Current Events > tipping myth - they make less than min wage

(+) Yeah! (+)

If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any week, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate

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What restaurant is going to give shifts to the staff that can't even earn tips

You're talking about an industry where most of the workforce are casual, work less than 20 hours a week and are never going to stick around

This is one of those laws with all good intentions but no actual thought process put behind it
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pinky0926 posted...

What restaurant is going to give shifts to the staff that can't even earn tips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBqojLpAnI" data-time="

They should get fired since getting tips in America as a waiter/waitress is so easy a monkey could do it.
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Yeah...try going up to your manager asking to make up the difference and see how many shifts you get going forward lmao kids who got their first job at a lemonade stand 2 weeks ago trying to drop "knowledge"
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we do make less than minimum wage. If you are competent than your basic salary is somewhere between
$2.75\hour - $5.50\hour (and you almost never see an actual check. Usually its a check paper with the words "this is not a check" written across it". It does display your hourly wage numbers and what not. But its not an actually check. )

However if you took the tips you made during a shift and averaged that out over the number of hours you worked you easily surpass the minimum wage anywhere in the united states. If you do not average minimum wage based on your tips, than serving tables is not for you.
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In Illinois, they are paid at least 60% of the minimum wage and at the end of the day are expected to make up that remaining 40% through tips. If thats not reached, the manager must make that up on the spot, and that means less hours, maybe even being let go in the future.

Its a shitty situation.
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If youre good with people, sure you can give it a shot and maybe walk out with plenty of money every day.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Flockaveli posted...

In Illinois, they are paid at least 60% of the minimum wage and at the end of the day are expected to make up that remaining 40% through tips. If thats not reached, the manager must make that up on the spot, and that means less hours, maybe even being let go in the future.

Its a shitty situation.

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

Except the ones who work the shit shifts, either by luck of the draw or because they're being punished for not making enough in tips, causing the manager to have to up their hourly base rate.

Just like flat rate mechanics, tipping is less about doing your very best and more about getting a good hand or knowing how to game the system.

fenderbender321 posted...

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

I've had two different servers fuck with customers food because they tipped less than the servers wanted. Both times they justified it to themselves by saying something about shitty tips deserve shitty food and in both cases they were fired after kitchen staff told the managers about it.
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dude shut up, you're not saying anything everyone doesn't already know and no one cares that you're a cheap ass except the poor girl that gets stuck refilling your mountain dew for you
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fenderbender321 posted...

treewojima posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

Flockaveli posted...

In Illinois, they are paid at least 60% of the minimum wage and at the end of the day are expected to make up that remaining 40% through tips. If thats not reached, the manager must make that up on the spot, and that means less hours, maybe even being let go in the future.

Its a shitty situation.

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

Except the ones who work the shit shifts, either by luck of the draw or because they're being punished for not making enough in tips, causing the manager to have to up their hourly base rate.

Just like flat rate mechanics, tipping is less about doing your very best and more about getting a good hand or knowing how to game the system.

You just revealed another great thing about the tipping system...flexibility. In those rare instances where a restaurant has what you call a "shit shift", management can simply compensate that particular shift with a higher wage to incentivize people to work them.

But most restaurants I've ever associated with don't have "shit shifts". Some are better than others, but I've never heard of a server who's not bringing in a respectable amount of tips, regardless of shift. That's because restaurants schedule and phase workers based on need. At least, the restaurants that actually stay in business do.

you're only compensated if you didn't make minimum wage on average over a pay period, not each individual shift
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If you cant afford to tip then stay at home and eat.
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Link43130 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

I've had two different servers fuck with customers food because they tipped less than the servers wanted. Both times they justified it to themselves by saying something about shitty tips deserve shitty food and in both cases they were fired after kitchen staff told the managers about it.

Where do you work that people are paying before they get all their food?
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Link43130 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

I've had two different servers fuck with customers food because they tipped less than the servers wanted. Both times they justified it to themselves by saying something about shitty tips deserve shitty food and in both cases they were fired after kitchen staff told the managers about it.

They got tipped before the meal was done??? I dont understand how they knew their tip would be shitty??? Was it returning customers food they fucked with??? Just sounds like shitty servers that dont deserve tips in the first place.

Nobody has ever fucked up someones meal because of bad tipping. Definitely talked shit about low tippers though.
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KronoCloud posted...

They got tipped before the meal was done??? I dont understand how they knew their tip would be shitty??? Was it returning customers food they fucked with??? Just sounds like shitty servers that dont deserve tips in the first place.

thronedfire2 posted...

Where do you work that people are paying before they get all their food?

the customers were semi-regulars, in maybe two, three times a month.
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pinky0926 posted...

What restaurant is going to give shifts to the staff that can't even earn tips

You're talking about an industry where most of the workforce are casual, work less than 20 hours a week and are never going to stick around

This is one of those laws with all good intentions but no actual thought process put behind it

When I worked at spoons we actively weren't allowed tips with many managers. Had to put it towards the "staff funds" We did get bonuses and stuff though, along with minimum wage so eh. The more relaxed managers let us keep tips at least.

This is in the UK though, so doesn't really apply to America tbh >.>
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Link43130 posted...

KronoCloud posted...

They got tipped before the meal was done??? I dont understand how they knew their tip would be shitty??? Was it returning customers food they fucked with??? Just sounds like shitty servers that dont deserve tips in the first place.

thronedfire2 posted...

Where do you work that people are paying before they get all their food?

the customers were semi-regulars, in maybe two, three times a month.

Again, logic dictates that they are shitty servers who probably didnt deserve tips.
Stop generalizing servers. They put up with a lot of bullshit.
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TC will never tell his server he's not going to tip before ordering, I wonder why? Maybe because he knows he'll get slower and shittier service as a result.


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KronoCloud posted...

Stop generalizing servers. They put up with a lot of bullshit.

boo hoo? a lot of people put up with a lot of bullshit at work. thats kinda what life is lol
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Flockaveli posted...

In Illinois, they are paid at least 60% of the minimum wage and at the end of the day are expected to make up that remaining 40% through tips. If thats not reached, the manager must make that up on the spot, and that means less hours, maybe even being let go in the future.

Its a shitty situation.

Is it though?

If you work at some place where the crowd resembles your average edgy CE fucker then sure.

Otherwise? You're going to more than make it up. Especially if you're reasonably attractive and not terrible at interacting with people.
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if they're regulars and they're shitty tippers just start giving shitty service
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Link43130 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

I've had two different servers fuck with customers food because they tipped less than the servers wanted. Both times they justified it to themselves by saying something about shitty tips deserve shitty food and in both cases they were fired after kitchen staff told the managers about it.

thats why its better to have increased menu prices than play a guessing game with each johnny entitled
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How did the server know the top was going to be crappy before the guest paid? How is the guest paying for food before they received it? Sounds like you are stretching some aspect of the situation.

In over a decade of being in this industry I have never seen or heard of a server or bartender messing with the actual food going to a guest. Provide crappy service because the guest is a known bad tipper or known to be difficult? Yes that I have seen and heard of. But never actively messing with the food.

It makes no sense to do this. If you get caught you are fired over that one bad guest and throw away multiple future shifts and guests that can make up for that one bad experience.

Long slow money always wins over fast quick money.
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blazer4lyfe posted...

It makes no sense to do this. If you get caught you are fired over that one bad guest and throw away multiple future shifts and guests that can make up for that one bad experience.

you seem to think these entitled lot have common sense
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ModLogic posted...

blazer4lyfe posted...

It makes no sense to do this. If you get caught you are fired over that one bad guest and throw away multiple future shifts and guests that can make up for that one bad experience.

you seem to think these entitled lot have common sense

Why are you so fixated on people who are working service jobs? did you date a waitress who fucked around on you or something?
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Pillowpantz posted...

They should get fired since getting tips in America as a waiter/waitress is so easy a monkey could do it.

All the things I can think of that would result in me not tipping are the kinds of things that you really should get fired for anyway, if they happened often enough for you to not be making $7-ish an hour.

Like spitting in the food or slapping someone at the table or being unashamedly rude or whatnot.
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https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5888347/one-more-case-against-tipping

The way we tip reflects our prejudices, argues Freakonomics author Stephen Dubner. Here's what he told Brian Lehrer: "The data show very clearly that African Americans receive less in tips than whites, and so there is a legal argument to be made that as a protected class, African American servers are getting less for doing the same work. And therefore, the institution of tipping is inherently unfair."

But not only are black servers making less money than white servers black diners are perceived to be leaving less money than white diners. Data collected in 2009 from more than 1,000 servers across the US "found that over sixty-five percent [of servers] rated African Americans as below average tippers." As a result, restaurant workers of all colors dislike waiting on black customers, studies found. The economy of tipping is so racially charged that both servers and diners are affected by prejudice.

Racism isn't the only kind of discrimination baked into the American tipping system. Women servers, too, face routine discrimination. As Lynn told Dubner, blonde, slender, larger-breasted women in their 30s earn some of the highest tips. Granted, the decision of how large a tip to leave is up to the subjective whims of the tipper, and different people have their own aesthetic preferences. But when a server's main source of income is her tips, and if those tips are regulated by the prejudices of the tippers, then a case could potentially be made that certain wage practices of restaurants are discriminatory.

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Serving is not, and should not be, a minimum wage job
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Serving is not, and should not be, a minimum wage job

it is very much a min wage role. its a role literally a dog can be trained to do.
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ModLogic posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Serving is not, and should not be, a minimum wage job

it is very much a min wage role. its a role literally a dog can be trained to do.

The ignorance is astounding
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ModLogic posted...

it is very much a min wage role.

Wrong
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ModLogic posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Serving is not, and should not be, a minimum wage job

it is very much a min wage role. its a role literally a dog can be trained to do.

How do you make money?
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ModLogic posted...

https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5888347/one-more-case-against-tipping

The way we tip reflects our prejudices, argues Freakonomics author Stephen Dubner. Here's what he told Brian Lehrer: "The data show very clearly that African Americans receive less in tips than whites, and so there is a legal argument to be made that as a protected class, African American servers are getting less for doing the same work. And therefore, the institution of tipping is inherently unfair."

But not only are black servers making less money than white servers black diners are perceived to be leaving less money than white diners. Data collected in 2009 from more than 1,000 servers across the US "found that over sixty-five percent [of servers] rated African Americans as below average tippers." As a result, restaurant workers of all colors dislike waiting on black customers, studies found. The economy of tipping is so racially charged that both servers and diners are affected by prejudice.

Racism isn't the only kind of discrimination baked into the American tipping system. Women servers, too, face routine discrimination. As Lynn told Dubner, blonde, slender, larger-breasted women in their 30s earn some of the highest tips. Granted, the decision of how large a tip to leave is up to the subjective whims of the tipper, and different people have their own aesthetic preferences. But when a server's main source of income is her tips, and if those tips are regulated by the prejudices of the tippers, then a case could potentially be made that certain wage practices of restaurants are discriminatory.

On the other hand, it's one of those tablecloth scenarios. Everything would have been fine if there had never been a tablecloth, sure, but if you pull it off the table now while everyone has their fine china stacked on it, you're gonna cause a much bigger problem. You gotta take the dishes off the table first.

This means the way to go about it is actually exactly what this topic is doing--to discuss problems with the practice--instead of just tipping nothing because you're a cheap asshole who found an outlet.
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Dont question the scam...
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"duh yous so cheep. stop it or weez be paying more for fuud"

please make up your mind
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Serving is not, and should not be, a minimum wage job

Why? It's a job any Joe Shmoe can do. LOL if you think serving takes any kind of skill.
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Link43130 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

I've had two different servers fuck with customers food because they tipped less than the servers wanted. Both times they justified it to themselves by saying something about shitty tips deserve shitty food and in both cases they were fired after kitchen staff told the managers about it.

I worked in a pizza place and some of the things that were done in response to customers not adequately tipping the delivery drivers are things I wouldn't even be willing to post here. Even managers would do things. I don't recall anyone ever getting into trouble.

Being fired required things like having several instances of not showing up for work or in one guy's case, repeatedly breaking appearance rules (the company was over the top ocd about this and maybe 1/4 of the rules were actually enforced. This guy was an absolute mess and even shit himself while delivering one time) and having a meltdown involving grabbing a knife and having a murderous look in his eyes. The managers had wanted an excuse to fire him for a while, so when I told them about this. I was asked if he "made me feel uncomfortable" and I replied honestly "I wouldn't say uncomfortable, but I was on edge and he was only a few feet away from me. I was ready to do whatever I had to do in order to defend myself if he made one wrong move. I didn't think he would, but I was prepared." He had set the knife down after about 5-6 seconds.

That dude deserved it though. He had an alt-right sort of attitude before that was a thing. He was slow as fuck when delivering and took orders that did not go together to deprive other drivers of tips, because he didn't respect them, as he had a mortgage to pay and they were mostly college students. When it was just me and him, he would talk shit about liberals and be openly racist, even using the hard r n-word on multiple occasions. I didn't give a fuck because it was just more ammo I could use against him later on. He also admitted that he really disliked me at first but was "wrong about me once he got to know me." I later found out this was because he initially thought I was gay, assuming that because another employee (also not gay) behaved flamboyantly at times and I imitated him in mockery. Racist dude took that banter seriously and thus was also clearly homophobic. Everyone hated him. He actually mistakenly thought he had me as an ally though because he didn't realize my mostly positive interaction with him was simply because that was convenient for me and I could tolerate him, and he also thought I shared his shitty views when in fact I was just enabling him.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Link43130 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

I've had two different servers fuck with customers food because they tipped less than the servers wanted. Both times they justified it to themselves by saying something about shitty tips deserve shitty food and in both cases they were fired after kitchen staff told the managers about it.

I worked in a pizza place and some of the things that were done in response to customers not adequately tipping the delivery drivers are things I wouldn't even be willing to post here. Even managers would do things. I don't recall anyone ever getting into trouble.

this is likely incredibly common. but like a boys club such as cops or armed forces. members and ex members feel they need to defend the industry because by extension they are defending themselves.
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confirmed tc is an unemployed basement dweller
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ModLogic posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Link43130 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

It's really not. No server wants to switch to a fair wage. Servers make decent money under the tipping system. It's why ModLogic hates it so much. But really I don't see why he just doesn't tip less. Nobody really cares at all. The server might care for 5 seconds, but they aren't gonna do anything to your food. I promise.

I've had two different servers fuck with customers food because they tipped less than the servers wanted. Both times they justified it to themselves by saying something about shitty tips deserve shitty food and in both cases they were fired after kitchen staff told the managers about it.

I worked in a pizza place and some of the things that were done in response to customers not adequately tipping the delivery drivers are things I wouldn't even be willing to post here. Even managers would do things. I don't recall anyone ever getting into trouble.

this is likely incredibly common. but like a boys club such as cops or armed forces. members and ex members feel they need to defend the industry because by extension they are defending themselves.

It was definitely a "club" atmosphere and I was a part of it literally from day 1, but the women were no better. There was sexism, mild sexual harrassment going both ways all the time and everyone was irreverent. It was more of a "employees vs. customers" attitude though (well, shitty customers. We were always willing to go above and beyond for known good customers).

If you've seen the movie Waiting, the culture was very similar. In some cases, reality was more tame than the movie (we weren't whipping our genitals out at each other) but in other cases, the movie was much more tame than reality, mostly in regard to bad customers. In one case, we had some dickhead being rude to a (female) manager when she told him he wasn't in our delivery area (he listed his address as a street that didn't exist. He was probably from a town by the same name as ours but in another state. We was rude and called her a c*** so she hung up. He called back to try again. She told me to pretend to take his order just to get him to fuck off, so I did. At the end, he said "make sure you have that c*** deliver it so I can punch her in the face." We had a little mini megaphone for some reason, so I grabbed it and screamed through it into the phone, then hung up. We didn't have to deal with him ever again.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

It was definitely a "club" atmosphere

did a couple polls and the number 1 reason why people tipped was out of fear
ignorance being the second reason
feeling superior to the lowly servant coming in last

not surprising how similar these "clubs" all are
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ModLogic posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

It was definitely a "club" atmosphere

did a couple polls and the number 1 reason why people tipped was out of fear
ignorance being the second reason
feeling superior to the lowly servant coming in last

not surprising how similar these "clubs" all are

It's different in the circumstances I was in though. There was never a perception of obligation for the inside crew to get tips. We were paid more than minimum wage and did have a tip jar (corporate said we weren't allowed to, so we changed it to a "thank you jar"). We always appreciated when people tipped, but never looked down on anyone who didn't. Different story for drivers though. They made less than minimum wage and only received a small amount of compensation for gas mileage. If someone failed to tip, the driver could actually lose money because of it, between gas and normal vehicle wear and tear.

One driver used to work at a different pizza place and told me about a notorious bad customer that the drivers started refusing to deliver to. The owner was annoyed by this, but wanted to see for himself what she was like, so he personally delivered her order one night. She tipped a small amount of change. He asked if that's all she wanted to give him for a tip and she gave him attitude and threatened to complain to the manager. He told her that he was the owner of the business and that her food smelled good and he was hungry, so he was going to bring it back and eat it himself. He then tossed her money including the change at her screen door and walked away with her food. She was blacklisted at that point.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Different story for drivers though. They made less than minimum wage and only received a small amount of compensation for gas mileage. If someone failed to tip, the driver could actually lose money because of it, between gas and normal vehicle wear and tear.

they can get another min wage job. the customer is not obligated in any way.

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

She was blacklisted at that point.

lol the boss got upset he had to pay his workers.
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ModLogic posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Different story for drivers though. They made less than minimum wage and only received a small amount of compensation for gas mileage. If someone failed to tip, the driver could actually lose money because of it, between gas and normal vehicle wear and tear.

they can get another min wage job. the customer is not obligated in any way.

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

She was blacklisted at that point.

lol the boss got upset he had to pay his workers.

lol imagine shitposting this hard about something you have literally no level of personal understanding toward.

When I say blacklisted, I mean within the entire town. Owners all know each other and many places were owned by family members of other owners. She'd be lucky to get delivery from any place after that.

We also had the ability to add delivery charges to customers on a whim if they weren't going to tip. Without their knowledge and without their consent. If they questioned the price, we would just lie. The extra charges would go to the drivers as tip.
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