Current Events > Teachers in Oklahoma and Kentucky both walking out today

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Antifar 04/02/18 1:26:40 PM #1:	https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-kentucky-teachers-higher-pay-school-funding-walkouts/ Hundreds of schools were closed Monday morning in Oklahoma and Kentucky while thousands of teachers rallied at their state capitols, CBS News correspondent Omar Villafranca reports. They're demanding higher pay and increased school funding. The scheduled strikes follow a growing trend of teacher walkouts across the country. Up to 30,000 people were expected to attend Monday's walkout. In Oklahoma City, legislators approved a raise that teachers say is too small. Art teacher Laurissa Kovacs says her kids aren't even getting the basics at Puterbaugh Middle School. "The chairs are in awful condition," Kovacs told Villafranca. "They're broken and they literally hurt the kids to sit down. If you look through the stacks, you can just see how many of the broken areas and cracks that will pinch you and jagged tops." Kovacs says she's had to bring in folding chairs from home to give her students a proper place to sit. She can't take the frustration any longer. "As many of us as possible, we're gonna go to the Capitol and we will rally," she said. "And several of us are going to stay at the Capitol as long as it takes." On Monday, CBS affiliate KOTV reported that Oklahoma public schools had already been cancelled for Tuesday. Oklahoma teachers, who are among the nation's lowest paid, have been threatening for weeks to walk out on Monday. Demands made by the state's largest teacher's union include increasing school funding by $200 million over three years and raising teachers' wages by $10,000. Legislation signed by Gov. Mary Fallin last week, which increases teacher pay by an average of about $6,100, or 15 to 18 percent, wasn't enough to avert a walkout. The measure increased taxes on cigarettes, fuel and oil, and gas production to provide the raises. Oklahoma isn't the only state struggling with teacher pay. In West Virginia, it took nine days before a teacher's strike there forced the governor to award a 5 percent pay hike. Teachers in Arizona are now considering a strike over their demands for a 20 percent salary increase. And in Kentucky, educators are fighting legislation that they say would disrupt their pension plans. Meanwhile, thousands of teachers gathered Monday in Frankfort to put the political heat on Kentucky lawmakers. Teachers and other school employees filled the streets outside the Kentucky Education Association office. They held signs and prepared to raise their voices as lawmakers returned to the Capitol to possibly vote on a new two-year state budget. The group plans to march to the Capitol. Stephanie Winkler is president of the Kentucky Education Association, which is the largest teacher's union in the state. Video of the OKC rally http://www.koco.com/article/woman-goes-to-doctor-with-food-poisoning-and-learns-she-has-colon-cancer/19655550 --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:898927854] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-kentucky-teachers-higher-pay-school-funding-walkouts/ <quote>Hundreds of schools were closed Monday morning in Oklahoma and Kentucky while thousands of teachers rallied at their state capitols, CBS News correspondent Omar Villafranca reports. They're demanding higher pay and increased school funding. The scheduled strikes follow a growing trend of teacher walkouts across the country. Up to 30,000 people were expected to attend Monday's walkout. In Oklahoma City, legislators approved a raise that teachers say is too small. Art teacher Laurissa Kovacs says her kids aren't even getting the basics at Puterbaugh Middle School. "The chairs are in awful condition," Kovacs told Villafranca. "They're broken and they literally hurt the kids to sit down. If you look through the stacks, you can just see how many of the broken areas and cracks that will pinch you and jagged tops." Kovacs says she's had to bring in folding chairs from home to give her students a proper place to sit. She can't take the frustration any longer. "As many of us as possible, we're gonna go to the Capitol and we will rally," she said. "And several of us are going to stay at the Capitol as long as it takes." On Monday, CBS affiliate KOTV reported that Oklahoma public schools had already been cancelled for Tuesday. Oklahoma teachers, who are among the nation's lowest paid, have been threatening for weeks to walk out on Monday. Demands made by the state's largest teacher's union include increasing school funding by $200 million over three years and raising teachers' wages by $10,000. Legislation signed by Gov. Mary Fallin last week, which increases teacher pay by an average of about $6,100, or 15 to 18 percent, wasn't enough to avert a walkout. The measure increased taxes on cigarettes, fuel and oil, and gas production to provide the raises. Oklahoma isn't the only state struggling with teacher pay. In West Virginia, it took nine days before a teacher's strike there forced the governor to award a 5 percent pay hike. Teachers in Arizona are now considering a strike over their demands for a 20 percent salary increase. And in Kentucky, educators are fighting legislation that they say would disrupt their pension plans. Meanwhile, thousands of teachers gathered Monday in Frankfort to put the political heat on Kentucky lawmakers. Teachers and other school employees filled the streets outside the Kentucky Education Association office. They held signs and prepared to raise their voices as lawmakers returned to the Capitol to possibly vote on a new two-year state budget. The group plans to march to the Capitol. Stephanie Winkler is president of the Kentucky Education Association, which is the largest teacher's union in the state. </quote> Video of the OKC rally http://www.koco.com/article/woman-goes-to-doctor-with-food-poisoning-and-learns-she-has-colon-cancer/19655550</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
John_Galt 04/02/18 1:32:12 PM #2:	We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on? --- Who is John Galt? <cite>John_Galt posted [p:898928099] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 04/02/18 1:34:45 PM #3:	John_Galt posted... We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on? We pay administrators like kings but teachers like paupers. --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:898928238] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>John_Galt posted...</cite> <quote>We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on?</quote> We pay administrators like kings but teachers like paupers.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muffinz0rz 04/02/18 1:36:15 PM #4:	What resulted from the Virginia strike? I don't remember hearing --- Not removing this until Pat Benatar is in Super Smash Bros. (Started 8/31/2010) 2018 NFLB Summersim (0-2): https://i.imgur.com/7cjNtgQ.png <cite>Muffinz0rz posted [p:898928298] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>What resulted from the Virginia strike? I don't remember hearing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 04/02/18 1:36:48 PM #5:	John_Galt posted... We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on? Not all spending is equal; the US spends more in absolute dollars, but less of our spending is public: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/ And it's not as though all spending on education is public, the OECD report found. Public spending accounts for just 70 cents of every education dollar in the United States. Parents picked up another 25 cents and private sources paid for the remainder in 2010. A decade earlier, the public's share of education spending was 72 cents on every dollar. The average OECD nation spent 84 cents of every education dollar, down from 88 cents a decade earlier. For post-high school programs, the United States is far outspent in public dollars. U.S. taxpayers picked up 36 cents of every dollar spent on college and vocational training programs. Families and private sources picked up the balance. In other OECD nations, it was roughly reversed: The public picked up 68 cents of every dollar in advanced training and private sources picked up the other 32 cents. "When people talk about other countries out-educating the United States, it needs to be remembered that those other nations are out-investing us in education as well," said Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, a labor union. You end up with this weird patchwork of well-funded private schools and some decent suburban districts and just bare-bones stuff in cities and rural areas. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:898928330] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>John_Galt posted...</cite> <quote>We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on?</quote> Not all spending is equal; the US spends more in absolute dollars, but less of our spending is public: <quote>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/ And it's not as though all spending on education is public, the OECD report found. Public spending accounts for just 70 cents of every education dollar in the United States. Parents picked up another 25 cents and private sources paid for the remainder in 2010. A decade earlier, the public's share of education spending was 72 cents on every dollar. The average OECD nation spent 84 cents of every education dollar, down from 88 cents a decade earlier. For post-high school programs, the United States is far outspent in public dollars. U.S. taxpayers picked up 36 cents of every dollar spent on college and vocational training programs. Families and private sources picked up the balance. In other OECD nations, it was roughly reversed: The public picked up 68 cents of every dollar in advanced training and private sources picked up the other 32 cents. "When people talk about other countries out-educating the United States, it needs to be remembered that those other nations are out-investing us in education as well," said Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, a labor union.</quote> You end up with this weird patchwork of well-funded private schools and some decent suburban districts and just bare-bones stuff in cities and rural areas.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MFBKBass5 04/02/18 1:37:19 PM #6:	Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more. --- !!!!!!!!! http://i.imgur.com/DzJSPWA.jpg <cite>MFBKBass5 posted [p:898928357] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 04/02/18 1:38:13 PM #7:	Muffinz0rz posted... What resulted from the Virginia strike? I don't remember hearing The teachers won, for the most part http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-teacher-funding-20180306-story.html Two months ago, West Virginia state Sen. Richard Ojeda warned his fellow lawmakers of the danger of denying pleas from teachers for a pay raise. "We're not listening to our teachers," Ojeda, a Democrat, said during a Senate session on Jan. 17. "You're sitting on a powder keg." He was right. A strike by teachers gripped every school district in the state for nine days until the Legislature passed a 5% raise Tuesday and Republican Gov. Jim Justice signed it into law. The raise will apply to all state public employees. The drama in West Virginia has emboldened teachers and public-employee unions across the U.S. ... In West Virginia, rank-and-file union members rejected a deal their own union leaders had made with legislators and refused to back down until a raise had been signed into law. It was the first teachers' strike in the state since 1990. Chants of "Back to school!" broke out in the halls of the Capitol after lawmakers approved the pay increase. Teachers also sang West Virginia folk anthem "Take Me Home, Country Roads," by John Denver: "Country roads, take me home, to the place where I belong: West Virginia." "What a good day," the governor said at a news conference, expressing eagerness to get students back to school as teachers cheered. "Our children have suffered enough." "Yes, they have," a woman called out from the crowd. Christine Campbell, president of the American Federation of Teachers' West Virginia branch, said in a statement: "This is a huge victory and symbol of respect for every teacher and school support staff member in the state of West Virginia." "The strike and its strong outcome should be seen as a shot across the bow to every lawmaker who may underestimate the support teachers have, the hard job they do and their willingness to stand up for what they deserve as they educate the next generation," she said. But the victory only concludes what is likely to be the first round in a larger war. The state still awaits an uneasy discussion over how to control soaring healthcare costs that were at the core of many teachers' decisions to go on strike in the first place. As healthcare costs have continued to rise, employees had been asked to pay higher premiums, which teachers said would effectively cut their pay each year. The premiums cover 20% of the cost of insurance provided to state employees by the Public Employees Insurance Agency. After teachers started their strike, the governor said the state would freeze premiums while a task force studied how to control the cost of insurance. Justice said Tuesday that appointments to the task force would be completed by Thursday. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:898928408] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Muffinz0rz posted...</cite> <quote>What resulted from the Virginia strike? I don't remember hearing</quote> The teachers won, for the most part http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-teacher-funding-20180306-story.html <quote>Two months ago, West Virginia state Sen. Richard Ojeda warned his fellow lawmakers of the danger of denying pleas from teachers for a pay raise. "We're not listening to our teachers," Ojeda, a Democrat, said during a Senate session on Jan. 17. "You're sitting on a powder keg." He was right. A strike by teachers gripped every school district in the state for nine days until the Legislature passed a 5% raise Tuesday and Republican Gov. Jim Justice signed it into law. The raise will apply to all state public employees. The drama in West Virginia has emboldened teachers and public-employee unions across the U.S. ... In West Virginia, rank-and-file union members rejected a deal their own union leaders had made with legislators and refused to back down until a raise had been signed into law. It was the first teachers' strike in the state since 1990. Chants of "Back to school!" broke out in the halls of the Capitol after lawmakers approved the pay increase. Teachers also sang West Virginia folk anthem "Take Me Home, Country Roads," by John Denver: "Country roads, take me home, to the place where I belong: West Virginia." "What a good day," the governor said at a news conference, expressing eagerness to get students back to school as teachers cheered. "Our children have suffered enough." "Yes, they have," a woman called out from the crowd. Christine Campbell, president of the American Federation of Teachers' West Virginia branch, said in a statement: "This is a huge victory and symbol of respect for every teacher and school support staff member in the state of West Virginia." "The strike and its strong outcome should be seen as a shot across the bow to every lawmaker who may underestimate the support teachers have, the hard job they do and their willingness to stand up for what they deserve as they educate the next generation," she said. But the victory only concludes what is likely to be the first round in a larger war. The state still awaits an uneasy discussion over how to control soaring healthcare costs that were at the core of many teachers' decisions to go on strike in the first place. As healthcare costs have continued to rise, employees had been asked to pay higher premiums, which teachers said would effectively cut their pay each year. The premiums cover 20% of the cost of insurance provided to state employees by the Public Employees Insurance Agency. After teachers started their strike, the governor said the state would freeze premiums while a task force studied how to control the cost of insurance. Justice said Tuesday that appointments to the task force would be completed by Thursday.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
spudger 04/02/18 1:38:33 PM #8:	A_Good_Boy posted... John_Galt posted... We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on? We pay administrators like kings but teachers like paupers. --- -Only dead fish swim with the current http://error1355.com/ce/spudger.html <cite>spudger posted [p:898928434] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>John_Galt posted...</cite> <quote>We spend more per pupil then most countries and still have these funding shortages and underpaid teachers? What's going on?</quote> We pay administrators like kings but teachers like paupers.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 04/02/18 1:39:44 PM #9:	John_Galt posted... What's going on? Here's a hint: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-education-20180108-story.html <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:898928494] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>John_Galt posted...</cite> <quote>What's going on?</quote> Here's a hint: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-education-20180108-story.html</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CasualGuy 04/02/18 1:40:10 PM #10:	And turns out 50-70 hour work weeks making 30k starting isn't much of an incentive for new teachers to get into the profession. so you got burnt out veteran teachers sick of dealing with red tape and no funding and very few people going in (even less new teachers staying in) the profession. Pay them more for fucks sake. --- http://i.imgur.com/MoE9O68.gif <cite>CasualGuy posted [p:898928514] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>And turns out 50-70 hour work weeks making 30k starting isn't much of an incentive for new teachers to get into the profession. so you got burnt out veteran teachers sick of dealing with red tape and no funding and very few people going in (even less new teachers staying in) the profession. Pay them more for fucks sake.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 04/02/18 1:46:57 PM #11:	CasualGuy posted... Pay them more for fucks sake. https://www.donorschoose.org/ <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:898928861] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>CasualGuy posted...</cite> <quote>Pay them more for fucks sake.</quote> https://www.donorschoose.org/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
creativerealms 04/02/18 1:47:35 PM #12:	And you know what is not the answer? Taking some of that money and giving it to charter and private schools. Yet that is what some people in charge want to do. --- No sig. <cite>creativerealms posted [p:898928894] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>And you know what is not the answer? Taking some of that money and giving it to charter and private schools. Yet that is what some people in charge want to do.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 04/02/18 1:48:39 PM #13:	creativerealms posted... And you know what is not the answer? Taking some of that money and giving it to charter and private schools. Yet that is what some people in charge want to do. A 'nuclear' option would be to ban private schools entirely. Of course, that'll never happen, given general elitism and various religions. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:898928940] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>creativerealms posted...</cite> <quote>And you know what is not the answer? Taking some of that money and giving it to charter and private schools. Yet that is what some people in charge want to do.</quote> A 'nuclear' option would be to ban private schools entirely. Of course, that'll never happen, given general elitism and various religions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
r4X0r 04/02/18 1:52:50 PM #14:	Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs. --- I faced it all and I stood tall- And did it my way. <cite>r4X0r posted [p:898929167] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 04/02/18 1:55:11 PM #15:	r4X0r posted... Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs. I know you're really trying to push your **ty "part time jobs" argument across these topics, but part time as a designation is measured on the weekly hour basis. "Seasonal" is probably a more fitting word for what you are trying to convey. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:898929289] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs.</quote> I know you're really trying to push your **ty "part time jobs" argument across these topics, but part time as a designation is measured on the weekly hour basis. "Seasonal" is probably a more fitting word for what you are trying to convey.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 04/02/18 1:55:40 PM #16:	r4X0r posted... Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs. I'm pretty sure part/full time is based on hours worked per year, not days worked per year. --- http://i.imgur.com/ByKGlJb.gif http://i.imgur.com/nZdaA8D.gif http://i.imgur.com/VBLBILg.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:898929307] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs.</quote> I'm pretty sure part/full time is based on hours worked per year, not days worked per year.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
r4X0r 04/02/18 2:01:43 PM #17:	You can quibble about semantics all you want, but teachers do not get the salary of other professions because they don't work as much as other professions. You'll find all sorts of sob pieces saying that teachers have to get to work at 7 AM and don't get to leave until 8 PM, but you'll find just as many teachers who schedule their resource period last and are out the door at quarter to one. If primary education were the underpaid, underthanked job so many claim it is, we wouldn't have a massive oversupply of primary education teachers. It's good money for... let's try to satisfy everyone, for a less than full time job and with benefits for life, it's a great gig for somebody who wants an indoor job that only requires a 4 year degree. Between having ten months in the summer off for side work, health, and pension, they have very little to legitimately complain about. --- I faced it all and I stood tall- And did it my way. <cite>r4X0r posted [p:898929608] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>You can quibble about semantics all you want, but teachers do not get the salary of other professions because they don't work as much as other professions. You'll find all sorts of sob pieces saying that teachers have to get to work at 7 AM and don't get to leave until 8 PM, but you'll find just as many teachers who schedule their resource period last and are out the door at quarter to one. If primary education were the underpaid, underthanked job so many claim it is, we wouldn't have a massive oversupply of primary education teachers. It's good money for... let's try to satisfy everyone, for a less than full time job and with benefits for life, it's a great gig for somebody who wants an indoor job that only requires a 4 year degree. Between having ten months in the summer off for side work, health, and pension, they have very little to legitimately complain about.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 04/02/18 2:02:49 PM #18:	r4X0r posted... You can quibble about semantics all you want It isn't semantics. Full/part time is based on hours worked per year, not days worked per year. You're just incorrect in that matter. --- http://i.imgur.com/ByKGlJb.gif http://i.imgur.com/nZdaA8D.gif http://i.imgur.com/VBLBILg.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:898929652] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>You can quibble about semantics all you want</quote> It isn't semantics. Full/part time is based on hours worked per year, not days worked per year. You're just incorrect in that matter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
r4X0r 04/02/18 2:05:12 PM #19:	CableZL posted... r4X0r posted... You can quibble about semantics all you want It isn't semantics. Full/part time is based on hours worked per year, not days worked per year. You're just incorrect in that matter. A full time employee works 250 days per year at 8 hours which is very neatly 2,000 hours. For a 180 day per year teacher to achieve the same 2,000 hours, they'd have to be working eleven hour days, 180 days per year. That doesn't happen, and you're just incorrect in the matter. Teacher compensation is not an issue in this country. They only complain because they have a big audience that listens to them. --- I faced it all and I stood tall- And did it my way. <cite>r4X0r posted [p:898929768] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>CableZL posted...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>You can quibble about semantics all you want</quote> It isn't semantics. Full/part time is based on hours worked per year, not days worked per year. You're just incorrect in that matter.</quote> A full time employee works 250 days per year at 8 hours which is very neatly 2,000 hours. For a 180 day per year teacher to achieve the same 2,000 hours, they'd have to be working eleven hour days, 180 days per year. That doesn't happen, and you're just incorrect in the matter. Teacher compensation is not an issue in this country. They only complain because they have a big audience that listens to them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Taharqa_ 04/02/18 2:05:35 PM #20:	r4X0r posted... Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs. So much wrong in one post. --- "If you want to move fast, practice slowly...if you want to move like lightning, practice in stillness." <cite>Taharqa_ posted [p:898929782] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs.</quote> So much wrong in one post.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CasualGuy 04/02/18 2:06:43 PM #21:	r4X0r posted... A full time employee works 250 days per year this has never been the case --- http://i.imgur.com/MoE9O68.gif <cite>CasualGuy posted [p:898929846] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>A full time employee works 250 days per year</quote> this has never been the case</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muffinz0rz 04/02/18 2:07:12 PM #22:	Taharqa_ posted... r4X0r posted... Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs. So much wrong in one post. Lol where --- Not removing this until Pat Benatar is in Super Smash Bros. (Started 8/31/2010) 2018 NFLB Summersim (0-2): https://i.imgur.com/7cjNtgQ.png <cite>Muffinz0rz posted [p:898929868] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Taharqa_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>Teachers work 180-90 days per year. A full time job is 240-250 days per year. Despite only working part time, teachers receive full time salaries and benefits for life. Teachers are well compensated. Moving on. Teachers are public employees. Paying them more requires more tax money which requires higher taxes. How exactly do you sell that to all the families that DON'T have a teacher in the household? "Sorry, but your family has to have less because some part time, indoor public employees with the whole summer off think they aren't getting paid enough." If you want to take food off people's tables to hand to part time public employees, you'd better have a damn good sell. If teachers don't think they make enough money, maybe they should take those ten weeks they have off every summer and get part time jobs.</quote> So much wrong in one post.</quote> Lol where</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 04/02/18 2:07:20 PM #23:	r4X0r posted... That doesn't happen their own reporting says it happens (~10.5hr/day) BLS time diaries don't, but those may not be accurately representative, and would also call into question what an 8h/day salaried worker is doing with his time r4X0r posted... Teacher compensation is not an issue in this country. it is if they say it is and this country cannot handle them refusing to work that's more or less how supply and demand works --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:898929873] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>That doesn't happen</quote> their own reporting says it happens (~10.5hr/day) BLS time diaries don't, but those may not be accurately representative, and would also call into question what an 8h/day salaried worker is doing with his time <cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>Teacher compensation is not an issue in this country. </quote> it is if they say it is and this country cannot handle them refusing to work that's more or less how supply and demand works</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 04/02/18 2:08:40 PM #24:	MFBKBass5 posted... Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more. It's always been a partisan issue because the standard republican reply to teachers asking for more is "okay, let's eliminate tenure and add a performance-based pay increase system" at which point the teachers unions which are nearly 100% democrat and actively campaign for democrat candidates threaten to strike. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898929944] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>MFBKBass5 posted...</cite> <quote>Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more.</quote> It's always been a partisan issue because the standard republican reply to teachers asking for more is "okay, let's eliminate tenure and add a performance-based pay increase system" at which point the teachers unions which are nearly 100% democrat and actively campaign for democrat candidates threaten to strike.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZMythos 04/02/18 2:08:47 PM #25:	Holy fuck is this guy real? --- Rainbow Dashing: "it's just star wars" AutumnEspirit: kissu <cite>ZMythos posted [p:898929949] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>Holy fuck is this guy real?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
r4X0r 04/02/18 2:09:44 PM #26:	CasualGuy posted... r4X0r posted... A full time employee works 250 days per year this has never been the case Five days per week, fifty two weeks per year minus holidays and vacation, do you need a calculator? --- I faced it all and I stood tall- And did it my way. <cite>r4X0r posted [p:898930011] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>CasualGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>A full time employee works 250 days per year</quote> this has never been the case</quote> Five days per week, fifty two weeks per year minus holidays and vacation, do you need a calculator?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 04/02/18 2:10:23 PM #27:	r4X0r posted... A full time employee works 250 days per year at 8 hours which is very neatly 2,000 hours. Again, it's based on hours worked, not days worked. https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees Definition of Full-Time Employee For purposes of the employer shared responsibility provisions, a full-time employee is, for a calendar month, an employee employed on average at least 30 hours of service per week, or 130 hours of service per month. --- http://i.imgur.com/ByKGlJb.gif http://i.imgur.com/nZdaA8D.gif http://i.imgur.com/VBLBILg.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:898930047] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>A full time employee works 250 days per year at 8 hours which is very neatly 2,000 hours. </quote> Again, it's based on hours worked, not days worked. https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees Definition of Full-Time Employee For purposes of the employer shared responsibility provisions, a full-time employee is, for a calendar month, an employee employed on average at least 30 hours of service per week, or 130 hours of service per month. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CasualGuy 04/02/18 2:11:02 PM #28:	r4X0r posted... CasualGuy posted... r4X0r posted... A full time employee works 250 days per year this has never been the case Five days per week, fifty two weeks per year minus holidays and vacation, do you need a calculator? # of days don't matter. Never have 40hr/week is full-time. --- http://i.imgur.com/MoE9O68.gif <cite>CasualGuy posted [p:898930079] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote><cite>CasualGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>A full time employee works 250 days per year</quote> this has never been the case</quote> Five days per week, fifty two weeks per year minus holidays and vacation, do you need a calculator?</quote> # of days don't matter. Never have 40hr/week is full-time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
r4X0r 04/02/18 2:11:10 PM #29:	Darkman124 posted... it is if they say it is and this country cannot handle them refusing to work that's more or less how supply and demand works We can easily afford them refusing to work. Fire them and hire people who want to. Oh wait, we can't, because tenure and teacher's unions, which absolutely violate the law of supply and demand. Woops, your point just went out the window, sorry not sorry. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/18/oversupply-elementary-education/1917569/ K-5 teacher overload: Too many trained, not enough jobs --- I faced it all and I stood tall- And did it my way. <cite>r4X0r posted [p:898930087] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>it is if they say it is and this country cannot handle them refusing to work that's more or less how supply and demand works</quote> We can easily afford them refusing to work. Fire them and hire people who want to. Oh wait, we can't, because tenure and teacher's unions, which absolutely violate the law of supply and demand. Woops, your point just went out the window, sorry not sorry. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/18/oversupply-elementary-education/1917569/ K-5 teacher overload: Too many trained, not enough jobs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dat_Cracka_Jax 04/02/18 2:12:16 PM #30:	I hate when people try to demonize the teachers striking by saying they don't care about the kids. It's the districts that don't give a fuck about anything other than their bullshit numbers and paying administrators more --- http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8131/flame201010170949481638.jpg http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5517/cateyes.gif Rams: 7-9 <cite>Dat_Cracka_Jax posted [p:898930134] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>I hate when people try to demonize the teachers striking by saying they don't care about the kids. It's the districts that don't give a fuck about anything other than their bullshit numbers and paying administrators more</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 04/02/18 2:12:48 PM #31:	r4X0r posted... Oh wait, we can't, because tenure and teacher's unions, which absolutely violate the law of supply and demand. they do not: those were the terms of hiring them in the first place, and are part of that contract. they negotiated this in their contracts, and now the state suffers for it so since your proposed plan of 'fire them and hire people who want to' will not work come up with another otherwise, the state cannot afford them refusing to work which is the point --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:898930165] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>Oh wait, we can't, because tenure and teacher's unions, which absolutely violate the law of supply and demand.</quote> they do not: those were the terms of hiring them in the first place, and are part of that contract. they negotiated this in their contracts, and now the state suffers for it so since your proposed plan of 'fire them and hire people who want to' will not work come up with another otherwise, the state cannot afford them refusing to work which is the point</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 04/02/18 2:12:51 PM #32:	r4X0r posted... K-5 teacher overload: Too many trained, not enough jobs What about data on the rest of the grade levels teachers teach? --- http://i.imgur.com/ByKGlJb.gif http://i.imgur.com/nZdaA8D.gif http://i.imgur.com/VBLBILg.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:898930168] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>K-5 teacher overload: Too many trained, not enough jobs </quote> What about data on the rest of the grade levels teachers teach?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 04/02/18 2:13:41 PM #33:	CableZL posted... What about data on the rest of the grades teachers teach? i'd be curious to see if there was an oversupply of higher level educators as well because that seems far less likely --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:898930206] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>CableZL posted...</cite> <quote>What about data on the rest of the grades teachers teach? </quote> i'd be curious to see if there was an oversupply of higher level educators as well because that seems far less likely</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drowning__Fish_ 04/02/18 2:14:19 PM #34:	r4X0r posted... You can quibble about semantics all you want, but teachers do not get the salary of other professions because they don't work as much as other professions. You'll find all sorts of sob pieces saying that teachers have to get to work at 7 AM and don't get to leave until 8 PM, but you'll find just as many teachers who schedule their resource period last and are out the door at quarter to one. If primary education were the underpaid, underthanked job so many claim it is, we wouldn't have a massive oversupply of primary education teachers. It's good money for... let's try to satisfy everyone, for a less than full time job and with benefits for life, it's a great gig for somebody who wants an indoor job that only requires a 4 year degree. Between having ten months in the summer off for side work, health, and pension, they have very little to legitimately complain about. Hey friend. I don't know how all states do it, but I live in Oklahoma. Teachers get paid for the school year they work. They have the option to get paid year-round, but it is the same exact salary, just stretched out. They get full benefits (which includes a pretty great teacher's health insurance), but they pay thousands for it most of the time. It is almost not worth it. I've met teachers in Oklahoma City that work Uber before their work day just to afford bills. Sorry you went to a well-funded school and don't know the hardships the most important members of our society go through. fish out --- CE is typically a quarter alt right, quarter sjw, quarter troll, and quarter normal functioning members of society. http://i.imgur.com/WmNsY.jpg - HBKick18 <cite>Drowning__Fish_ posted [p:898930240] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>You can quibble about semantics all you want, but teachers do not get the salary of other professions because they don't work as much as other professions. You'll find all sorts of sob pieces saying that teachers have to get to work at 7 AM and don't get to leave until 8 PM, but you'll find just as many teachers who schedule their resource period last and are out the door at quarter to one. If primary education were the underpaid, underthanked job so many claim it is, we wouldn't have a massive oversupply of primary education teachers. It's good money for... let's try to satisfy everyone, for a less than full time job and with benefits for life, it's a great gig for somebody who wants an indoor job that only requires a 4 year degree. Between having ten months in the summer off for side work, health, and pension, they have very little to legitimately complain about.</quote> Hey friend. I don't know how all states do it, but I live in Oklahoma. Teachers get paid for the school year they work. They have the option to get paid year-round, but it is the same exact salary, just stretched out. They get full benefits (which includes a pretty great teacher's health insurance), but they pay thousands for it most of the time. It is almost not worth it. I've met teachers in Oklahoma City that work Uber before their work day just to afford bills. Sorry you went to a well-funded school and don't know the hardships the most important members of our society go through. fish out</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Darkman124 04/02/18 2:15:59 PM #36:	Captain_Qwark posted... Not sure about 2013, but right now there are teacher shortages all over the country. In fact, thousands of districts are so hard-pressed to find teachers, they're hiring people without degrees just to get an adult in the room and teach while they get their cert online/after school hours. interesting. i'd also be curious to see if trends from 2013 are even remotely applicable to 2018 --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:898930324] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Captain_Qwark posted...</cite> <quote> Not sure about 2013, but right now there are teacher shortages all over the country. In fact, thousands of districts are so hard-pressed to find teachers, they're hiring people without degrees just to get an adult in the room and teach while they get their cert online/after school hours. </quote> interesting. i'd also be curious to see if trends from 2013 are even remotely applicable to 2018</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 04/02/18 2:16:06 PM #37:	r4X0r posted... You can quibble about semantics all you want You're just filling your posts with weasel words. 1. Why do you prefer the term part-time to seasonal? Is it because it invokes the idea of someone who doesn't work as hard? 2. Most jobs don't require working outdoors. It's weird you keep mentioning that they work "indoors" like 80% of people don't work service jobs which are indoors. 3. You say "only require a 4 year degree", but 66% of jobs in the USA don't require anything higher than an associates degree. In addition, teachers have to get a certification which is separate from their diploma. 4. You're trying to make out teachers as being unproductive ("They have prep time!") but you're vastly overestimating the productivity of most office workers. Teachers are in front of a class 5+ hours a day, which is much more time "working" than all of the slack offs on CE who sit at their work and surf the internet. That's ignoring time spent outside of the classroom and prep during the school day. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:898930327] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>You can quibble about semantics all you want</quote> You're just filling your posts with weasel words. 1. Why do you prefer the term part-time to seasonal? Is it because it invokes the idea of someone who doesn't work as hard? 2. Most jobs don't require working outdoors. It's weird you keep mentioning that they work "indoors" like 80% of people don't work service jobs which are indoors. 3. You say "only require a 4 year degree", but 66% of jobs in the USA don't require anything higher than an associates degree. In addition, teachers have to get a certification which is separate from their diploma. 4. You're trying to make out teachers as being unproductive ("They have prep time!") but you're vastly overestimating the productivity of most office workers. Teachers are in front of a class 5+ hours a day, which is much more time "working" than all of the slack offs on CE who sit at their work and surf the internet. That's ignoring time spent outside of the classroom and prep during the school day.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dat_Cracka_Jax 04/02/18 2:18:07 PM #38:	s0nicfan posted... MFBKBass5 posted... Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more. It's always been a partisan issue because the standard republican reply to teachers asking for more is "okay, let's eliminate tenure and add a performance-based pay increase system" at which point the teachers unions which are nearly 100% democrat and actively campaign for democrat candidates threaten to strike. Maybe it's more that an incentive based pay structure is just about one of the worst ideas for that career. --- http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8131/flame201010170949481638.jpg http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5517/cateyes.gif Rams: 7-9 <cite>Dat_Cracka_Jax posted [p:898930429] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>MFBKBass5 posted...</cite> <quote>Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more.</quote> It's always been a partisan issue because the standard republican reply to teachers asking for more is "okay, let's eliminate tenure and add a performance-based pay increase system" at which point the teachers unions which are nearly 100% democrat and actively campaign for democrat candidates threaten to strike.</quote> Maybe it's more that an incentive based pay structure is just about one of the worst ideas for that career.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kombucha 04/02/18 2:19:24 PM #39:	guys r4x0r unironically posts infowars links stop wasting your time. --- http://www.last.fm/user/walkingishonest <cite>Kombucha posted [p:898930480] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>guys r4x0r unironically posts infowars links stop wasting your time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 04/02/18 2:20:45 PM #40:	Dat_Cracka_Jax posted... s0nicfan posted... MFBKBass5 posted... Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more. It's always been a partisan issue because the standard republican reply to teachers asking for more is "okay, let's eliminate tenure and add a performance-based pay increase system" at which point the teachers unions which are nearly 100% democrat and actively campaign for democrat candidates threaten to strike. Maybe it's more that an incentive based pay structure is just about one of the worst ideas for that career. Not really. I completely agree that most criteria proposed for teachers is garbage, especially ones that look at things like grade averages because they don't account for things beyond a teacher's control and incentivize cheating, but the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense as well. Any job can be evaluated, and any evaluation can and should be used to make sure your best are rewarded and your worst are either corrected or removed. Otherwise all you do is invite mediocrity. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898930553] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>MFBKBass5 posted...</cite> <quote>Please lets not make this a partisan issue. Teachers deserve more.</quote> It's always been a partisan issue because the standard republican reply to teachers asking for more is "okay, let's eliminate tenure and add a performance-based pay increase system" at which point the teachers unions which are nearly 100% democrat and actively campaign for democrat candidates threaten to strike.</quote> Maybe it's more that an incentive based pay structure is just about one of the worst ideas for that career.</quote> Not really. I completely agree that most criteria proposed for teachers is garbage, especially ones that look at things like grade averages because they don't account for things beyond a teacher's control and incentivize cheating, but the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense as well. Any job can be evaluated, and any evaluation can and should be used to make sure your best are rewarded and your worst are either corrected or removed. Otherwise all you do is invite mediocrity.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
r4X0r 04/02/18 2:20:47 PM #41:	Anteaterking posted... Teachers are in front of a class 5+ hours a day, which is much more time "working" than all of the slack offs on CE who sit at their work and surf the internet. Haha best logic EVER. Teachers deserve more pay because they're more productive than the average CEman. Sure thing dude. Now go tell the private sector taxpayer they're going to have to tighten their belts and have less money for their families because teachers deserve higher salaries on those grounds. --- I faced it all and I stood tall- And did it my way. <cite>r4X0r posted [p:898930555] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote>Teachers are in front of a class 5+ hours a day, which is much more time "working" than all of the slack offs on CE who sit at their work and surf the internet. </quote> Haha best logic EVER. Teachers deserve more pay because they're more productive than the average CEman. Sure thing dude. Now go tell the private sector taxpayer they're going to have to tighten their belts and have less money for their families because teachers deserve higher salaries on those grounds.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#42	Post #42 was unavailable or deleted.
s0nicfan 04/02/18 2:24:05 PM #43:	Captain_Qwark posted... s0nicfan posted... Not really. I completely agree that most criteria proposed for teachers is garbage, especially ones that look at things like grade averages because they don't account for things beyond a teacher's control and incentivize cheating, but the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense as well. Any job can be evaluated, and any evaluation can and should be used to make sure your best are rewarded and your worst are either corrected or removed. Otherwise all you do is invite mediocrity. "performance-based" in education almost exclusively refers to standardized test scores. So if teachers ere payed based on those, every teacher who decided to work in a low-income / high-poverty school (which are the hardest teaching jobs) would be paid the least. Again, I agree that existing structures are bad. Again, the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898930746] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Captain_Qwark posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Not really. I completely agree that most criteria proposed for teachers is garbage, especially ones that look at things like grade averages because they don't account for things beyond a teacher's control and incentivize cheating, but the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense as well. Any job can be evaluated, and any evaluation can and should be used to make sure your best are rewarded and your worst are either corrected or removed. Otherwise all you do is invite mediocrity.</quote> "performance-based" in education almost exclusively refers to standardized test scores. So if teachers ere payed based on those, every teacher who decided to work in a low-income / high-poverty school (which are the hardest teaching jobs) would be paid the least.</quote> Again, I agree that existing structures are bad. Again, the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#44	Post #44 was unavailable or deleted.
r4X0r 04/02/18 2:26:17 PM #45:	Kombucha posted... guys r4x0r unironically posts infowars links stop wasting your time. I only used them because I couldn't find anything from Breitbart. It's an easy way to instantly trigger people who don't want actual discussion and just want to find ways to discredit anyone who upsets their worldview. It's good to know who those people are. --- I faced it all and I stood tall- And did it my way. <cite>r4X0r posted [p:898930870] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kombucha posted...</cite> <quote>guys r4x0r unironically posts infowars links stop wasting your time.</quote> I only used them because I couldn't find anything from Breitbart. It's an easy way to instantly trigger people who don't want actual discussion and just want to find ways to discredit anyone who upsets their worldview. It's good to know who those people are.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 04/02/18 2:26:44 PM #46:	Captain_Qwark posted... I didn't say that you can't measure how well a teacher does their job. I'm saying "performance based" refers to one particular thing (which is broken). it is definitely possible to fix it, though. i'd like to see teacher bonuses instituted as a thing based on student year-over-year test score variation. --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:898930899] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Captain_Qwark posted...</cite> <quote>I didn't say that you can't measure how well a teacher does their job. I'm saying "performance based" refers to one particular thing (which is broken). </quote> it is definitely possible to fix it, though. i'd like to see teacher bonuses instituted as a thing based on student year-over-year test score variation.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Intro2Logic 04/02/18 2:26:56 PM #47:	People who think that universal healthcare will lead to slavery for doctors also believe teachers shouldn't be able to strike or bargain for higher wages. --- Have you tried thinking rationally? <cite>Intro2Logic posted [p:898930911] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>People who think that universal healthcare will lead to slavery for doctors also believe teachers shouldn't be able to strike or bargain for higher wages.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 04/02/18 2:27:55 PM #48:	Captain_Qwark posted... s0nicfan posted... Captain_Qwark posted... s0nicfan posted... Not really. I completely agree that most criteria proposed for teachers is garbage, especially ones that look at things like grade averages because they don't account for things beyond a teacher's control and incentivize cheating, but the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense as well. Any job can be evaluated, and any evaluation can and should be used to make sure your best are rewarded and your worst are either corrected or removed. Otherwise all you do is invite mediocrity. "performance-based" in education almost exclusively refers to standardized test scores. So if teachers ere payed based on those, every teacher who decided to work in a low-income / high-poverty school (which are the hardest teaching jobs) would be paid the least. Again, I agree that existing structures are bad. Again, the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense. I didn't say that you can't measure how well a teacher does their job. I'm saying "performance based" refers to one particular thing (which is broken). So then we're in agreement? I don't get what you're arguing against here. I'm using performance in the generic HR sense, so just because it's a loaded term in education doesn't mean its the wrong word to use. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:898930971] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>Captain_Qwark posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Captain_Qwark posted...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>Not really. I completely agree that most criteria proposed for teachers is garbage, especially ones that look at things like grade averages because they don't account for things beyond a teacher's control and incentivize cheating, but the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense as well. Any job can be evaluated, and any evaluation can and should be used to make sure your best are rewarded and your worst are either corrected or removed. Otherwise all you do is invite mediocrity.</quote> "performance-based" in education almost exclusively refers to standardized test scores. So if teachers ere payed based on those, every teacher who decided to work in a low-income / high-poverty school (which are the hardest teaching jobs) would be paid the least.</quote> Again, I agree that existing structures are bad. Again, the notion that there's no way to objectively measure the performance of a teacher is nonsense.</quote> I didn't say that you can't measure how well a teacher does their job. I'm saying "performance based" refers to one particular thing (which is broken).</quote> So then we're in agreement? I don't get what you're arguing against here. I'm using performance in the generic HR sense, so just because it's a loaded term in education doesn't mean its the wrong word to use.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 04/02/18 2:28:45 PM #49:	r4X0r posted... Haha best logic EVER. Teachers deserve more pay because they're more productive than the average CEman. Sure thing dude. Now go tell the taxpayer they're going to have to tighten their belts and have less money for their families because teachers deserve higher salaries on those grounds. That's not my reason why I think they should be compensated more. I'm just pointing out that you're applying a standard to teachers that you aren't applying to most office jobs, including other public sector jobs, and using that as an attempted emotional crutch for your argument. The number of hours actually worked by teachers during the school week has been measured anywhere from 46-53 hours which spreads out to 38.18 to 44 hours over a 52 week year, if we pretend they get summer completely off. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:898931015] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote><cite>r4X0r posted...</cite> <quote>Haha best logic EVER. Teachers deserve more pay because they're more productive than the average CEman. Sure thing dude. Now go tell the taxpayer they're going to have to tighten their belts and have less money for their families because teachers deserve higher salaries on those grounds.</quote> That's not my reason why I think they should be compensated more. I'm just pointing out that you're applying a standard to teachers that you aren't applying to most office jobs, including other public sector jobs, and using that as an attempted emotional crutch for your argument. The number of hours actually worked by teachers during the school week has been measured anywhere from 46-53 hours which spreads out to 38.18 to 44 hours over a 52 week year, if we pretend they get summer completely off.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ludwig Von 2 04/02/18 2:29:22 PM #50:	Teachers should teach for passion of helping the future leaders of America. Not for money. What a bunch of fuckers walking out on their students for more money. --- My luck works best when things are... random. Mat Cauthon from The Dragon Reborn <cite>Ludwig Von 2 posted [p:898931051] in Teachers i... [t:76478036]...</cite> <quote>Teachers should teach for passion of helping the future leaders of America. Not for money. What a bunch of fuckers walking out on their students for more money.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Teachers in Oklahoma and Kentucky both walking out today (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Teachers in Oklahoma and Kentucky both walking out today