Current Events > Why is it wrong to disqualify smokers, drug addicts and alcoholics from getting

(+) Yeah! (+)

free health care?

Theyre likely the type who will just continue their actions once you give them free health care, because they know you will just continue to save their lives
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There's no such thing as "free health care."
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In the case of drug addicts, drugs are on the black market and thus tax-free. In a regime which legalizes and taxes them, with those taxes going towards health care for users, I'd see no problem with them getting that care.

For alcoholics and smokers, those products should have an excise tax on them that's precisely the amount needed (or as close as reasonably possible - certianly not a case like in New Zealand where the tobacco tax is enough to cover tobacco-related health costs several times over) to cover the extra health care costs associated with those things.

This is, of course, assuming we're dealing with a public health system in the first place. In the case of an insurance-based health system, instead of taxes it should be the insurance premiums for those who choose to use these things that make up the coverage. Obviously, in a "pay out of pocket" system, it's irrelevant - if they can afford the healthcare, they can get it.
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r4X0r posted...

There's no such thing as "free health care."

Oh really?

DarkTransient posted...

In the case of drug addicts, drugs are on the black market and thus tax-free. In a regime which legalizes and taxes them, with those taxes going towards health care for users, I'd see no problem with them getting that care.

For alcoholics and smokers, those products should have an excise tax on them that's precisely the amount needed (or as close as reasonably possible - certianly not a case like in New Zealand where the tobacco tax is enough to cover tobacco-related health costs several times over) to cover the extra health care costs associated with those things.

Well will this deter people from panhandling, borrowing money from others, getting alcohol or cigerattes illegaly or finding some way to bypass the higher prices?
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BalloonBattle05 posted...

DarkTransient posted...

In the case of drug addicts, drugs are on the black market and thus tax-free. In a regime which legalizes and taxes them, with those taxes going towards health care for users, I'd see no problem with them getting that care.

For alcoholics and smokers, those products should have an excise tax on them that's precisely the amount needed (or as close as reasonably possible - certianly not a case like in New Zealand where the tobacco tax is enough to cover tobacco-related health costs several times over) to cover the extra health care costs associated with those things.

Well will this deter people from panhandling, borrowing money from others, getting alcohol or cigerattes illegaly or finding some way to bypass the higher prices?

If they panhandle / borrow money, those cigarette taxes are still getting paid.

If they steal it - well, I mean, the way our system works technically the taxes are paid there too, as the retailer would've paid them when buying the stock. The only part that isn't is the sales tax, which is puny compared to the excise taxes (especially on tobacco) here. And presumably, the taxes would be part of what their insurance then covers, if they have it.

The only way they can bypass the cost is to illegally import it (not easily done in NZ's case; our customs are pretty on to it and we're a couple of islands out in the middle of nowhere so the only way in is by air or by a VERY LONG boat ride - presumably from Australia, which is also pretty onto it with this kind of stuff, though the various Polynesian countries are also practical and those might be a bit more lax), or to grow / brew their own (which does happen and is officially legal; most smokers can't be bothered growing their own tobacco and often don't like the taste of homegrown so it doesn't really make a difference, while those who brew their own alcohol tend to be very responsible drinkers anyway in most cases and so don't incur much in the way of alcohol-related health costs).
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It should depend on how actively they are seeking help to change/fix their habits imo
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DarkTransient posted...

If they panhandle / borrow money, those cigarette taxes are still getting paid.

Are they techinically paying for the taxes?
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I do see it as fair that a smoker/druggie/alcoholic intentionally gets their health care delayed by a few minutes.
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Lost_All_Senses posted...

It should depend on how actively they are seeking help to change/fix their habits imo

I agree, but I guess some could claim to change themselves and not actually do it
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I get free health care. My medical card lets me go to the ER for free, I usually go there if I get sick or have a cold or whatever
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knuxnole posted...

I get free health care. My medical card lets me go to the ER for free, I usually go there if I get sick or have a cold or whatever

You don't get free health care. You get health care that other people have to pay for. It's not free, you're just not the one paying for it. Operating a medical facility, paying for medical supplies and compensating medical professionals costs money... it's not free.
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r4X0r posted...

knuxnole posted...

I get free health care. My medical card lets me go to the ER for free, I usually go there if I get sick or have a cold or whatever

You don't get free health care. You get health care that other people have to pay for. It's not free, you're just not the one paying for it. Operating a medical facility, paying for medical supplies and compensating medical professionals costs money... it's not free.

Its free for ME which is the main thing.

I dont care who pays for it, if someone else is paying, wonderful! Im always glad to take someone elses money, its basically how Ive been all my life anyway.

So thank you for paying for my ER visits :)
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knuxnole posted...

I get free health care. My medical card lets me go to the ER for free, I usually go there if I get sick or have a cold or whatever

Are you a smoker though?
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No
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knuxnole posted...

No

Does this topic apply to you then?
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Yes cause I support smokers for getting FREE health care!

They have the right to do so!

I get free health care from the ER ALL. THE. TIME.

They should too. Especially cause they can have worse diseases. I usually go if I have a head cold, a painful toenail, or a headache. But they could have like lung infections and throat closing.
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knuxnole posted...

r4X0r posted...

knuxnole posted...

I get free health care. My medical card lets me go to the ER for free, I usually go there if I get sick or have a cold or whatever

You don't get free health care. You get health care that other people have to pay for. It's not free, you're just not the one paying for it. Operating a medical facility, paying for medical supplies and compensating medical professionals costs money... it's not free.

Its free for ME which is the main thing.

I dont care who pays for it, if someone else is paying, wonderful! Im always glad to take someone elses money, its basically how Ive been all my life anyway.

So thank you for paying for my ER visits :)

Hurr imagine you two jokers thinking people don't pay for Medicare through each paycheck. Hell you've probably never gotten paychecks and thus you don't see "Medicare" section. Get a fucking job.
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knuxnole posted...

Yes cause I support smokers for getting FREE health care!

They have the right to do so!

I get free health care from the ER ALL. THE. TIME.

They should too. Especially cause they can have worse diseases. I usually go if I have a head cold, a painful toenail, or a headache. But they could have like lung infections and throat closing.

Well are your health issues from idiotic choices you make?
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BalloonBattle05 posted...

knuxnole posted...

Yes cause I support smokers for getting FREE health care!

They have the right to do so!

I get free health care from the ER ALL. THE. TIME.

They should too. Especially cause they can have worse diseases. I usually go if I have a head cold, a painful toenail, or a headache. But they could have like lung infections and throat closing.

Well are your health issues from idiotic choices you make?

It could be, if I ate some hot chicken and got diarrhea, it probably is my fault why I'm in the ER lmao
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ChainedRedone posted...

knuxnole posted...

r4X0r posted...

knuxnole posted...

I get free health care. My medical card lets me go to the ER for free, I usually go there if I get sick or have a cold or whatever

You don't get free health care. You get health care that other people have to pay for. It's not free, you're just not the one paying for it. Operating a medical facility, paying for medical supplies and compensating medical professionals costs money... it's not free.

Its free for ME which is the main thing.

I dont care who pays for it, if someone else is paying, wonderful! Im always glad to take someone elses money, its basically how Ive been all my life anyway.

So thank you for paying for my ER visits :)

Hurr imagine you two jokers thinking people don't pay for Medicare through each paycheck. Hell you've probably never gotten paychecks and thus you don't see "Medicare" section. Get a fucking job.

uhhh....who cares?

I get free health care for ME. That's all that matters. I don't need a job! No point haha. You can get one though if you choose to!
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knuxnole posted...

BalloonBattle05 posted...

knuxnole posted...

Yes cause I support smokers for getting FREE health care!

They have the right to do so!

I get free health care from the ER ALL. THE. TIME.

They should too. Especially cause they can have worse diseases. I usually go if I have a head cold, a painful toenail, or a headache. But they could have like lung infections and throat closing.

Well are your health issues from idiotic choices you make?

It could be, if I ate some hot chicken and got diarrhea, it probably is my fault why I'm in the ER lmao

True, but it's harder to prove
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Oh look a "It's not really free because taxes" argument. How woke we are.
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Good point, I could easily lie to the doctor and say I dunno how the diarrhea happens. I sometime lie about personal questions cause it's too personal.
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knuxnole posted...

Good point, I could easily lie to the doctor and say I dunno how the diarrhea happens. I sometime lie about personal questions cause it's too personal.

Well everyone has been educated enough about smoking that people who do it are likely being ignorant. Other things such as obesity are mostly accidental
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