Current Events > I honestly don't understand supporting pre-pubescent transgenderism

(+) Yeah! (+)

"Chop off these dangly bits....why not?"

How the hell can you judge whether or not they want to have that part of their life unless you let them experience it?

Nobody is chopping off anything at that age. You don't have to understand it, it's not happening.
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The earliest sexual reassignment surgery was performed at 16, unless someone else has changed that recently.

HRT is not surgery; maybe you should educate yourself on the fundamentals of the topic at hand before shitposting.
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I heard of kids as young as 4 having it done.
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The faster you get on those meds the more girly you are when you are old enough for the surgery
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Cheater87 posted...

I heard of kids as young as 4 having it done.

Literally 16 is the youngest it's ever happened. Stop.
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At that age, the only thing being done is administration of puberty blockers. This is known to be safe and effective for gender transition.

Antifar posted...

Nobody is chopping off anything at that age. You don't have to understand it, it's not happening.

You are just giving them drugs to ensure they never go through puberty and then let them make the choice when they turn 18 still never having gone through puberty. How is that any less morally offensive than the dark ages when people were turned into eunuchs just cause. They are still having this decided before puberty.

I honestly don't understand pumping your body full of foreign hormones at any age.
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Atralis posted...

Antifar posted...

Nobody is chopping off anything at that age. You don't have to understand it, it's not happening.

You are just giving them drugs to ensure they never go through puberty and then let them make the choice when they turn 18 still never having gone through puberty. How is that any less morally offensive than the dark ages when people were turned into eunuchs just cause. They are still having this decided before puberty.

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If you have a normal kid and don't let it take weird pills and stuff while it's developing, it'll probably end up better off when he/she is older. Don't try to convince people if they're already willing to ruin their children's lives.

It'll be that much easier for your normal kid to succeed when they're grown up. Don't worry about other people ruining their families.
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ASithLord7 posted...

Atralis posted...

Antifar posted...

Nobody is chopping off anything at that age. You don't have to understand it, it's not happening.

You are just giving them drugs to ensure they never go through puberty and then let them make the choice when they turn 18 still never having gone through puberty. How is that any less morally offensive than the dark ages when people were turned into eunuchs just cause. They are still having this decided before puberty.

Explain to me how that is moving goal posts? You didn't chop off his man parts before the age people normally go through puberty. You just gave him powerful drugs to stop him from ever going through puberty and then you did it later. He still never actually got to realize what those parts are actually for and why people, even a lot of transgender people, want to keep them.

Atralis posted...

Antifar posted...

Nobody is chopping off anything at that age. You don't have to understand it, it's not happening.

You are just giving them drugs to ensure they never go through puberty and then let them make the choice when they turn 18 still never having gone through puberty. How is that any less morally offensive than the dark ages when people were turned into eunuchs just cause. They are still having this decided before puberty.

Have you tried talking to a transgender person about this?

Maybe once you talk to a trans woman and hear how difficult it is to hide her prominent Adam's apple or a trans man to cover up his wide hips, you'd understand why early transition is important.

When a child is born, the very first thing the doctor should do is show them a pink and a blue cloth. Depending on which one they react to more, that will determine their gender for life. If they show no reaction at all they are nongendered
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The only times I know of this to happen is from flubbed circumcisions.
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Maybe once you talk to a trans woman and hear how difficult it is to hide her prominent Adam's apple or a trans man to cover up his wide hips, you'd understand why early transition is important.

Well put. People just don't seem to understand that aethstetic appearances for the < 5% of the population that actually winds up being transgender is just as important as the physical and mental health of those who's parents forced HRT on them because they may or may not feel like they are the other gender.
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People who think it's such a complex higher order thought process that requires someone of full maturity to make fundamentally don't understand the current thinking re: the biology of transgenderism.
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SageHarpuia posted...

those who's parents forced HRT on them because they may or may not feel like they are the other gender.

Sorry, do you have recent evidence of this happening? Of parents forcing HRT on a child against their wishes? Do you think parents *want* a transgender child?
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Atralis posted...

You just gave him powerful drugs to stop him from ever going through puberty

Nobody does that.
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COVxy posted...

People who think it's such a complex higher order thought process that requires someone of full maturity to make fundamentally don't understand the current thinking re: the biology of transgenderism.

There are exactly zero biological tests to determine whether or not someone is transgendered. I'm not denying that transgenderism exists but it is as invisible as Autism or ADHD when it comes to actually trying to take someone's blood or even perform some kind of MRI to determine it. No widely or even narrowly recognized test exists.

If we actually had a test I could understand this. But we don't.

COVxy posted...

People who think it's such a complex higher order thought process that requires someone of full maturity to make fundamentally don't understand the current thinking re: the biology of transgenderism.

I outgrew mine thankfully now I just dont care and will just be me no matter the outside.

To be fair mine was brought on by trauma as a baby.
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CBS had a segment on it awhile back where a little boy was saying he was a girl and his parents went overboard and raised him as one.
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Atralis posted...

"Chop off these dangly bits....why not?"

How the hell can you judge whether or not they want to have that part of their life unless you let them experience it?

Hormone therapy is much more effective pre pubesence, and it isn't done that young without a professional opinion.

Atralis posted...

There are exactly zero biological tests to determine whether or not someone is transgendered. I'm not denying that transgenderism exists but it is as invisible as Autism or ADHD when it comes to actually trying to take someone's blood or even perform some kind of MRI to determine it. No widely or even narrowly recognized test exists.

And yet all forms of psychiatric illnesses are diagnosed in children all the time.
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SageHarpuia posted...

Maybe once you talk to a trans woman and hear how difficult it is to hide her prominent Adam's apple or a trans man to cover up his wide hips, you'd understand why early transition is important.

Well put. People just don't seem to understand that aethstetic appearances for the < 5% of the population that actually winds up being transgender is just as important as the physical and mental health of those who's parents forced HRT on them because they may or may not feel like they are the other gender.

Those aesthetic appearances are essential to passing as their identified gender. You know, part of the point of transition.

Keep up with the completely fabricated boogeyman of the droves of parents forcing their children to go on HRT. I'd ask you to provide proof, but we all know you have none.

It's nothing more than virtue signaling from liberal parents. Before it was just flaunting their hybrid cars or veganism. That stuff has become way too common, so now they're forcing transgenderism on their kids as a way to feel the more progressive than thou.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

It's nothing more than virtue signaling from liberal parents. Before it was just flaunting their hybrid cars or veganism. That stuff has become way too common, so now they're forcing transgenderism on their kids as a way to feel the more progressive than thou.

[Citation Needed]

COVxy posted...

Atralis posted...

There are exactly zero biological tests to determine whether or not someone is transgendered. I'm not denying that transgenderism exists but it is as invisible as Autism or ADHD when it comes to actually trying to take someone's blood or even perform some kind of MRI to determine it. No widely or even narrowly recognized test exists.

And yet all forms of psychiatric illnesses are diagnosed in children all the time.

And we used to give kids lobotomies all the time.

Atralis posted...

COVxy posted...

Atralis posted...

There are exactly zero biological tests to determine whether or not someone is transgendered. I'm not denying that transgenderism exists but it is as invisible as Autism or ADHD when it comes to actually trying to take someone's blood or even perform some kind of MRI to determine it. No widely or even narrowly recognized test exists.

And yet all forms of psychiatric illnesses are diagnosed in children all the time.

And we used to give kids lobotomies all the time.

Pretty big non-sequitur you've got there.
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COVxy posted...

Atralis posted...

COVxy posted...

Atralis posted...

There are exactly zero biological tests to determine whether or not someone is transgendered. I'm not denying that transgenderism exists but it is as invisible as Autism or ADHD when it comes to actually trying to take someone's blood or even perform some kind of MRI to determine it. No widely or even narrowly recognized test exists.

And yet all forms of psychiatric illnesses are diagnosed in children all the time.

And we used to give kids lobotomies all the time.

Pretty big non-sequitur you've got there.

You are talking about giving kids drugs to prevent puberty followed up by surgery to remove parts of their body that you personally would be horrified to lose based on a psychologists diagnosis without a single medical test to back it up.

If I talked about a lobotomy you would also agree that they were surgeries to remove parts of the body you would be horrified to lose based on a psychologists diagnosis without a single medical test to back it up.

I respect that psychology can bring benefits to society but it is not science psychologists can believe opposite viewpoints and still be respected because it is about as scientific as the study of history or philosophy.

Chopping off proves naysayers know nothing on the subject
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Atralis posted...

I respect that psychology can bring benefits to society but it is not science psychologists can believe opposite viewpoints and still be respected because it is about as scientific as the study of history or philosophy.

Idk why people with no knowledge of a subject have such high confidence in their ability to discuss it.
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COVxy posted...

Atralis posted...

I respect that psychology can bring benefits to society but it is not science psychologists can believe opposite viewpoints and still be respected because it is about as scientific as the study of history or philosophy.

Idk why people with no knowledge of a subject have such high confidence in their ability to discuss it.

Am I wrong?
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/13/news/la-ol-blowback-pscyhology-science-20120713

Atralis posted...

Am I wrong?

Yup.
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Atralis posted...

Am I wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_3tdHg6GCM" data-time="
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COVxy posted...

Atralis posted...

Am I wrong?

Yup.

So you have a conclusive test verified through the scientific method that you believe can determine whether someone at a certain age is transgender? Which test? Has this test been verified using the scientific method? What is the rate of false positives? False negatives? What about this test justifies chemically castrating kids from age 8 to 18?

If you can't answer these questions how the fuck can you claim that psychology is science? If you can answer all these questions then you have some ground to speak from. If you can't then you are pretending that pseudoscientific bullshit is "science".

This isn't debatable it is a hard red line. Just tell me the test. Show me the data. Show me the recognized "scientific" test that can determine whether or not someone is transgender at 8 years old that is used all over the world. Show me the science.

DifferentialEquation posted...

It's nothing more than virtue signaling from liberal parents. Before it was just flaunting their hybrid cars or veganism. That stuff has become way too common, so now they're forcing transgenderism on their kids as a way to feel the more progressive than thou.

This.

4 year old kids cant understand what transgender is and they definitely shouldn't be pumped full of drugs or have bits chopped of.

Its child abuse.
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If you can't tell, I can't be arsed to have this debate with someone who will google "psychology isn't a science" and copy and paste the first link in his confirmatory search to justify his opinion.
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COVxy posted...

If you can't tell, I can't be arsed to have this debate with someone who will google "psychology isn't a science" and copy and paste the first link in his confirmatory search to justify his opinion.

Show me the widely recognized scientific test that is used to determine this.

Don't fucking tell me that individual psychologists just talk to the kids and use their feelings and experience to determine whether a kid is transgendered. That is not science. That isn't even in the same fucking ballpark as science. Tell me what test is being used. Tell me the % false positives, % false negatives, etc. show me the shit that actual medical doctors would have to show before they determine whether a medication or surgery is effective or whether it is bullshit.

I think it would be okay to let them pass socially (clothes, pronouns)
But as someone who went through gender dysphoria for many years myself and ended up cis I do think its better to wait for hormones until they're at least 16
Just my opinion though
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Atralis posted...

COVxy posted...

If you can't tell, I can't be arsed to have this debate with someone who will google "psychology isn't a science" and copy and paste the first link in his confirmatory search to justify his opinion.

Show me the widely recognized scientific test that is used to determine this.

Don't fucking tell me that individual psychologists just talk to the kids and use their feelings and experience to determine whether a kid is transgendered. That is not science. That isn't even in the same fucking ballpark as science. Tell me what test is being used. Tell me the % false positives, % false negatives, etc. show me the shit that actual medical doctors would have to show before they determine whether a medication or surgery is effective or whether it is bullshit.

Go ahead.

Act outraged I asked you for the name of the scientific test and tell me that this is science that you are using as your reasoning for castrating kids.

So sure of themeslves so righteous then I ask them for the one important thing that separates their treatment from a prescription of snorting rhino horns as a cure.

Kanaya413 posted...

I think it would be okay to let them pass socially (clothes, pronouns)
But as someone who went through gender dysphoria for many years myself and ended up cis I do think its better to wait for hormones until they're at least 16
Just my opinion though

Are you including puberty blockers in that? Because by age 16, puberty has done its irreversible damage to most people.

I remember when my balls dropped yet they where not big enough to not go back up. Had to "push" the ball back down. Boop
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_Rinku_ posted...

Kanaya413 posted...

I think it would be okay to let them pass socially (clothes, pronouns)
But as someone who went through gender dysphoria for many years myself and ended up cis I do think its better to wait for hormones until they're at least 16
Just my opinion though

Are you including puberty blockers in that? Because by age 16, puberty has done its irreversible damage to most people.

im trans but theres so much wrong with what you're saying here

1) blockers cause osteoporosis (not sure of spelling sorry) when used without HRT

2) puberty doesnt end until far beyond 16 the vast majority of time
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COVxy posted...

If you can't tell, I can't be arsed to have this debate with someone who will google "psychology isn't a science" and copy and paste the first link in his confirmatory search to justify his opinion.

So you have no counter argument ok.
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Kaname_Madoka posted...

_Rinku_ posted...

Kanaya413 posted...

I think it would be okay to let them pass socially (clothes, pronouns)
But as someone who went through gender dysphoria for many years myself and ended up cis I do think its better to wait for hormones until they're at least 16
Just my opinion though

Are you including puberty blockers in that? Because by age 16, puberty has done its irreversible damage to most people.

im trans but theres so much wrong with what you're saying here

1) blockers cause osteoporosis (not sure of spelling sorry) when used without HRT

2) puberty doesnt end until far beyond 16 the vast majority of time

1) [Citation Needed], and don't link me something that only says that it may lead to lower bone density.

2) Never said it ended at 16, did I? But a lot of the irreversible changes (like girls getting DD breasts and boys voices dropping an octave or two) happen by then.