Current Events > Which Franchise did Nintendo ruin by adding changes no one wanted?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mario Party and Paper Mario seem to be the top choices. If you dont have friends then Mario Party will be hard to understand but 2, 3, 6, 7, and to a lesser extent 8 involved skill and strategy.

All of them
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Paper Mario is really the only big one that comes to mind
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All those new Pokemon are pretty ugly.
Fire Emblem Fates was a dumpster fire and a half but hopefully FE-Switch will be good.
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DoomSwell posted...

Fire Emblem Fates

Awakening started the downfall

Not ruin, but still annoying with the breakable weapons in BotW.
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Irony posted...

All of them

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TheMarthKoopa posted...

DoomSwell posted...

Fire Emblem Fates

Awakening started the downfall

Before you call me an Awakening newbie, I beat all 3 GBA games first.
That said, Awakening is far and away the peak of the series, absolutely amazing, almost flawless.
Fates took everything Awakening did right and shat all over it.

DoctorVader posted...

Not ruin, but still annoying with the breakable weapons in BotW.

Get off the Great Plateau.
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DoomSwell posted...

That said, Awakening is far and away the peak of the series, absolutely amazing, almost flawless.

I'm not sure how you could praise Awakening but shit on Fates when they're both awful for the exact same reasons

Definitely Mario Party. The saying "if it aint broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

I also want to throw Pokemon in there too. I really dislike the way Gamefreak add a brilliant new concept to one game, and then remove it entirely in the next.
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DoomSwell posted...

Get off the Great Plateau.

I've played 170 hours fam. That's like 40% of my entire gaming lifetime total.

I've gone into detail about why it's shitty in other topics. Let's not go there.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

Paper Mario is really the only big one that comes to mind

Like when they decided to make Paper Mario instead of another Super Mario RPG?

Yes
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Paper Mario 64 was awesome though.

fenderbender321 posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

Paper Mario is really the only big one that comes to mind

Like when they decided to make Paper Mario instead of another Super Mario RPG?

The good Mario RPG was Squaresoft.
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@TheMarthKoopa posted...

DoomSwell posted...

That said, Awakening is far and away the peak of the series, absolutely amazing, almost flawless.

I'm not sure how you could praise Awakening but shit on Fates when they're both awful for the exact same reasons

Fates ruined Pair Up (<My favorite feature), Kids, Weapon Durability.
Debuffs, Personal Skills, and Dragon Veins are all stupid AF.
The plot was far worse, the avatar classes were far worse, the maps were far worse, the characters are only likable for sex appeal.

Probably shouldn't blame the game for the price or the community but CQ fans are the biggest elitest pricks of all communities.

Thats all I can think of for now, but its the important stuff.
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southcoast09 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

Paper Mario is really the only big one that comes to mind

Like when they decided to make Paper Mario instead of another Super Mario RPG?

The good Mario RPG was Squaresoft.

>Paper Mario 64
>Paper Mario TTYD
>not good

ok
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Paper Mario and Mario Party are the two most obvious choices.

PM64 and TTYD were legit Top 50, maybe even Top 20 RPGs of all time, and they tried a curveball with Super Paper Mario. That game was a fun little sideshow and good in its own right, but then they got the idea that fans only enjoyed the series because of the graphical style/paper gimmick, and well, we all know what happened with the next two games.

Mario Party was never a masterpiece, but basically all the games prior to 9 served the function they were supposed to be perfectly. What they've fucking become is a shell of what the series used to be.
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DoomSwell posted...

That said, Awakening is far and away the peak of the series, absolutely amazing, almost flawless.

yeah big no on that
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Irony posted...

All of them

Yeah, I was gonna say.
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Zelda
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the mario & luigi series has had more and more bullshit tacked onto it
even not counting the weird new gimmicks, the game design itself gets more and more bloated, slowed down, and tiresome

TheMarthKoopa posted...

DoomSwell posted...

Fire Emblem Fates

Awakening started the downfall

Awakening saved the damn series
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Wait, what's wrong with Mario Party now? Never really played any more recent than 6 on the GameCube and the DS one.
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Irony posted...

All of them

OMG you're so edgy! We got a badass over here?
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Fates had a bunch of uninteresting characters and they all look similar which made it even worse.
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Turbam posted...

TheMarthKoopa posted...

DoomSwell posted...

Fire Emblem Fates

Awakening started the downfall

Awakening saved the damn series

Nah, the series died and was brought back with Awakening. Unfortunately it's braindead. Saved or being tortured by continuing to exist?
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Animal Crossing except people did want them

Fire Emblem only seemed dead because their DS outing was absolute garbage and their Wii one in Radiant Dawn was released with horrendous marketing and timing.

Awakening does deserve credit where it's due, but in many more way than not, it's inferior to every entry (since the SNES) except the DS outing, Shadow Dragon. Fates is worse, but at least its gameplay was fairly solid. But for its solid gameplay, it still had garbage corridor designs with one men army tactics that Awakening was even more guilty of. Echoes took literally everything to the right direction, but people love whining about its map design, when it brought back the army vs army aspect that the GC/Wii and the old SNES ones were particularly great for.

I've seen people bash Echoes map design and then praise SNES one which... err.. what lol
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Smash added Corrin and Bayonetta which nobody wanted
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DoctorVader posted...

DoomSwell posted...

Get off the Great Plateau.

I've played 170 hours fam. That's like 40% of my entire gaming lifetime total.

That is very very very little.
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Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.
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marthsheretoo posted...

Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.

you mean the one advance wars title that tried to be balanced at all? the one with an actual story? the best music? a co mechanic that doesn't reward bad play? the one game that made fog remotely fun? the one that made infantry not so completely overpowered? the one that reworked and rebalanced many units? the one advance wars game to have more than two balanced maps?

dual strike is the definition of quanity over quality, with nintendo adding as many cos as they can possibly cram with no regards to balance, a dumb real-time strategy mode nobody plays, and a completely game-breaking co swap mechanic

Shadowplay posted...

Wait, what's wrong with Mario Party now? Never really played any more recent than 6 on the GameCube and the DS one.

Never played it myself, but the issues I saw from watching a few LPs.

The big one is the car. Every players shares a car and the spaces they move on their turn moves this car forward. So boards are long, linear paths that you move through extremely quickly.

There are no coins or stars anymore, they're instead combined into min-stars or some bullshit. That simplifies the game.

Probably as a consequence of the last two, boards just don't seem as interesting.
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the lack of items to purchase and paths to take removes a lot of the tactical depth that mario party originally had
it's more luck-based than ever when the roads are so linear and you can't even control where you're going most of the time when others are controlling you
bowser has a huge amount of weight and he's really easy to trigger, too

3 had big maps that had multiple ways to reach your destination
it had a LOT of dud minigames (as does every game) but it was overall the best package the series had

Illuminoius posted...

marthsheretoo posted...

Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.

you mean the one advance wars title that tried to be balanced at all? the one with an actual story? the best music? a co mechanic that doesn't reward bad play? the one game that made fog remotely fun? the one that made infantry not so completely overpowered? the one that reworked and rebalanced many units? the one advance wars game to have more than two balanced maps?

dual strike is the definition of quanity over quality, with nintendo adding as many cos as they can possibly cram with no regards to balance, a dumb real-time strategy mode nobody plays, and a completely game-breaking co swap mechanic

Yeah, I do, sadly.

I have played more Advance Wars than I want to contemplate, and I admire what they tried to do with Days of Ruin. It's a far more fair and balanced game.

Unfortunately, it's somehow a lot less fun.

I love Days of Ruin for what it is and the production value is far better (great story imo). But I always go back to dual strike because I enjoy playing it more. My friends won't even do multiplayer AW games if it's days of ruin.
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TheMarthKoopa posted...

DoomSwell posted...

Fire Emblem Fates

Awakening started the downfall

TheMarthKoopa posted...

DoomSwell posted...

That said, Awakening is far and away the peak of the series, absolutely amazing, almost flawless.

I'm not sure how you could praise Awakening but shit on Fates when they're both awful for the exact same reasons

Terrible trolling. Awakening is amazing, Fates is shit.
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DoomSwell posted...

Fates ruined Pair Up (<My favorite feature)

Pairup was braindead in Awakening, it was the best option pretty much all the time (especially since multiple map objectives weren't really a thing lol). Fates made it an actual choice with tradeoffs AND gave you some control over dual guards so you could actually factor them into your strategy. Win for Fates.

Kids

It was like... the same exact system, only Fates's excuse for them existing was waaay stupider. So this really falls under your "plot" complaint,

Weapon Durability.

Removing durability was dumb, yeah.

Debuffs, Personal Skills, and Dragon Veins are all stupid AF.

Personal skills give each character some personality and uniqueness. In both games, you can slap on the five best skills and call it a day, but in Fates, different units will perform differently with those skills because of the personal skill. How is that dumb?

Dragon veins give maps additional objectives and multiple strategies to approach. Kind of dumb from a plot perspective, but are serving their purpose tactically. Of course, Fates gave WAAAY too many characters that could activate them and made them all the best units so they were accessible by most of your guys. Oh well.

Debuffs are preference. I like them but I can see why other people wouldn't.

The plot was far worse

Fates' plot was way crappier than Awakening's, but Awakening's still sucked.

the avatar classes were far worse

Do you mean you didn't like being limited to fewer classes, or that tactician>grandmaster is cooler than whatever the hell Corrin is called (I can't even remember it lol)?
PS: Avatar characters are a mistake.

the maps were far worse

Bullshit. Awakening's maps were 90% "open field while all enemies rush you down". The maps were the worst part of the game. Birthright's maps are the same tbh and Revelation's gimmicky crap is arguably worse, but Conquest's maps are creative and shit down the throat of Awakening's open field slaughterfests.

So one route is the same, one route is worse, and one route is better. I'd call that a wash.

the characters are only likable for sex appeal.

Are we talking about Awakening or Fates? I can't tell because neither have a likable cast of characters. And neither cast has any sex appeal either...

The differences aren't enough to make one appreciably better than the other.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

Paper Mario is really the only big one that comes to mind

Like when they decided to make Paper Mario instead of another Super Mario RPG?

They probably mean the paper mario into the sticker star change, or maybe the paper mario > super paper mario (though i liked that one)
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Pokemon because it's still portable only LOL

8-bit_Biceps posted...

Pokemon because it's still portable only LOL

it will always be portable. the switch is portable

8-bit_Biceps posted...

Pokemon because it's still portable only LOL

I don't think that fits. TC said "by adding changes no one wanted" but keeping Pokemon as a portable series isn't a change.

DoctorVader posted...

DoomSwell posted...

Get off the Great Plateau.

I've played 170 hours fam. That's like 40% of my entire gaming lifetime total.

I've gone into detail about why it's shitty in other topics. Let's not go there.

man it's not a big deal. get over it. before I even killed one DB I was getting GOOD weapons left and right before I could ever dream of running out. in fact I have NEVER run out.

not to mention how easy it is to get the MS.

you must just enjoy complaining.
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anyway, F-Zero: by making it no longer exist.
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juicebox4 posted...

man it's not a big deal. get over it. before I even killed one DB I was getting GOOD weapons left and right before I could ever dream of running out. in fact I have NEVER run out.

You say that as if getting weapons constandly makes the weapons durability less of an issue. It doesn't, it makes it more of an issue. If they are going to make weapon durability a thing, they need to make weapons scarce, or all they are doing is making people constantly equip new weapons. Early on BoTW does a decent job with weapon scarcity, but once you play a few hours into it, weapon durability just because a case of poor gameplay.

JE19426 posted...

juicebox4 posted...

man it's not a big deal. get over it. before I even killed one DB I was getting GOOD weapons left and right before I could ever dream of running out. in fact I have NEVER run out.

You say that as if getting weapons constandly makes the weapons durability less of an issue. It doesn't, it makes it more of an issue. If they are going to make weapon durability a thing, they need to make weapons scarce, or all they are doing is making people constantly equip new weapons. Early on BoTW does a decent job with weapon scarcity, but once you play a few hours into it, weapon durability just because a case of poor gameplay.

you get a slew of weapons and there's a seamless quick change button. it doesn't interrupt gameplay for more than a second and it never becomes an issue because you never run out.

also, must I fucking reiterate? THE MASTER SWORD.
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juicebox4 posted...

you get a slew of weapons and there's a seamless quick change button. it doesn't interrupt gameplay for more than a second and it never becomes an issue because you never run out.

As I already pointed out, all of that (except the quick change), makes it worse, not better.

JE19426 posted...

juicebox4 posted...

you get a slew of weapons and there's a seamless quick change button. it doesn't interrupt gameplay for more than a second and it never becomes an issue because you never run out.

As I already pointed out, all of that (except the quick change), makes it worse, not better.

yeah okay, you're a minority, enjoy bitching about things for the sake of bitching, I'm not gonna waste my time with you.
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Breath of the Wild's durability is not meant to be a resource management thing, but rather a factor that keeps you wildly changing up weapon types without resorting to restrictively strict weakness systems

now the real question is whether such a factor is really nessecary

Bass_X0 posted...

DoctorVader posted...

DoomSwell posted...

Get off the Great Plateau.

I've played 170 hours fam. That's like 40% of my entire gaming lifetime total.

That is very very very little.

My point was that it was a huge portion of my overall gaming.

juicebox4 posted...

man it's not a big deal. get over it. before I even killed one DB I was getting GOOD weapons left and right before I could ever dream of running out. in fact I have NEVER run out.

not to mention how easy it is to get the MS.

you must just enjoy complaining.

Oh shut the fuck up. It was big issue for me and tons of others. If you liked it, that's great. Learn to understand why others didn't.
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