with their options. They are not healthy, but they are vegan, so shut the fuck up.

ThyCorndog posted...

better for the environment

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

ThyCorndog posted...

better for animals

The only point I'll agree with you 100%.
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I'm pretty sure that god says in the bible he made animals specifically for us to eat them. :v and that is why they are delicious.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

shut the fuck up.

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ThyCorndog posted...

I watched a documentary and took it at face value

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BlameAnesthesia posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

BlameAnesthesia posted...

shut the fuck up.

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Every culture is built on the sacrifice of another culture. If we have to sacrifice animals for us to live and thrive, then we are justified in doing so. You don't go far if you don't look out for yourself, and this is especially true in the case of the survival of a whole species. If animals had our capabilities they would do the exact same things we do, or even worse, cause animals just don't give a damn. They'll eat their offspring if they're starving, it's just the way it is.

Now, I do firmly believe we should do our most to eliminate suffering from the equation of meat consumption, but that is not something that will change overnight. But we do get to vote for these changes with our wallets.
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Mister_Spyker posted...

Every culture is built on the sacrifice of another culture. If we have to sacrifice animals for us to live and thrive, then we are justified in doing so. You don't go far if you don't look out for yourself, and this is especially true in the case of the survival of a whole species. If animals had our capabilities they would do the exact same things we do, or even worse, cause animals just don't give a damn. They'll eat their offspring if they're starving, it's just the way it is.

Now, I do firmly believe we should do our most to eliminate suffering from the equation of meat consumption, but that is not something that will change overnight. But we do get to vote for these changes with our wallets.

That I do agree with. Most farms around here are very humane. A lot of the farmers here are some of the most caring of their animals.
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better tasting semen

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Substitute with whatever microorganisms can affect algae.

lol substitute whatever can affect meat.

My dude, there's ultimately only once source of b12 and that's bacteria. Earth's b12 eggs are in one very large bacteria basket. If some impossible mega bacteriophage kills all the b12 producing bacteria, meat eaters are equally doomed.
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I love the sounds of sizzlin' meat on a hot pan. I also love watching the meat's natural juices ooze out as your take a bite out of a burger.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRd13bMWhsU" data-time="
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Becoming smug
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MaverickXeo posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Admittedly I haven't investigated this in-depth to know for certain, but I'd be curious to the widespread impact if everyone ate vegan, since there is limited landmass to grow enough food to meet caloric demands for 8 billion people versus a small subset of the first world. Would higher demand lead to agricultural practice that mirrors the meat industry in carbon pollution? I don't know.

If literally the whole planet went vegan tomorrow (it won't happen but bear with me) then our Carbon Dioxide problems disappear nearly instantly.

Food also becomes much cheaper as a whole since you no longer need to give tons of it to animals.

It would not stop CO2 problems... it would shift the CO2 production. Yes, animals would not have to eat, but we would have a LOT more grown to support the population. That would mean more land used, more farm equipment used, more transporting of said goods, etc.

You just do not get the calories from non-meat sources that you do from meat sources... which is why meat is often a 'superior' food.

https://www.livestrong.com/article/547226-which-gives-you-more-energy-meat-or-vegetables

Basically, more from meat than vegetables... so you would need to eat more vegetables to offset the meat.

For what its worth, my sister and her husband are vegans... they spend SO much more money on food than I do... I'd wager they spend 4 or 5 times what I do per month.

You're underestimating how resource intensive factory farmed animals are. That includes how much crop we're feeding them to get small amounts of meat in return.

Which brings me to your article. I'm shocked it exists. Someone spent the time to explain that on average, a 3 oz portion of meat contains more calories than 3 oz of plants. Was this meant for children?

Try looking up how resource intensive each calorie of meat vs vegetables is. That's the only thing that matters to the point you're trying to make.

And you can spend a ton of money with any diet. I personally have saved SO much money on food since going vegan. Bulk frozen fruits, vegetables, beans, and oats I'm damn near eating for free.
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Krojen posted...

lol substitute whatever can affect meat.

My dude, there's ultimately only once source of b12 and that's bacteria. Earth's b12 eggs are in one very large bacteria basket. If some impossible mega bacteriophage kills all the b12 producing bacteria, meat eaters are equally doomed.

You're still missing my point entirely.

Where B12 came from evolutionarily is not relevant to the point that current sources in the food chain are largest in meat and dairy, not plants. Obviously we can fortify foods with nutrients that don't contain them naturally, so it's not like a vegan society wouldn't have access or means to B12. I'm not a fucking idiot.

I'm saying a society that all switched to veganism 100% right now would require either all foods to be fortified with it, or produced in pill form as a supplement. This requires factories to process all the grains and lentils in the world that feeds the entire world. That means a large number of factories, or otherwise lots of cars/machines/infrastructure to transport them to the places where this can be done.

All of this comes with a carbon footprint. It was a response to the guy who is absolutely certain a 100% vegan society would be less of a carbon footprint. Without knowing exactly how many grains and lentils it would take to feed the entire world, we don't know the carbon footprint cost of processing all the food in the entire world.

Not saying vegans are shit out of luck when it comes to B12. I'm saying the current sources in the food chain requires some ingenuity, because you're not feeding 8 billion people on edible forms of algae to meet the demand for fucks sake.

The bacteriophage comment was simply referencing that if one source of meat right now ran into issues in the supply chain--say chicken, it's not like the world would suffer nutritionally.

If the one or two plant-based options for B12 ran into supply chain issues, the population could theoretically be at risk. You simply increase the probability of running into issue. Not saying it would, and frankly we'd have years to fix the issue because subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord takes years of b12 deficiency to occur.

I'm talking about theoreticals, but it frustrates me to all hell when vegans simply ignore any potential logistical issue for sake of pure idealism.

Because of course it's all healthier and better for the environment no matter what. Save the animals. LOVE. LIFE. HAPPINESS.

Fuck, I care about the animals too, but I'm a fucking realist. Lab grown meat is a better alternative than wanting everyone to make your idiosyncratic lifestyle choice.
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Let me know if I'm still missing your points.

Your positions are:
1. It's possible (probable?) that switching the world's diet from eating a ton of meat to eating a ton of lentils and grains would have a worse impact on our carbon footprint.

2. We have multiple sources of meat, so if chicken goes bad in the supply chain, we still have beef. All meat is equal so crisis averted. There is only one or two kinds of algae that produces B12, so if something goes bad in the supply chain for that algae, the vegan society is B12 doomed.

My counter:
1. This is a desperate devil's advocate. I don't believe you actually believe this is a realistic possibility.

2. There are far more algae, plant, and bacteria sources of B12 than there are animals that we eat. A vegan society would never depend on a single patch of algae for all of its B12 needs. Not that it'd ever come to this, but drinking from any pond, lake, stream, etc will get you your B12.

Meat in general doesn't even have much B12. The only people that aren't usually low in B12 are those that eat fortified foods like cereals. There's a reason B12 stores are popping up everywhere and it isn't because there's so many vegans running around.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

All of this comes with a carbon footprint. It was a response to the guy who is absolutely certain a 100% vegan society would be less of a carbon footprint. Without knowing exactly how many grains and lentils it would take to feed the entire world, we don't know the carbon footprint cost of processing all the food in the entire world.

The exact carbon footprint of a 100% vegan planet is irrelevant, we know it is lower than a meat eating planet because you have to grow the grains to feed the animals which have their own carbon footprint, for years before the animals are ready to market for meat.

A new grain crop will grow every year and can be shipped out directly to people for food.

grow plants -> feed people will always take less energy and produce less waste than

grow plants -> feed animals -> repeat for years -> constantly having to clean out animal waste products -> feed people (which is harder because meat has stricter storage and transport requirements than grains).
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Better to be a vegetarian instead.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Better to be a vegetarian instead.

I agree. Veganism is taking a diet to the extreme which is a recipe (no pun intended) for disaster.
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Pretending you have something to feel superior about on the internet while barely being able to lift the mouse.
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Being a pretentious douchebag.
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Guy_Fieri posted...

There are no benefits you tree licking nerds

Guy Fieri with the dagger
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