Current Events > Police officer fired for not shooting black suspect wins $175,000

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_OujiDoza_
02/13/18 8:50:47 AM
#1:


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/12/stephen-mader-west-virginia-police-officer-settles-lawsuit?CMP=

A former police officer who alleged he was fired for not shooting a black suspect during a standoff has settled a wrongful termination suit with his former department for $175,000.

At the end of the day, Im happy to put this chapter of my life to bed, said Stephen Mader, a former officer in Weirton, West Virginia, who was also granted a pledge that his former employer would not prevent him from obtaining a new job in law enforcement elsewhere.

Mader was the first responding officer to a 2016 call involving RJ Williams, a 23-year-old black man believed to be suicidal. Mader, who is white, made the determination that Williams did not pose an immediate threat to him or fellow officers, even though he was holding a gun. Mader began trying to talk Williams down.

He wasnt angry, Mader previously told the Guardian. He wasnt aggressive, he didnt seem in position to want to use a gun against anybody. He never pointed it at me. I didnt perceive him as an imminent threat.

But amid Maders attempts to convince Williams to drop the weapon, two veteran officers arrived on the scene and, almost immediately, shot and killed Williams.

Mader, an Iraq and Afghanistan war veteran, received a termination letter 10 days later, which claimed that he failed to respond to the threat. The unfortunate reality of police work is that making any decision is better than making no decision at all, it read.

Mader disagreed and filed a suit alleging wrongful termination. No police officer should ever lose their job or have their name dragged through the mud for choosing to talk to, rather than shoot a fellow citizen, Maders attorney Timothy OBrien said after the settlement.

After the suit was filed, the city argued that Mader was actually terminated for two other prior incidents, and not for holding fire against Williams. This claim did not square with termination letter, however, which directly and repeatedly chastised Mader for not shooting.

The city said in a statement that the decision to settle was a call made by its insurance provider, and that it stood by its decision to fire Mader.

A call to the attorney representing Williams family was not immediately returned.


Good on him - should have gotten more tbh.
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DoubleDare
02/13/18 8:57:20 AM
#2:


All police officers should strive to be like this officer.

While there is scenerios they should shoot, it should only be an absolute last resort.
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GATTJT
02/13/18 8:59:55 AM
#3:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
But amid Maders attempts to convince Williams to drop the weapon, two veteran officers arrived on the scene and, almost immediately, shot and killed Williams.

This is fucked up.
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luigi13579
02/13/18 9:00:13 AM
#4:


wtf i love cops now

But amid Maders attempts to convince Williams to drop the weapon, two veteran officers arrived on the scene and, almost immediately, shot and killed Williams.

Oh. :(

DoubleDare posted...
All police officers should strive to be like this officer.

While there is scenerios they should shoot, it should only be an absolute last resort.

Yep.
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The Admiral
02/13/18 9:02:58 AM
#5:


The left-leaning Guardian leaves out a fairly important piece of additional context

City officials held a news conference shortly after the Post-Gazette story was published, saying the Williams shooting was not the only reason they fired Mader. A news release from the city described two other incidents that officials say led to Maders termination. One involved allegedly mishandling a death investigation by failing to determine that it was a homicide. The other involved allegedly searching a mans vehicle without probable cause or a search warrant and cursing at the mans wife. In the Williams shooting, officials said, Mader froze and did not communicate with the other officers at the scene.


The legitimacy of those other claims is likely why the settlement amount is relatively low. This doesn't appear to be some one-off example of "heroic" restraint, but rather a continuation of not following protocol.

Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.
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Turtlebread
02/13/18 9:07:06 AM
#6:


The Admiral posted...
Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.


this
a real police officer shoots on sight
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The Admiral
02/13/18 9:07:39 AM
#7:


Turtlebread posted...
The Admiral posted...
Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.


this
a real police officer shoots on sight


A good police officer communicates the situation to other officers so he doesn't put them in danger.
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voldothegr8
02/13/18 9:10:09 AM
#8:


The Admiral posted...
Turtlebread posted...
The Admiral posted...
Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.


this
a real police officer shoots on sight


A good police officer communicates the situation to other officers so he doesn't put them in danger.

I find it hard to believe he didn't say anything to the other officers who rolled up guns blazing.
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Howl
02/13/18 9:13:06 AM
#9:


The Admiral posted...
The left-leaning Guardian leaves out a fairly important piece of additional context

City officials held a news conference shortly after the Post-Gazette story was published, saying the Williams shooting was not the only reason they fired Mader. A news release from the city described two other incidents that officials say led to Maders termination. One involved allegedly mishandling a death investigation by failing to determine that it was a homicide. The other involved allegedly searching a mans vehicle without probable cause or a search warrant and cursing at the mans wife. In the Williams shooting, officials said, Mader froze and did not communicate with the other officers at the scene.


The legitimacy of those other claims is likely why the settlement amount is relatively low. This doesn't appear to be some one-off example of "heroic" restraint, but rather a continuation of not following protocol.

Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.


We can't have logical explanations to situations that don't support the narrative that cops are blood thirsty tyrants now though. That would just be inconvenient.
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_OujiDoza_
02/13/18 9:15:43 AM
#10:


The Admiral posted...
The left-leaning Guardian leaves out a fairly important piece of additional context

City officials held a news conference shortly after the Post-Gazette story was published, saying the Williams shooting was not the only reason they fired Mader. A news release from the city described two other incidents that officials say led to Maders termination. One involved allegedly mishandling a death investigation by failing to determine that it was a homicide. The other involved allegedly searching a mans vehicle without probable cause or a search warrant and cursing at the mans wife. In the Williams shooting, officials said, Mader froze and did not communicate with the other officers at the scene.


The legitimacy of those other claims is likely why the settlement amount is relatively low. This doesn't appear to be some one-off example of "heroic" restraint, but rather a continuation of not following protocol.

Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.

The fact that he didn't get fired over the other two alleged incidents kinda lends to him being scape-goated for this one, but of course you would feel this guy isn't cut out for law enforcement when other shootings/incidents you sided 100% with law enforcement...
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luigi13579
02/13/18 9:16:40 AM
#11:


The Admiral posted...
The left-leaning Guardian leaves out a fairly important piece of additional context

They touched on that, aside from the part saying he froze.

The initial article had more info:

Despite the fact that the termination letter focuses most of its attention on the decision not to shoot Williams, department officials subsequently told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette the incident was not a primary factor in his termination.

Officials cited two other incidents involving Mader. Only one is mentioned in the letter, in just two sentences.

By contrast, on the Williams shooting the letter reads that Mader should be dismissed from employment due to to negligence on his part during the incident that occurred on 6 May 2016, in which a fellow officer had to react and unfortunately take the life of the suspect.

After Maders termination, officials said Mader froze during the incident. They also called him a disgruntled employee and a bad cop.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/10/rj-williams-shooting-stephen-mader-fired-lawsuit

It's a bit of a "he said she said" type situation.
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Turtlebread
02/13/18 9:16:59 AM
#12:


what was the logical explanation for immediately shooting a suicidal dude I must have missed it
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_OujiDoza_
02/13/18 9:17:12 AM
#13:


Howl posted...
We can't have logical explanations to situations that don't support the narrative that cops are blood thirsty tyrants now though. That would just be inconvenient.

You find that to be a logical explanation? If what he did previously is true he shouldn't have been on the force ages ago, but they sure as hell kept him - this is what they release him over? That's shady as fuck. But you go ahead and think it's logical...
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NinjaBreakfast
02/13/18 9:18:11 AM
#14:


The Admiral posted...
The left-leaning Guardian leaves out a fairly important piece of additional context

City officials held a news conference shortly after the Post-Gazette story was published, saying the Williams shooting was not the only reason they fired Mader. A news release from the city described two other incidents that officials say led to Maders termination. One involved allegedly mishandling a death investigation by failing to determine that it was a homicide. The other involved allegedly searching a mans vehicle without probable cause or a search warrant and cursing at the mans wife. In the Williams shooting, officials said, Mader froze and did not communicate with the other officers at the scene.


The legitimacy of those other claims is likely why the settlement amount is relatively low. This doesn't appear to be some one-off example of "heroic" restraint, but rather a continuation of not following protocol.

Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.

Lol I love how you tried to frame this as a massive bunkerbuster of a point when it's...not?
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Sada_Pop
02/13/18 9:19:08 AM
#15:


Turtlebread posted...
what was the logical explanation for immediately shooting a suicidal dude I must have missed it


Because... Protocol?
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The Admiral
02/13/18 9:20:14 AM
#16:


Turtlebread posted...
what was the logical explanation for immediately shooting a suicidal dude I must have missed it


The two cops who arrived later didn't know the man was likely suicidal, because the cop who was fired failed to communicate that critical piece of information.
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scorpion41
02/13/18 9:25:38 AM
#17:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/12/an-officer-who-was-fired

Now according to this one posted by Antifar in another topic, Williams raised his weapon, which prompted the other officers to shoot. TCs article says they just rolled up and shot him.
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voldothegr8
02/13/18 9:26:14 AM
#18:


Turtlebread posted...
what was the logical explanation for immediately shooting a suicidal dude I must have missed it

From what I've gathered, the man was actually trying suicide by cop. This cop was talking him down, the others rolled in and granted the wish by shooting him down when he waved the gun in their direction.

The good cop here, a former Marine vet, says it comes down to training. The military, believe it or not, has stricter rules of engagement in a war zone than US cops have on the streets here, thus are trained to assess situations and act on them in a far better manner.
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GunmaN1905
02/13/18 9:26:14 AM
#19:


Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?
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Twin3Turbo
02/13/18 9:30:49 AM
#20:


The Admiral posted...
Turtlebread posted...
what was the logical explanation for immediately shooting a suicidal dude I must have missed it


The two cops who arrived later didn't know the man was likely suicidal, because the cop who was fired failed to communicate that critical piece of information.

It's not entirely clear but it kinda sounds like they rolled in there pretty quickly and shot the dude pretty quickly. If true, then he may not have necessarily had the time to do so. Also if true, it reflects worse on them, not him.
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voldothegr8
02/13/18 9:37:02 AM
#21:


The Admiral posted...
Nevertheless, I don't mind him getting this money, but he's not cut out for law enforcement.

BTW Addy you're completely backwards here. All these trigger happy cops are the ones not cut out for law enforcement. This man correctly assessed the situation and was almost successful deescalating it, we need more cops like him. He's also a former Marine, far more cut out for law enforcement than most.
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_OujiDoza_
02/13/18 10:02:03 AM
#22:


GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.
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The Admiral
02/13/18 10:26:13 AM
#23:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:32:42 AM
#24:


The Admiral posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW

its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.
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Ammonitida
02/13/18 10:35:24 AM
#25:


CookieMarvin posted...
The Admiral posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW

its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.


There's no such epidemic. Pure left-wing fantasy.
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The Admiral
02/13/18 10:35:52 AM
#26:


CookieMarvin posted...
The Admiral posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW

its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.


It's always race baiting when race is unrelated to the story.

Also, there is no epidemic of police killing specifically black people.
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voldothegr8
02/13/18 10:36:23 AM
#27:


CookieMarvin posted...
its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.

In this case there was a reason and it wasn't race, he wanted the cops to kill him and pointed a gun at them. He got his wish.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs where "suicide by cop" is a very viable thing.
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:36:55 AM
#28:


Ammonitida posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
The Admiral posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW

its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.


There's no such epidemic. Pure left-wing fantasy.

*sigh*

ok, buddy
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:39:13 AM
#29:


The Admiral posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
The Admiral posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW

its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.


It's always race baiting when race is unrelated to the story.

Also, there is no epidemic of police killing specifically black people.

thats one hell of a cop out
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The Admiral
02/13/18 10:42:33 AM
#30:


CookieMarvin posted...
The Admiral posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
The Admiral posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW

its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.


It's always race baiting when race is unrelated to the story.

Also, there is no epidemic of police killing specifically black people.

thats one hell of a cop out


I'm sorry if the facts don't support your feelings.
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:44:05 AM
#31:


Im sorry that you dislike minorities to the point that youre ok with cops killing them for shits n giggles
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Ammonitida
02/13/18 10:44:23 AM
#32:


CookieMarvin posted...
Ammonitida posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
The Admiral posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


You choosing a left-leaning source with a race baiting title doesn't absolve you. You could have picked a real source that didn't harp on his race in the title for shock value:

http://wapo.st/2o2BHmW

its generally advisable to leave race out of the title, but considering cops killing black men for no reason is virtually an epidemic in America, I reckon its probably pertinent. Saying that its race-baiting is just ignorant.


There's no such epidemic. Pure left-wing fantasy.

*sigh*

ok, buddy


Poster thinks a handful of cherry-picked cases by the far left news media (many of which were justified if you bothered to closely examine the circumstances) constitutes an "epidemic". sigh
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The Admiral
02/13/18 10:44:46 AM
#33:


CookieMarvin posted...
Im sorry that you dislike minorities to the point that youre ok with cops killing them for shits n giggles


Ah, the old "I can't make an intelligent rebuttal, so you're a racist" routine.

*yawn*
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:46:41 AM
#34:


oh yeah, youre a real bastion of intellectualism lmfao
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NinjaBreakfast
02/13/18 10:47:33 AM
#35:


Ammonitida posted...
many of which were justified if you bothered to closely examine the circumstances

Lol
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Ammonitida
02/13/18 10:49:08 AM
#36:


NinjaBreakfast posted...
Ammonitida posted...
many of which were justified if you bothered to closely examine the circumstances

Lol


Yep.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/17/us/tulsa-police-shooting-trial/index.html
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The Admiral
02/13/18 10:49:57 AM
#37:


CookieMarvin posted...
oh yeah, youre a real bastion of intellectualism lmfao


You're certainly making the case for me.

But just to interject some actual facts, the total number of unarmed black men killed by police in 2016 was...

Ready for it....

Sixteen

http://www.newsweek.com/police-killings-unarmed-black-men-538542

Yes, out of the tens of thousands of interactions police had with black people, 16 unarmed black men were killed over the span of an entire year. And this does not even mean those killings were unjustified, because often the suspect was assaulting the cop or trying to take his weapon. This is the epidemic you're so emotional about.

For comparison, there are 16 homicides committed by black gang members every two days in the U.S.
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:50:59 AM
#38:


not even bothering to read that, werent you just complaining about cherry picking? then you come in with a single link?
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The Admiral
02/13/18 10:51:36 AM
#39:


CookieMarvin posted...
not even bothering to read that, werent you just complaining about cherry picking? then you come in with a single link?


You're done, bro. Just take the L and stop humiliating yourself.
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:53:19 AM
#40:


ooh, throwing in gang violence statistics? thats totally not entirely transparent
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:53:44 AM
#41:


The Admiral posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
not even bothering to read that, werent you just complaining about cherry picking? then you come in with a single link?


You're done, bro. Just take the L and stop humiliating yourself.

that post wasnt at you
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GunmaN1905
02/13/18 10:55:27 AM
#42:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Why excatly do you have to point out that suspect was black?

You didn't click the article I see - that is the header of it, so fuck off.


I'm not an American and English isn't my first language, but from my understanding:

suspect - An individual suspicious of doing some criminal activity.
crime - an illegal action

Therefore, unless there are US laws stating some crimes are specifically tied to a given race, black suspect in the title is just a typical clickbait.
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Ammonitida
02/13/18 10:55:59 AM
#43:


CookieMarvin posted...
not even bothering to read that, werent you just complaining about cherry picking? then you come in with a single link?


I said many were justified, and I gave an example. Geez.
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 10:58:07 AM
#44:


Ammonitida posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
not even bothering to read that, werent you just complaining about cherry picking? then you come in with a single link?


I said many were justified, and I gave an example. Geez.

lmao
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_OujiDoza_
02/13/18 10:58:25 AM
#45:


The Admiral posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
not even bothering to read that, werent you just complaining about cherry picking? then you come in with a single link?


You're done, bro. Just take the L and stop humiliating yourself.

You point out crimes committed by black people more than almost anyone on this site - you haven't given an L of any kind - you've only reinforced that you keep the "black stats" locked and loaded for your rebuttal whenever necessary. We know who you are at this point, man.
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_OujiDoza_
02/13/18 11:00:33 AM
#46:


GunmaN1905 posted...
Therefore, unless there are US laws stating some crimes are specifically tied to a given race, black suspect in the title is just a typical clickbait.

English may not be your first language, but that has zero to do with why you're being slow right now.

I.COPIED.AND.PASTED.THE.HEADER.OF.THE.ACTUAL.ARTICLE.I.LINKED.

If the site itself is clickbait, that's their issue, not mine - it's not like I earn money from sharing the article, you bright shiny bulb.
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The Admiral
02/13/18 11:01:35 AM
#47:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
The Admiral posted...
CookieMarvin posted...
not even bothering to read that, werent you just complaining about cherry picking? then you come in with a single link?


You're done, bro. Just take the L and stop humiliating yourself.

You point out crimes committed by black people more than almost anyone on this site - you haven't given an L of any kind - you've only reinforced that you keep the "black stats" locked and loaded for your rebuttal whenever necessary. We know who you are at this point, man.


Yep, Im the guy who uses facts to destroy your racial oppression narrative. Get used to it.
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CookieMarvin
02/13/18 11:02:12 AM
#48:


oh my god, this guy lmfao
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GunmaN1905
02/13/18 11:03:05 AM
#49:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Therefore, unless there are US laws stating some crimes are specifically tied to a given race, black suspect in the title is just a typical clickbait.

English may not be your first language, but that has zero to do with why you're being slow right now.

I.COPIED.AND.PASTED.THE.HEADER.OF.THE.ACTUAL.ARTICLE.I.LINKED.

If the site itself is clickbait, that's their issue, not mine - it's not like I earn money from sharing the article, you bright shiny bulb.


It's still a clickbait, no need to get agitated.
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_OujiDoza_
02/13/18 11:09:54 AM
#50:


GunmaN1905 posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
GunmaN1905 posted...
Therefore, unless there are US laws stating some crimes are specifically tied to a given race, black suspect in the title is just a typical clickbait.

English may not be your first language, but that has zero to do with why you're being slow right now.

I.COPIED.AND.PASTED.THE.HEADER.OF.THE.ACTUAL.ARTICLE.I.LINKED.

If the site itself is clickbait, that's their issue, not mine - it's not like I earn money from sharing the article, you bright shiny bulb.


It's still a clickbait, no need to get agitated.

Grrrrroooooowwwwl
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