Current Events > Pro-Life should be a liberal virtue and Pro-Choice conservative

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ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 1:04:53 PM #202:	Zodd3224 posted... Resolution posted... Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work. Adoption is more torturous than being killed? I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898647098] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Resolution posted...</cite> <quote>Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work.</quote> Adoption is more torturous than being killed?</quote> I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EndOfDiscOne 03/28/18 1:06:41 PM #203:	Resolution posted... And I can't take anybody seriously who calls a medical procedure done on something that isn't even alive yet "murder". That's just you childishly projecting your feelings onto the concept. Just say that you'd rather everyone get a chance at life The fetus is nonliving? What? --- I am the Cheese! I am the best character on the show! I am better than both the salami and the bologna *COMBINED!* <cite>EndOfDiscOne posted [p:898647184] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Resolution posted...</cite> <quote>And I can't take anybody seriously who calls a medical procedure done on something that isn't even alive yet "murder". That's just you childishly projecting your feelings onto the concept. Just say that you'd rather everyone get a chance at life</quote> The fetus is nonliving? What?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 1:07:43 PM #204:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Zodd3224 posted... Resolution posted... Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work. Adoption is more torturous than being killed? I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily. Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life." --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898647245] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Resolution posted...</cite> <quote>Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work.</quote> Adoption is more torturous than being killed?</quote> I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily.</quote> Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resolution 03/28/18 1:08:13 PM #205:	I'll change it to 'born' since you don't understand basic context clues --- "I eat p****** like you in the pit every show I go to" - ZombiePelican <cite>Resolution posted [p:898647270] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>I'll change it to 'born' since you don't understand basic context clues</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MattSFfrd 03/28/18 1:17:25 PM #206:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... MattSFfrd posted... NibeIungsnarf posted... Nobody kills babies during an abortion, though at what point do you consider it a baby? Oh gee will ya look at that? more snarky comments with non-answers, shocker --- http://i.imgur.com/DHLvJ5Q.gif https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQy5giAUsAAUXXa.jpg <cite>MattSFfrd posted [p:898647816] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>MattSFfrd posted...</cite> <quote><cite>NibeIungsnarf posted...</cite> <quote>Nobody kills babies during an abortion, though</quote> at what point do you consider it a baby?</quote> Oh gee will ya look at that?</quote> more snarky comments with non-answers, shocker</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 1:43:56 PM #207:	Zodd3224 posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Zodd3224 posted... Resolution posted... Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work. Adoption is more torturous than being killed? I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily. Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life." And if they had, I would've been gone before there was even a me at all. I'm totally 100% fine with that. I don't even believe I chose anything at all. I just happened. If I was a fetus and something was all "hey, guy. Do you want to live or just peace out before you have any awareness of what living actually is?" I probably, knowing me, would have asked which choice is more convenient. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898649355] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Resolution posted...</cite> <quote>Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work.</quote> Adoption is more torturous than being killed?</quote> I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily.</quote> Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life."</quote> And if they had, I would've been gone before there was even a me at all. I'm totally 100% fine with that. I don't even believe I chose anything at all. I just happened. If I was a fetus and something was all "hey, guy. Do you want to live or just peace out before you have any awareness of what living actually is?" I probably, knowing me, would have asked which choice is more convenient.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 1:49:28 PM #208:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Zodd3224 posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Zodd3224 posted... Resolution posted... Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work. Adoption is more torturous than being killed? I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily. Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life." And if they had, I would've been gone before there was even a me at all. I'm totally 100% fine with that. I don't even believe I chose anything at all. I just happened. If I was a fetus and something was all "hey, guy. Do you want to live or just peace out before you have any awareness of what living actually is?" I probably, knowing me, would have asked which choice is more convenient. Im not fine with that. You are, but many people would not be okay with being cut off from life before you had a voice. I am glad to be alive and I dont think it would have been right for my parents to begin grow me and just say "nah, we made a mistake, flush this dude out now." All of this said, Im not really pro life, lol. I am 100% against abortions unless it is life threatening to one of the parties involved, but making things illegal rarely makes them go away. It just takes them underground and makes it worse and less safe for everyone involved. Planned Parenthood is a mostly good organization as well. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898649673] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Resolution posted...</cite> <quote>Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work.</quote> Adoption is more torturous than being killed?</quote> I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily.</quote> Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life."</quote> And if they had, I would've been gone before there was even a me at all. I'm totally 100% fine with that. I don't even believe I chose anything at all. I just happened. If I was a fetus and something was all "hey, guy. Do you want to live or just peace out before you have any awareness of what living actually is?" I probably, knowing me, would have asked which choice is more convenient.</quote> Im not fine with that. You are, but many people would not be okay with being cut off from life before you had a voice. I am glad to be alive and I dont think it would have been right for my parents to begin grow me and just say "nah, we made a mistake, flush this dude out now." All of this said, Im not really pro life, lol. I am 100% against abortions unless it is life threatening to one of the parties involved, but making things illegal rarely makes them go away. It just takes them underground and makes it worse and less safe for everyone involved. Planned Parenthood is a mostly good organization as well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darklit_Minuet 03/28/18 2:02:50 PM #209:	Zodd3224 posted... Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific. Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery <cite>Darklit_Minuet posted [p:898650406] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific.</quote> Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 2:09:28 PM #210:	Zodd3224 posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Zodd3224 posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Zodd3224 posted... Resolution posted... Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work. Adoption is more torturous than being killed? I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily. Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life." And if they had, I would've been gone before there was even a me at all. I'm totally 100% fine with that. I don't even believe I chose anything at all. I just happened. If I was a fetus and something was all "hey, guy. Do you want to live or just peace out before you have any awareness of what living actually is?" I probably, knowing me, would have asked which choice is more convenient. Im not fine with that. You are, but many people would not be okay with being cut off from life before you had a voice. I am glad to be alive and I dont think it would have been right for my parents to begin grow me and just say "nah, we made a mistake, flush this dude out now." All of this said, Im not really pro life, lol. I am 100% against abortions unless it is life threatening to one of the parties involved, but making things illegal rarely makes them go away. It just takes them underground and makes it worse and less safe for everyone involved. Planned Parenthood is a mostly good organization as well. Well I'm glad you approve of planned parenthood. I actually donated to them for a while at one point. Stopped when I moved and rent and bills were higher. As for myself, I just view the fact that I'm alive as a choice that was made for me no differently than if the other choice had been made. I'm not responsible for the fact that I exist and nothing about me or my life has ever justified choosing to carry me to term over aborting me. It was an existential coin flip from my perspective and this is how it landed. I don't believe I'm qualified to determine whether one choice would have been any better or worse than the other. I just am. I exist. It is what is. If my biological mother had decided to abort me, I wouldn't be. I wouldn't have existed. It would be what it would be. Maybe having experienced blood relatives offers some significant perspective that I couldn't otherwise have. shrugs --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898650770] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Resolution posted...</cite> <quote>Watching a video isn't going to magically change the facts that adoption is torture for children and that raising a child when you're not financially ready for it is an awful idea for both parties involved. Nobody 'celebrates' abortion. It's a hard decision and tends to have emotional effects on the potential parent. But it exists for logical reasons. Emotional arguments are not going to work.</quote> Adoption is more torturous than being killed?</quote> I was adopted. Wouldn't call it torturous. Had I been aborted, I definitely would not have experienced torture. On a scale of 0-10 for torture, my experience as an adopted person would probably throughout my life have maxed out at maybe 3.5. I'm sure others would rate it lower and others still would rate it higher. Abortion? Consciousness levels at that time would have dictated that it would probably be 0-1. The conclusion is that I would have to agree, but it wouldn't be true for all cases necessarily.</quote> Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life."</quote> And if they had, I would've been gone before there was even a me at all. I'm totally 100% fine with that. I don't even believe I chose anything at all. I just happened. If I was a fetus and something was all "hey, guy. Do you want to live or just peace out before you have any awareness of what living actually is?" I probably, knowing me, would have asked which choice is more convenient.</quote> Im not fine with that. You are, but many people would not be okay with being cut off from life before you had a voice. I am glad to be alive and I dont think it would have been right for my parents to begin grow me and just say "nah, we made a mistake, flush this dude out now." All of this said, Im not really pro life, lol. I am 100% against abortions unless it is life threatening to one of the parties involved, but making things illegal rarely makes them go away. It just takes them underground and makes it worse and less safe for everyone involved. Planned Parenthood is a mostly good organization as well.</quote> Well I'm glad you approve of planned parenthood. I actually donated to them for a while at one point. Stopped when I moved and rent and bills were higher. As for myself, I just view the fact that I'm alive as a choice that was made for me no differently than if the other choice had been made. I'm not responsible for the fact that I exist and nothing about me or my life has ever justified choosing to carry me to term over aborting me. It was an existential coin flip from my perspective and this is how it landed. I don't believe I'm qualified to determine whether one choice would have been any better or worse than the other. I just am. I exist. It is what is. If my biological mother had decided to abort me, I wouldn't be. I wouldn't have existed. It would be what it would be. Maybe having experienced blood relatives offers some significant perspective that I couldn't otherwise have. shrugs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 2:20:58 PM #211:	Darklit_Minuet posted... Zodd3224 posted... Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific. Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898651434] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darklit_Minuet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific.</quote> Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery</quote> Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 03/28/18 4:21:13 PM #212:	Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>Howl posted [p:898658176] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 4:32:31 PM #213:	Howl posted... Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals. Hahahahahahahaaahaha lmfao --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898658750] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote>Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals.</quote> Hahahahahahahaaahaha lmfao</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 03/28/18 4:39:07 PM #214:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Howl posted... Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals. Hahahahahahahaaahaha lmfao Someone should tell the blacklivesmatter movement that more black women have abortions than any other race. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>Howl posted [p:898659114] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote> Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals.</quote> Hahahahahahahaaahaha lmfao</quote> Someone should tell the blacklivesmatter movement that more black women have abortions than any other race.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 4:47:49 PM #215:	Howl posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Howl posted... Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals. Hahahahahahahaaahaha lmfao Someone should tell the blacklivesmatter movement that more black women have abortions than any other race. Okay. Why does that matter? Why say that when quoting me specifically? :P --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898659616] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote> Pro-life should be a liberal and conservative virtue tbh. Sadly life is unimportant to a lot of liberals.</quote> Hahahahahahahaaahaha lmfao</quote> Someone should tell the blacklivesmatter movement that more black women have abortions than any other race.</quote> Okay. Why does that matter? Why say that when quoting me specifically? :P</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 03/28/18 4:50:54 PM #216:	Neither end of the horseshoe cares much for body autonomy anyway. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:898659787] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>Neither end of the horseshoe cares much for body autonomy anyway.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 03/28/18 7:29:38 PM #217:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Edit: nevermind. It's in the name itself, "lives matter." That flew right over my head lol. XD --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>Howl posted [p:898668708] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote>Edit: nevermind. It's in the name itself, "lives matter." That flew right over my head lol.</quote> XD</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 03/28/18 7:34:37 PM #218:	Zodd3224 posted... Darklit_Minuet posted... Zodd3224 posted... Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific. Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process. But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:898669000] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darklit_Minuet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific.</quote> Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery</quote> Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process.</quote> But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 03/28/18 7:37:52 PM #219:	I think the most interesting aspect of this argument is the Libertarian stance has well reasoned arguments for and against abortion that are both based on the non agression principle. One side argues that abortions are a violation of the non-agression principle, the other argues that it isn't because a baby is actively an agressor to the mother as having an abortion is an act of self defense against it. I don't really quite understand the nuance of both sides, but abortion as self defense against a parasitic entity growing within a woman seems to be the most logically consistent argument in favor of abortions imo. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>Howl posted [p:898669172] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>I think the most interesting aspect of this argument is the Libertarian stance has well reasoned arguments for and against abortion that are both based on the non agression principle. One side argues that abortions are a violation of the non-agression principle, the other argues that it isn't because a baby is actively an agressor to the mother as having an abortion is an act of self defense against it. I don't really quite understand the nuance of both sides, but abortion as self defense against a parasitic entity growing within a woman seems to be the most logically consistent argument in favor of abortions imo.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/28/18 7:43:05 PM #220:	Zodd3224 posted... Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life." Everyone only exists because of other people's decisions and being conceived at just the right time. If my parents used a condom that night I wouldn't exist. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898669432] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life."</quote> Everyone only exists because of other people's decisions and being conceived at just the right time. If my parents used a condom that night I wouldn't exist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 7:48:57 PM #221:	Howl posted... I think the most interesting aspect of this argument is the Libertarian stance has well reasoned arguments for and against abortion that are both based on the non agression principle. One side argues that abortions are a violation of the non-agression principle, the other argues that it isn't because a baby is actively an agressor to the mother as having an abortion is an act of self defense against it. I don't really quite understand the nuance of both sides, but abortion as self defense against a parasitic entity growing within a woman seems to be the most logically consistent argument in favor of abortions imo. This makes sense. If she doesn't want it to be in there, it's invasive. Even parasites can be non-invasive. I've heard of people getting tapeworms on purpose as a weight loss method (dumb and risky, but it's happened). I even heard of one guy who was terminally ill with some weird condition. Can't remember anything at all about it, just that he heard of some bizarre treatment method and tried it as a last ditch effort and he got better, with adverse side effects but his health improved. He went to rural Africa and walked around barefoot in mud contaminated with shit for weeks to contract hookworm. Somehow that helped his condition. A pregnant woman who actually wants to have the kid would be the parallel in the abortion context >_> --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898669769] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote>I think the most interesting aspect of this argument is the Libertarian stance has well reasoned arguments for and against abortion that are both based on the non agression principle. One side argues that abortions are a violation of the non-agression principle, the other argues that it isn't because a baby is actively an agressor to the mother as having an abortion is an act of self defense against it. I don't really quite understand the nuance of both sides, but abortion as self defense against a parasitic entity growing within a woman seems to be the most logically consistent argument in favor of abortions imo.</quote> This makes sense. If she doesn't want it to be in there, it's invasive. Even parasites can be non-invasive. I've heard of people getting tapeworms on purpose as a weight loss method (dumb and risky, but it's happened). I even heard of one guy who was terminally ill with some weird condition. Can't remember anything at all about it, just that he heard of some bizarre treatment method and tried it as a last ditch effort and he got better, with adverse side effects but his health improved. He went to rural Africa and walked around barefoot in mud contaminated with shit for weeks to contract hookworm. Somehow that helped his condition. A pregnant woman who actually wants to have the kid would be the parallel in the abortion context >_></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 7:51:20 PM #222:	Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... Darklit_Minuet posted... Zodd3224 posted... Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific. Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process. But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response. People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898669894] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darklit_Minuet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific.</quote> Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery</quote> Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process.</quote> But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response.</quote> People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 7:52:53 PM #223:	Darmik posted... Zodd3224 posted... Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life." Everyone only exists because of other people's decisions and being conceived at just the right time. If my parents used a condom that night I wouldn't exist. But they didnt use a condom. You began to grow inside your mother. And they didnt suck you out and kill you. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898669985] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life."</quote> Everyone only exists because of other people's decisions and being conceived at just the right time. If my parents used a condom that night I wouldn't exist.</quote> But they didnt use a condom. You began to grow inside your mother. And they didnt suck you out and kill you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 03/28/18 7:56:20 PM #224:	Zodd3224 posted... People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:898670173] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/28/18 8:02:26 PM #225:	Zodd3224 posted... Darmik posted... Zodd3224 posted... Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life." Everyone only exists because of other people's decisions and being conceived at just the right time. If my parents used a condom that night I wouldn't exist. But they didnt use a condom. You began to grow inside your mother. And they didnt suck you out and kill you. It would make no difference to me if they used a condom, if I was aborted or if my Mum had a headache that night. I wouldn't exist and I'd never know. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898670495] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Of course it wouldnt be true of all cases. But the point is, there is a chance at life and you made your own decision to keep living and here you are. Someone else didnt say for you before you got to decide "nope, lets not give him a chance at life."</quote> Everyone only exists because of other people's decisions and being conceived at just the right time. If my parents used a condom that night I wouldn't exist.</quote> But they didnt use a condom. You began to grow inside your mother. And they didnt suck you out and kill you.</quote> It would make no difference to me if they used a condom, if I was aborted or if my Mum had a headache that night. I wouldn't exist and I'd never know.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 03/28/18 8:02:39 PM #226:	Zodd3224 posted... Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... Darklit_Minuet posted... Zodd3224 posted... Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific. Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process. But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response. People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. I wonder if highschool kids being made to watch a birth would have any effect on the need for abortions... <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:898670504] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darklit_Minuet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific.</quote> Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery</quote> Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process.</quote> But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response.</quote> People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> I wonder if highschool kids being made to watch a birth would have any effect on the need for abortions...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 03/28/18 8:06:07 PM #227:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Howl posted... I think the most interesting aspect of this argument is the Libertarian stance has well reasoned arguments for and against abortion that are both based on the non agression principle. One side argues that abortions are a violation of the non-agression principle, the other argues that it isn't because a baby is actively an agressor to the mother as having an abortion is an act of self defense against it. I don't really quite understand the nuance of both sides, but abortion as self defense against a parasitic entity growing within a woman seems to be the most logically consistent argument in favor of abortions imo. This makes sense. If she doesn't want it to be in there, it's invasive. Even parasites can be non-invasive. I've heard of people getting tapeworms on purpose as a weight loss method (dumb and risky, but it's happened). I even heard of one guy who was terminally ill with some weird condition. Can't remember anything at all about it, just that he heard of some bizarre treatment method and tried it as a last ditch effort and he got better, with adverse side effects but his health improved. He went to rural Africa and walked around barefoot in mud contaminated with shit for weeks to contract hookworm. Somehow that helped his condition. A pregnant woman who actually wants to have the kid would be the parallel in the abortion context >_> These are the most interesting conversations about the topic imo and I don't pretend to know the full nuance to it. The level of argument is just higher as the standard "my body my choice" or "abortion is murder" rhetoric isn't fully logically consistent and is just basically nonsense. One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>Howl posted [p:898670716] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote> I think the most interesting aspect of this argument is the Libertarian stance has well reasoned arguments for and against abortion that are both based on the non agression principle. One side argues that abortions are a violation of the non-agression principle, the other argues that it isn't because a baby is actively an agressor to the mother as having an abortion is an act of self defense against it. I don't really quite understand the nuance of both sides, but abortion as self defense against a parasitic entity growing within a woman seems to be the most logically consistent argument in favor of abortions imo.</quote> This makes sense. If she doesn't want it to be in there, it's invasive. Even parasites can be non-invasive. I've heard of people getting tapeworms on purpose as a weight loss method (dumb and risky, but it's happened). I even heard of one guy who was terminally ill with some weird condition. Can't remember anything at all about it, just that he heard of some bizarre treatment method and tried it as a last ditch effort and he got better, with adverse side effects but his health improved. He went to rural Africa and walked around barefoot in mud contaminated with shit for weeks to contract hookworm. Somehow that helped his condition. A pregnant woman who actually wants to have the kid would be the parallel in the abortion context >_></quote> These are the most interesting conversations about the topic imo and I don't pretend to know the full nuance to it. The level of argument is just higher as the standard "my body my choice" or "abortion is murder" rhetoric isn't fully logically consistent and is just basically nonsense. One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 03/28/18 8:11:06 PM #228:	Howl posted... One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit. Voters like to live vicariously through candidates. That's why any firehose who survives the primaries beats the moderate. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:898670969] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote>One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit.</quote> Voters like to live vicariously through candidates. That's why any firehose who survives the primaries beats the moderate.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 03/28/18 8:14:36 PM #229:	Questionmarktarius posted... Howl posted... One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit. Voters like to live vicariously through candidates. That's why any firehose who survives the primaries beats the moderate. Yeah, that makes sense, otherwise it would have been Sanders Vs Paul in the general election. That's the general election the public deserved tbh. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>Howl posted [p:898671197] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote> One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit.</quote> Voters like to live vicariously through candidates. That's why any firehose who survives the primaries beats the moderate.</quote> Yeah, that makes sense, otherwise it would have been Sanders Vs Paul in the general election. That's the general election the public deserved tbh.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 8:17:33 PM #230:	Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act. I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898671354] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act.</quote> I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 8:19:09 PM #231:	Questionmarktarius posted... Zodd3224 posted... Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... Darklit_Minuet posted... Zodd3224 posted... Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific. Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process. But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response. People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. I wonder if highschool kids being made to watch a birth would have any effect on the need for abortions... They should absolutely watch, so they can see the full consequences of their actions. Well, the birth isnt even close to the FULL consequence, but would probably have the greatest effect on teens. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898671448] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darklit_Minuet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>Also, before anyone says they are pro choice, they should watch at least one video of an actual abortion. Its absolutely horrific.</quote> Any operation is absolutely horrific. I wouldn't want to watch an open heart surgery but that doesn't mean I'm against open heart surgery</quote> Thats not the same. Open heart surgery is a life saving operation. What people need to see is exactly what the aborted looks like that they are okay with being aborted. If you can watch an abortion take place and still be okay with it, then okay. I also believe everyone who eats meat should watch the entire process of what animals go through before they end up on your plate. It was enough for me to go vegetarian for a month, but I was too weak, lol. My sister in law however watched one when she was younger and hasnt eaten meat since. Once she knew what she was actually okaying each time she ate a burger or chicken or whatever she realized she was not okay with it after seeing the process.</quote> But that sort of thing isn't really dealing with the question "should it be okay to make [x] decision." It's just trying to manipulate the individual into an emotional response.</quote> People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> I wonder if highschool kids being made to watch a birth would have any effect on the need for abortions...</quote> They should absolutely watch, so they can see the full consequences of their actions. Well, the birth isnt even close to the FULL consequence, but would probably have the greatest effect on teens.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 03/28/18 8:20:27 PM #232:	Howl posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Howl posted... One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit. Voters like to live vicariously through candidates. That's why any firehose who survives the primaries beats the moderate. Yeah, that makes sense, otherwise it would have been Sanders Vs Paul in the general election. That's the general election the public deserved tbh. Sanders is a firehose who didn't survive the primary. Go look at 76 and 80 to see the effect in action. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:898671522] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote> One can't really expect the general public to discuss topics like these in a rational and intelligent manner though. I just wish politicians would so as to bring the level up a bit.</quote> Voters like to live vicariously through candidates. That's why any firehose who survives the primaries beats the moderate.</quote> Yeah, that makes sense, otherwise it would have been Sanders Vs Paul in the general election. That's the general election the public deserved tbh.</quote> Sanders is a firehose who didn't survive the primary. Go look at 76 and 80 to see the effect in action.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 03/28/18 8:27:04 PM #233:	Zodd3224 posted... Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act. I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one. Why? Why should the process being unpleasant to watch have any implication on the moral acceptability of some decision? Does abortion being unpleasant to watch change the arguments for abortion? Do the frankly horrid living conditions for many animals in the meat and dairy industries (among others) change the arguments for why humans should be allowed to eat them? Disgust is an emotion, not an argument. Naturally, as an emotion, if it prevents you from making a personal decision then fair enough. But it should have no bearing whatsoever on the issue overall. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:898671916] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act.</quote> I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one.</quote> Why? Why should the process being unpleasant to watch have any implication on the moral acceptability of some decision? Does abortion being unpleasant to watch change the arguments for abortion? Do the frankly horrid living conditions for many animals in the meat and dairy industries (among others) change the arguments for why humans should be allowed to eat them? Disgust is an emotion, not an argument. Naturally, as an emotion, if it prevents you from making a personal decision then fair enough. But it should have no bearing whatsoever on the issue overall.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/28/18 8:34:29 PM #234:	Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898672367] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 8:36:03 PM #235:	Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act. I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one. Why? Why should the process being unpleasant to watch have any implication on the moral acceptability of some decision? Does abortion being unpleasant to watch change the arguments for abortion? Do the frankly horrid living conditions for many animals in the meat and dairy industries (among others) change the arguments for why humans should be allowed to eat them? Disgust is an emotion, not an argument. Naturally, as an emotion, if it prevents you from making a personal decision then fair enough. But it should have no bearing whatsoever on the issue overall. No, but Im sure it would make many people (such as myself) think twice as to whether it is something they are okay with doing. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898672455] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act.</quote> I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one.</quote> Why? Why should the process being unpleasant to watch have any implication on the moral acceptability of some decision? Does abortion being unpleasant to watch change the arguments for abortion? Do the frankly horrid living conditions for many animals in the meat and dairy industries (among others) change the arguments for why humans should be allowed to eat them? Disgust is an emotion, not an argument. Naturally, as an emotion, if it prevents you from making a personal decision then fair enough. But it should have no bearing whatsoever on the issue overall.</quote> No, but Im sure it would make many people (such as myself) think twice as to whether it is something they are okay with doing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 8:36:25 PM #236:	Darmik posted... Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that. Completely irrelevant --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898672475] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote>Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that.</quote> Completely irrelevant</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/28/18 8:39:18 PM #237:	Zodd3224 posted... Darmik posted... Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that. Completely irrelevant Not really. Nobody is arguing that an abortion is a pleasant experience. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise. I'm sure it has its toll on both their body and mind. Trying to guilt people over it because it looks gross isn't the way to go. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898672622] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote>Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that.</quote> Completely irrelevant</quote> Not really. Nobody is arguing that an abortion is a pleasant experience. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise. I'm sure it has its toll on both their body and mind. Trying to guilt people over it because it looks gross isn't the way to go.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 03/28/18 8:39:50 PM #238:	Zodd3224 posted... Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... Dragonblade01 posted... Zodd3224 posted... People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it. I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act. I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one. Why? Why should the process being unpleasant to watch have any implication on the moral acceptability of some decision? Does abortion being unpleasant to watch change the arguments for abortion? Do the frankly horrid living conditions for many animals in the meat and dairy industries (among others) change the arguments for why humans should be allowed to eat them? Disgust is an emotion, not an argument. Naturally, as an emotion, if it prevents you from making a personal decision then fair enough. But it should have no bearing whatsoever on the issue overall. No, but Im sure it would make many people (such as myself) think twice as to whether it is something they are okay with doing. The purpose of seeing the process should not be to "make people think twice" about whether or not it's okay to do something, because it's irrelevant to the moral question. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:898672652] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>People should know exactly what it is they are saying they are okay with. Everyone should absolutely watch it.</quote> I agree to the extent that knowledge about something is important, but the process being unpleasant to watch shouldn't have any bearing on the moral acceptability of a broader act.</quote> I disagree. Seeing how we get our meat changed my mind completely about how moral it is. It has lead to me cutting down on my meat consumption. I wish I could quit completely, but I havent been able to. If the truth about the abortion process causes some people to change their minds, then that is a win imo. It wont stop everyone, but some people on the fence could be swayed to not get one.</quote> Why? Why should the process being unpleasant to watch have any implication on the moral acceptability of some decision? Does abortion being unpleasant to watch change the arguments for abortion? Do the frankly horrid living conditions for many animals in the meat and dairy industries (among others) change the arguments for why humans should be allowed to eat them? Disgust is an emotion, not an argument. Naturally, as an emotion, if it prevents you from making a personal decision then fair enough. But it should have no bearing whatsoever on the issue overall.</quote> No, but Im sure it would make many people (such as myself) think twice as to whether it is something they are okay with doing.</quote> The purpose of seeing the process should not be to "make people think twice" about whether or not it's okay to do something, because it's irrelevant to the moral question.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 8:41:51 PM #239:	Darmik posted... Zodd3224 posted... Darmik posted... Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that. Completely irrelevant Not really. Nobody is arguing that an abortion is a pleasant experience. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise. I'm sure it has its toll on both their body and mind. Trying to guilt people over it because it looks gross isn't the way to go. A colostomy bag is not ending any lives, it is helping one. Irrelevant. And its not about looking gross. I think a lot of people hear the word abortion and know what it is, but dont TRULY understand what it really is until you see the actual process. Its a lot easier to just say "yeah abortions are fine" without truly seeing what actually takes place. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898672752] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote>Having a colostomy bag is unpleasant to see and handle. I'm not gonna argue against it because of that.</quote> Completely irrelevant</quote> Not really. Nobody is arguing that an abortion is a pleasant experience. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise. I'm sure it has its toll on both their body and mind. Trying to guilt people over it because it looks gross isn't the way to go.</quote> A colostomy bag is not ending any lives, it is helping one. Irrelevant. And its not about looking gross. I think a lot of people hear the word abortion and know what it is, but dont TRULY understand what it really is until you see the actual process. Its a lot easier to just say "yeah abortions are fine" without truly seeing what actually takes place.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darmik 03/28/18 8:50:00 PM #240:	Zodd3224 posted... A colostomy bag is not ending any lives, it is helping one. Irrelevant. That's a different argument than "it's immoral because it looks bad" then Zodd3224 posted... And its not about looking gross. I think a lot of people hear the word abortion and know what it is, but dont TRULY understand what it really is until you see the actual process. Its a lot easier to just say "yeah abortions are fine" without truly seeing what actually takes place. Not sure where you're getting that from. People know what it means to be pregnant. People know what happens when they get an abortion. People in the past have forced abortions themselves. I doubt they don't understand what they're doing. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:898673200] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>A colostomy bag is not ending any lives, it is helping one. Irrelevant.</quote> That's a different argument than "it's immoral because it looks bad" then <cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>And its not about looking gross. I think a lot of people hear the word abortion and know what it is, but dont TRULY understand what it really is until you see the actual process. Its a lot easier to just say "yeah abortions are fine" without truly seeing what actually takes place.</quote> Not sure where you're getting that from. People know what it means to be pregnant. People know what happens when they get an abortion. People in the past have forced abortions themselves. I doubt they don't understand what they're doing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 9:05:07 PM #241:	Howl posted... . (Got verbose and had to edit out >_>) Yeah, I agree. A lot of polarizing subjects are like that. We've devolved into arguing with buzzwords and memes. It's so tiresome. I'm a very impatient person and I hate monotony and repetition. I also have a superb memory. Because of all of this, I have a very low tolerance for seeing the same memes and buzzwords over and over as attempts to make points (unless they amuse me enough for me to appreciate them). That's why you don't see parroting liberal/sjw stuff like orange skin, well done steak, ice cream, covfefe and other anti-trump, anti-conservative non-arguments. Duck that circlejerk shit lol. I don't think I could ever be anti-abortion. The rights of those already born always supersede the rights of the unborn as far as I'm concerned. I don't really have a strong opinion on late term abortions. I don't really disagree with the idea, but I wouldn't argue in favor of such things either. A line should be drawn somewhere and where it is drawn currently in abortion-legal states seems satisfactory enough for me. A woman due in a week getting anxiety and cold feet and wanting a last minute abortion? That doesn't seem right to me (but that's not legal, and that fact is probably a good thing). At the same time, "life begins at the exact moment of conception and is inherently sacred" is emotional and ridiculous. Medical acceptance of fetal cognitive function and viability works for me, and the libertarian pro-choice argument you posted does as well. I also have some perspective on both sides as my stepsister had an abortion at 15 and then got pregnant again at 17 and decided not to go that route again. In hindsight, I fully 100% feel like she made the correct choice in both cases. I tried to convince her that she shouldn't make her choice out of guilt the 2nd time, as that was her logic in it. I didn't get through to her. That being said, she really got her shit together and was literally exemplary as a single mother. She and her boyfriend (not the father) bought a house within the past year. My niece is I think 12 now? (Maybe 11, I can never remember lol). Can I say she shouldn't have had the abortionI'm at 15 because of how things have turned out in reality? No. She faced the same decision twice and made 2 different choices. I contend that both choices were right. The fact is, both choices were choices. They were made by her. They were not imposed upon her. In my opinion, that made a world of difference. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898674014] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote>.</quote> (Got verbose and had to edit out >_>) Yeah, I agree. A lot of polarizing subjects are like that. We've devolved into arguing with buzzwords and memes. It's so tiresome. I'm a very impatient person and I hate monotony and repetition. I also have a superb memory. Because of all of this, I have a very low tolerance for seeing the same memes and buzzwords over and over as attempts to make points (unless they amuse me enough for me to appreciate them). That's why you don't see parroting liberal/sjw stuff like orange skin, well done steak, ice cream, covfefe and other anti-trump, anti-conservative non-arguments. Duck that circlejerk shit lol. I don't think I could ever be anti-abortion. The rights of those already born always supersede the rights of the unborn as far as I'm concerned. I don't really have a strong opinion on late term abortions. I don't really disagree with the idea, but I wouldn't argue in favor of such things either. A line should be drawn somewhere and where it is drawn currently in abortion-legal states seems satisfactory enough for me. A woman due in a week getting anxiety and cold feet and wanting a last minute abortion? That doesn't seem right to me (but that's not legal, and that fact is probably a good thing). At the same time, "life begins at the exact moment of conception and is inherently sacred" is emotional and ridiculous. Medical acceptance of fetal cognitive function and viability works for me, and the libertarian pro-choice argument you posted does as well. I also have some perspective on both sides as my stepsister had an abortion at 15 and then got pregnant again at 17 and decided not to go that route again. In hindsight, I fully 100% feel like she made the correct choice in both cases. I tried to convince her that she shouldn't make her choice out of guilt the 2nd time, as that was her logic in it. I didn't get through to her. That being said, she really got her shit together and was literally exemplary as a single mother. She and her boyfriend (not the father) bought a house within the past year. My niece is I think 12 now? (Maybe 11, I can never remember lol). Can I say she shouldn't have had the abortionI'm at 15 because of how things have turned out in reality? No. She faced the same decision twice and made 2 different choices. I contend that both choices were right. The fact is, both choices were choices. They were made by her. They were not imposed upon her. In my opinion, that made a world of difference.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 03/28/18 9:05:48 PM #242:	Darmik posted... Zodd3224 posted... A colostomy bag is not ending any lives, it is helping one. Irrelevant. That's a different argument than "it's immoral because it looks bad" then Zodd3224 posted... And its not about looking gross. I think a lot of people hear the word abortion and know what it is, but dont TRULY understand what it really is until you see the actual process. Its a lot easier to just say "yeah abortions are fine" without truly seeing what actually takes place. Not sure where you're getting that from. People know what it means to be pregnant. People know what happens when they get an abortion. People in the past have forced abortions themselves. I doubt they don't understand what they're doing. Honestly, its the same as pregnancy. You can tell kids "hey, dont have unprotected sex you could get pregnant/catch an STD." I did it anyways until one of my close friends knocked up a girl in high school and I saw how much more difficult his life became. It made it real, actually seeing it rather than just hearing about it. --- "Just Karate chop the nightmare into submission." -Laurie1527 <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:898674049] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>A colostomy bag is not ending any lives, it is helping one. Irrelevant.</quote> That's a different argument than "it's immoral because it looks bad" then <cite>Zodd3224 posted...</cite> <quote>And its not about looking gross. I think a lot of people hear the word abortion and know what it is, but dont TRULY understand what it really is until you see the actual process. Its a lot easier to just say "yeah abortions are fine" without truly seeing what actually takes place.</quote> Not sure where you're getting that from. People know what it means to be pregnant. People know what happens when they get an abortion. People in the past have forced abortions themselves. I doubt they don't understand what they're doing.</quote> Honestly, its the same as pregnancy. You can tell kids "hey, dont have unprotected sex you could get pregnant/catch an STD." I did it anyways until one of my close friends knocked up a girl in high school and I saw how much more difficult his life became. It made it real, actually seeing it rather than just hearing about it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 03/28/18 9:37:37 PM #243:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Howl posted... . (Got verbose and had to edit out >_>) . Yeah I can see that. The thing with me is that I don't honestly really know what the "right" answer is and I can see a lot of merit to the argument from both sides that I posted. I post stupid trolly anti-abortion things just because it's fun though sometimes. I am not really "pro-life" or "pro-choice" because I don't think I fully understand the issue well enough to give a competent rational opinion about it. I'd say I guess I lean more towards the pro-life end, but I can't see the merit to the argument that a woman who's only 15 weeks pregnant and just found, that she should have to carry a baby to full term especially in cases of rape and stuff but the rape issue is such a small portion of abortion cases that I think that argument gets used as a crutch for people defending obviously reprehensible acts like a woman aborting a 9 month old baby in her stomache. The biggest issue to me is the issue of sentience and viability. If a baby is already viable, I can't see the logic behind it being "just the woman's body" but there's an extreme grey area as to when viability occurs because some babies have survived birth as low as 21 weeks. I guess that's the hardest part of it all, when exactly does a fetus develop into a sentient life? It definitely happens at some point during pregnancy, but exactly when is the biggest issue that really needs to be discussed when creating laws about it imo. I'm not really sure that the Science behind consciousness is even advanced enough for us to determine it at this point either, but I'm definitely 100% against a woman having an abortion at 9 months of pregnancy in just about any circumstance that won't result in her death for sure. Even in cases of rape I think the woman shouldn't be allowed to do that at 9 months tbh because she had at least 5 months before hand to determine that she didn't want to carry it and I think that's extremely similar to a woman just straight up killing a baby. I wouldn't say it's exactly the same but it's similar enough that I think it should be illegal. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.3 <cite>Howl posted [p:898675853] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote> .</quote> (Got verbose and had to edit out >_>) .</quote> Yeah I can see that. The thing with me is that I don't honestly really know what the "right" answer is and I can see a lot of merit to the argument from both sides that I posted. I post stupid trolly anti-abortion things just because it's fun though sometimes. I am not really "pro-life" or "pro-choice" because I don't think I fully understand the issue well enough to give a competent rational opinion about it. I'd say I guess I lean more towards the pro-life end, but I can't see the merit to the argument that a woman who's only 15 weeks pregnant and just found, that she should have to carry a baby to full term especially in cases of rape and stuff but the rape issue is such a small portion of abortion cases that I think that argument gets used as a crutch for people defending obviously reprehensible acts like a woman aborting a 9 month old baby in her stomache. The biggest issue to me is the issue of sentience and viability. If a baby is already viable, I can't see the logic behind it being "just the woman's body" but there's an extreme grey area as to when viability occurs because some babies have survived birth as low as 21 weeks. I guess that's the hardest part of it all, when exactly does a fetus develop into a sentient life? It definitely happens at some point during pregnancy, but exactly when is the biggest issue that really needs to be discussed when creating laws about it imo. I'm not really sure that the Science behind consciousness is even advanced enough for us to determine it at this point either, but I'm definitely 100% against a woman having an abortion at 9 months of pregnancy in just about any circumstance that won't result in her death for sure. Even in cases of rape I think the woman shouldn't be allowed to do that at 9 months tbh because she had at least 5 months before hand to determine that she didn't want to carry it and I think that's extremely similar to a woman just straight up killing a baby. I wouldn't say it's exactly the same but it's similar enough that I think it should be illegal.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 03/28/18 10:34:56 PM #244:	Howl posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... Howl posted... . (Got verbose and had to edit out >_>) . That's fair. Makes sense. I agree that it becomes more complicated and even suspicious if a 8-month pregnant woman walks into a abortion clinic claiming to have been raped and using that as her argument for her decision. It's suspect. It's sketchy. Part of why I'm pro-choice is because of laws were more restrictive, would we not have more cases like that? If the law is "abortion is illegal unless you got raped by your family member..." how many scared, anxious young girls would misguidedly show up at clinics in the final hour claiming "my daddy or my bro raped me sobs abortion plz?" And while in those cases, paternity tests would confirm or deny those stories, they shouldn't have been in the position to try and argue that shit... but let's say take incest out of the equation... If she can't abort, what's to stop her from going all in on rape claims? I'm sure you heard of that case at Amherst College of the drunk girl blowing a passed out dude and him getting f**ed by the school for rape. I literally live right around the block from that campus when that happened. Pro-life controlling the laws, but rape being an exception means more false rape claims out of panic. Outlawing all abortion legitimizes rape pregnancies. Both scenarios are fucked up. "All human lives are sacred... (meaning humans are capable of being monsters but not classified as such no matter what terrible acts they commit)" Vs. "We must protect ourselves from monsters, both preemptively and in retrospect, and no innocent should be subjected to monstrous ideology." The true question the blanket-falls over all of us if the definition of monstrosity, and it should not be taken lightly and should be handled on a case by case basis. Therein lies the problem. As a species, we just aren't there yet. Some have run ahead of themselves, many lag behind. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:898679025] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote> .</quote> (Got verbose and had to edit out >_>) .</quote> </quote> That's fair. Makes sense. I agree that it becomes more complicated and even suspicious if a 8-month pregnant woman walks into a abortion clinic claiming to have been raped and using that as her argument for her decision. It's suspect. It's sketchy. Part of why I'm pro-choice is because of laws were more restrictive, would we not have more cases like that? If the law is "abortion is illegal unless you got raped by your family member..." how many scared, anxious young girls would misguidedly show up at clinics in the final hour claiming "my daddy or my bro raped me sobs* abortion plz?" And while in those cases, paternity tests would confirm or deny those stories, they shouldn't have been in the position to try and argue that shit... but let's say take incest out of the equation... If she can't abort, what's to stop her from going all in on rape claims? I'm sure you heard of that case at Amherst College of the drunk girl blowing a passed out dude and him getting f***ed by the school for rape. I literally live right around the block from that campus when that happened. Pro-life controlling the laws, but rape being an exception means more false rape claims out of panic. Outlawing all abortion legitimizes rape pregnancies. Both scenarios are fucked up. "All human lives are sacred... (meaning humans are capable of being monsters but not classified as such no matter what terrible acts they commit)" Vs. "We must protect ourselves from monsters, both preemptively and in retrospect, and no innocent should be subjected to monstrous ideology." The true question the blanket-falls over all of us if the definition of monstrosity, and it should not be taken lightly and should be handled on a case by case basis. Therein lies the problem. As a species, we just aren't there yet. Some have run ahead of themselves, many lag behind.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
02fran 03/28/18 11:18:20 PM #245:	People who lack the responsibility to take care of kids shouldn't be reproducing anyways. It's a win-win. It's ironic how the conservatives that want it banned will only increase the amount of people who become liberal and pro-choice if their sick fantasies are to left to happen. <cite>02fran posted [p:898681336] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>People who lack the responsibility to take care of kids shouldn't be reproducing anyways. It's a win-win. It's ironic how the conservatives that want it banned will only increase the amount of people who become liberal and pro-choice if their sick fantasies are to left to happen.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LepartialJury 03/31/18 6:09:42 AM #246:	HOWL Warned User Since: Mar 2017 Karma: 316 Active Posts: 110 --- Simple-straight-narrow <cite>LepartialJury posted [p:898809323] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>HOWL Warned User Since: Mar 2017 Karma: 316 Active Posts: 110</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#247	Post #247 was unavailable or deleted.
FreedomEtrtment 04/04/18 5:11:03 AM #248:	I've worked in the fish slaughtering isle before and saw an abortion live. Slaughtering the fish was worse. <cite>FreedomEtrtment posted [p:899029797] in Pro-Life s... [t:76451796]...</cite> <quote>I've worked in the fish slaughtering isle before and saw an abortion live. Slaughtering the fish was worse.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Pro-Life should be a liberal virtue and Pro-Choice conservative (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Pro-Life should be a liberal virtue and Pro-Choice conservative