Current Events > Biscuit watches, briefly reviews, and eventually ranks the MCU *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah fuck the complaints Civil War is still in my top 5

Also Cap was clearly right
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DarthAragorn posted...

Yeah fuck the complaints Civil War is still in my top 5

Also Cap was clearly right

I think Cap being factually correct about Bucky doesn't mean that he was going about it well. That's more what I'm saying. I think he handled it about as poorly as possible and it sorta adds to my contrivance issues.
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Bump
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Even if Cap was going about things poorly, Tony isn't right. I understand the reasoning behind making someone accountable for the Avenger's actions, but the Sokovia Accords specifically put them under the control of the UN. That would be horrible. The UN is corrupt as shit in the real world, in a world with Hydra it's even worse. UN oversight <<<<<<< No oversight at all.
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The Accords were terribly stupid, but so were Steve's answers.

BP was the only one thinking straight at the end, hence the movie slapping you with it.

I love Civil War anyway. Hawkeye MVP
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Cap let Bucky slide on too many things. Brainwashing or not, Bucky still killed dozens of people, maybe more. Hes too dangerous and Cap cant be the judge and jury of all that.
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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Cap let Bucky slide on too many things. Brainwashing or not, Bucky still killed dozens of people, maybe more. Hes too dangerous and Cap cant be the judge and jury of all that.

Also this
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Dr. Strange tomorrow probably
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Dr. Strange today probably

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Still seems fairly likely
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With brainwashing he literally is not responsible for his actions. Bucky was always a good guy and mcu cap owes him a lot from when they were growing up. The real Bucky is not capable of such things.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Still seems extremely likely

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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Dr. Strange tomorrow probably

Your 4 movies away, time to power through

Dr Strange
Guardians of the Galaxy 2
Spiderman
Thor 3
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Man. Crazy to think how close I'm getting, this seemed insurmountable. Should easily be able to see IW in theaters, I would think.
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You should probably still watch BP again. Get hyped
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I really disliked Infinity War, but that's just me. Based on your reviews thus far you'll probably like it.
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bump
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muffins and biscuits
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Cap let Bucky slide on too many things. Brainwashing or not, Bucky still killed dozens of people, maybe more. Hes too dangerous and Cap cant be the judge and jury of all that.

Also this

Brainwashing makes you literally not responsible. The people who committed crimes under Kilgrave, are they responsible?
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dave_is_slick posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Cap let Bucky slide on too many things. Brainwashing or not, Bucky still killed dozens of people, maybe more. Hes too dangerous and Cap cant be the judge and jury of all that.

Also this

Brainwashing makes you literally not responsible. The people who committed crimes under Kilgrave, are they responsible?

Im not saying guilt, Im saying Cap didnt regard Bucky as a grave enough threat, IMO. It took him ten seconds to turn into a killing machine again when the guy read the words.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Im not saying guilt, Im saying Cap didnt regard Bucky as a grave enough threat, IMO. It took him ten seconds to turn into a killing machine again when the guy read the words.

That wasn't revealed until the plan actually was going into effect, why would he anticipate that?
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Makeveli_lives posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

Im not saying guilt, Im saying Cap didnt regard Bucky as a grave enough threat, IMO. It took him ten seconds to turn into a killing machine again when the guy read the words.

That wasn't revealed until the plan actually was going into effect, why would he anticipate that?

Why would Cap anticipate that this brainwashed super-assassin cyborg who barely knows who or where he is could, theoretically, backslide? Is that your question?..
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Why would Cap anticipate that this brainwashed super-assassin cyborg who barely knows who or where he is could, theoretically, backslide? Is that your question?..

Bucky didn't tell him about the winter soldier program or that he could still be activated until after he was activated.
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Makeveli_lives posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

Why would Cap anticipate that this brainwashed super-assassin cyborg who barely knows who or where he is could, theoretically, backslide? Is that your question?..

Bucky didn't tell him about the winter soldier program or that he could still be activated until after he was activated.

This. I mean, it's not like they've had any time to discuss anything. Cap has like 3 minutes in the apartment with him before special forces storm the place. That's his first interaction since the end of WS when he was just remembering who he was, and it ends with Bucky's capture, immediately followed by Zemo activating him.

With HYDRA shattered at the end of AoU Bucky probably assumed at first the knowledge of how to control him was lost.
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Youre both missing the point. Cap wasnt supposed to my omniscient, but he shouldve not gone full loose cannon with a walking weapon of mass destruction when he truly had no idea how Bucky worked. It was extremely reckless.

Hell, the PTSD alone. Bucky and Cap were half-fighting in his apartment too. What if Bucky just snapped, no Hydra manipulation involved? Cap had faith in his friend, I get that, but he let that supersede caution with a really dangerous subject.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Youre both missing the point. Cap wasnt supposed to my omniscient, but he shouldve not gone full loose cannon with a walking weapon of mass destruction when he truly had no idea how Bucky worked. It was extremely reckless.

Hell, the PTSD alone. Bucky and Cap were half-fighting in his apartment too. What if Bucky just snapped, no Hydra manipulation involved? Cap had faith in his friend, I get that, but he let that supersede caution with a really dangerous subject.

But doesn't that just straight up fit naivety of caps character?
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Sure! I didnt say he was out of character, I said he was out of line.

I think if hed sat down and talked to Tony and the team about Bucky, setting aside the accords for a minute, they couldve come up with a plan that didnt involve Cap potentially getting a ton of civilians killed during that chase scene. Tony didnt need that much convincing it was a frame job; hell, the stupid evil plot hinged entirely on him realizing Bucky was framed anyway, but thats besides the point.
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I vote less debate on Bucky and more Dr. Strange.

gotta get that strange
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Watched it last night but gotta get to the review
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Sure! I didnt say he was out of character, I said he was out of line.

I think if hed sat down and talked to Tony and the team about Bucky, setting aside the accords for a minute, they couldve come up with a plan that didnt involve Cap potentially getting a ton of civilians killed during that chase scene. Tony didnt need that much convincing it was a frame job; hell, the stupid evil plot hinged entirely on him realizing Bucky was framed anyway, but thats besides the point.

Fair enough, and good point.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

get to the review

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Doctor Strange

I had no real expectations going into this movie outside of thinking it would probably at least meet the threshold of basically entertaining that all the MCU movies have hit so far. Coming out, my initial impression was "you know what? That might have been one of my favorites so far," yet when I then went down the list to compare which ones I thought it was better than, there weren't that many. I suppose that speaks to the quality of the MCU that this may still be on the lower end yet was very thoroughly enjoyable. Funnily, it was pretty easily my wife's least favorite so far (she has been watching with me), so our initial reactions couldn't have been more disparate.

I think what it came down to for that difference in opinion is that, well, the movie is extremely cliche in many ways -- powers of light and darkness, Eastern spiritual training and mythology, an ancient teacher, training montages, the works, and that doesn't even mention that Stephen admittedly is pretty much Dr. Tony Stark, M.D. to begin the film. That said, while that understandably grated on a viewer like my wife who was put off by all those cliches, I found it endearing how hard the movie leaned into them. I thought the film was very self-aware and not only embraced those tropes, but injected them with steroids and thrust them into a hyperdrive of crazy, bizarre, over-the-top sequences that were really thrilling to watch.

Worth noting there may have been a hint of bias on my end in one regard; I was at a concert last week and a man had a heart attack mid-show and died about ten feet away from me. On top of that, the band happened to release a record the next day that sort of ends on the note of "is time and mortality what gives our lives meaning, even when it takes our lives away?" The timing of that and the death have been on my mind, and then to hear the Ancient One essentially echo that exact sentiment during her death sequence really got me. The movie admittedly benefited by showing up in my life at a particularly strange time, but nonetheless, I thought that was really powerful, and I found her death to be one of the most effective in the MCU so far.

Ultimately, the strongest parts were the incredibly creative action sequences; I'm not really an action guy, but it's amazing how many ways Marvel can come up with for our heroes and villains to kick ass and take names. Similarly to how impressed I was with how Ant-Man managed to make those powers so entertaining, I never got tired of watching cities and rooms collapse in on each other in an ever-shifting obstacle course. Total feast for the eyes; Inception, eat your heart out. I also totally loved the Dormamu Bargain scene, a meme I now at long last understand. Really clever solution to foil a timeless entity with time itself, something he wouldn't be familiar with.

What holds the movie back when I compare it to others, though, is the overall weakness of the supporting cast. For one, I almost audibly groaned as soon as I saw him make eyes at a girl in the first two minutes of the movie -- it would be really nice for these films to establish an empathetic side for a character without leaning on a love interest for once, especially one that was somehow even more underutilized than Jane in the Thor movies. Didn't care much about Mordo or his weird heel turn, didn't think Wong was particularly funny, and thought Kaecilius pushed Malekith for the Least Inspiring Spoopy Dimensional Bad Guy award (great action sequences helped). Benedict Cumberbatch was a captivating presence as expected, but the script was basically Sherlock for the first ten minutes; him playing brilliant, arrogant guy shifting through life and death cases, dismissing them as too boring was SO shameless I was hoping it would be a gag and Martin Freeman's character would show up.

All in all, a really entertaining and worthwhile entry, but perhaps not their deepest, strongest work? Still fun as hell.
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Guardians 2
Spiderman
Thor 3

Then your done
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

I almost audibly groaned as soon as I saw him make eyes at a girl in the first two minutes of the movie -- it would be really nice for these films to establish an empathetic side for a character without leaning on a love interest

couldn't agree more

ultron woulda been better without banner/romanoff
civil war woulda been better (well, not worse) without cap/peggy's niece whose name I'm blanking on
etc.

and that's not solely for MCU films, i maintain this holds true for a good chunk of movies
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Muffinz0rz posted...

civil war woulda been better (well, not worse) without cap/peggy's niece whose name I'm blanking on
etc.

That at least gave us the Bucky and Falcon scene in the car. Can you move your seat up and the look of approval they both gave Cap for that kiss were both great.
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mew4ever posted...

Can you move your seat up

true but i mean they didn't need cap and her to kiss for that dialogue to transpire

the look was nice i guess but i think it outweighs the "yawn" factor that unnecessary romance illicits from me in movies these days
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mew4ever posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

civil war woulda been better (well, not worse) without cap/peggy's niece whose name I'm blanking on
etc.

That at least gave us the Bucky and Falcon scene in the car. Can you move your seat up and the look of approval they both gave Cap for that kiss were both great.

Fair point, that was one of the better laughs in CW. Though I must admit Cap/Peggy Jr. was so forgettable that I literally did not remember it until it was just brought up.
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Interested to see if your lady changes her mind after Infinity War. No spoilers here but Dr Strange was amazing in Infinity War. I too was kinda lukewarm on him in his stand alone film, but Cumberpatch absolutely owned the character in IW.
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Yeah, I don't even mind love interests when they develop them a little. I get why some people thought Banner/Romanoff was forced, because it admittedly was kinda "guess what? This is a thing!", but you know, they developed it and the actors threw their weight into it. I felt some screen chemistry. Didn't bug me.

It DOES bug me when you get Natalie Portman and Rachel McAdams to show up and have brooding heroes contemplate in quite moments and then not do anything with. Jane at least gets a little follow-up here and there and got another spin in Thor 2 with a little more substance than Thor 1, but seriously the last time we see Rachel, Stephen is just like "okay gotta go save the world" and there is no further follow-up.

-Cap/Peggy was great
-Tony/Pepper is overall great
-Bruce/Natasha was fine IMO
-Thor/Jane had good chemistry via their talented actors but no development
-I assume we're just forgetting Bruce 1.0/Betty, but that was okay enough
-Was Steve/Natasha supposed to be implied in Winter Soldier? I feel like there was some will-they-won't-they there, which was kinda winked at in Ultron
-Stephen/Christine was nothing
-Steve/Peggy Jr is the most nothing nothing that ever nothinged. When they kissed, my wife yelled SHES NOT EVEN HOT
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mew4ever posted...

Interested to see if your lady changes her mind after Infinity War. No spoilers here but Dr Strange was amazing in Infinity War. I too was kinda lukewarm on him in his stand alone film, but Cumberpatch absolutely owned the character in IW.

To be clear, my wife and I watched and adored Sherlock. We love Benedict Cumberbatch and she thought his performance was basically all that made the movie worth watching. I imagine she'll love him as a character, just didn't like the whole setting of the movie.
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Mads Mikkelsen: "Mister..."
Breakfast Cumberbun: "Its Doctor"
Mads: "Mister Doctor?"
Bumblebee Chiropractor: "No, it's Strange"
Mads: "Who am I to judge?"

This was my favorite exchange in the MCU until infinity war
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Dr strange is one of the few that is less entertaining on rewatch but I still enjoy it and place it in a similar place with black panther, with black panther being more rewatchable.
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Von_Miller posted...

Mads Mikkelsen: "Mister..."
Breakfast Cumberbun: "Its Doctor"
Mads: "Mister Doctor?"
Bumblebee Chiropractor: "No, it's Strange"
Mads: "Who am I to judge?"

This was my favorite exchange in the MCU until infinity war

Thank you for bringing that up! I did love that, and how he continued calling him Mister Doctor
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The Ancient One's death scene with the slow-mo rain and lightning was one of the more beautiful scenes in the franchise, IMO. A quiet moment to contemplate the meaning of life in the context of death. I'm sorry to hear about that event TC, that must have been surreal to have to deal with that during this movie...

Also, I think Dr Strange's visual FX work was top-notch. The visualization of the arcane magic and such, with all the glowing/fiery glyphs was really fun to watch, and the mirror dimension shifty stuff was all wonderful eye-candy throughout the movie. For me it really helped solidify the dimension-bending characteristics of Strange's world.
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His victory over Dormammu is right behind the Guardians dance off for me in unusual but fantastic ways to defeat a superior enemy in the MCU. I loved his tone when Dormammu finally demands to be set free. "No.. I've come to bargain."

I know he's arrogant Tony Stark V2 but I liked how they showed with the guy he passed up as "incurable" that he seemingly hates to lose to the point of dismissing that guy as hopeless, because he knows he doesn't have the ability to fix him.

But then when trapping Dormammu in the time loop and being accurately told it's a fight he'll never win no matter how many times he tries, I loved his response. "No, but I can lose. Again, and again, and again, and again forever. That makes you my prisoner."
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VectorChaos posted...

His victory over Dormammu is right behind the Guardians dance off for me in unusual but fantastic ways to defeat a superior enemy in the MCU. I loved his tone when Dormammu finally demands to be set free. "No.. I've come to bargain."

I know he's arrogant Tony Stark V2 but I liked how they showed with the guy he passed up as "incurable" that he seemingly hates to lose to the point of dismissing that guy as hopeless, because he knows he doesn't have the ability to fix him.

But then when trapping Dormammu in the time loop and being accurately told it's a fight he'll never win no matter how many times he tries, I loved his response. "No, but I can lose. Again, and again, and again, and again forever. That makes you my prisoner."

Good post. Loved all that stuff myself.
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Man, I can't believe I'm so close. Real excited for the next few too... really enjoyed Guardians 1, thought Spidey was real fun in Civil War, and have heard great things about Ragnarok.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

-Was Steve/Natasha supposed to be implied in Winter Soldier? I feel like there was some will-they-won't-they there, which was kinda winked at in Ultron

Cap is everyone's older brother. There was a great comic (I think on Dorkly) that showed how Steve is just looking out for everyone.
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Bump
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Thanks for the bump.

Probably tomorrow for GotG2 busy couple nights.
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