Current Events > In the Terminator universe, if the T-800 remains were needed to create skynet...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Then how was skynet created in the first place in the first movie? Is there an overall original timeline?
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Time travel, man.
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Stable time loop
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robert21 posted...

Then how was skynet created in the first place in the first movie? Is there an overall original timeline?

Yes, and in that timeline John Connor's father was not Kyle Reese.
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JustMonika posted...

Stable time loop

There is no loop, just multiverse.
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Terminator 1 is the original timeline. It's a timeloop.

John Connor is ready for Judgment Day because Skynet went back to kill him.
John Connor doesn't exist without time travel. Neither does Skynet. That's the irony of the series.
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It makes more sense that there were multiple timelines like Genisys was hinting at.

But, that wasn't the intention when they wrote it and it just doesn't make sense cause it's a movie.
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It's a Bootstraps Paradox to some extent
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Originally John Connor and Skynet had nothing to do with the Terminator going back in time. Skynet creating itself and John Connor is a product of time travel highjinks

The idea that there *had* to be a timeloop (as presented in Terminator 1) went out the window when Terminator 3 established that John Connor and Skynet were fated to fight each other. No matter what happens, a John Connor will be born and a Skynet will be created.
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50Blessings posted...

Originally John Connor and Skynet had nothing to do with the Terminator going back in time. Skynet creating itself and John Connor is a product of time travel highjinks

The idea that there *had* to be a timeloop (as presented in Terminator 1) went out the window when Terminator 3 established that John Connor and Skynet were fated to fight each other. No matter what happens, a John Connor will be born and a Skynet will be created.

That whole idea in Terminator 3 that it was inevitable was dumb
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50Blessings posted...

It makes more sense that there were multiple timelines like Genisys was hinting at.

But, that wasn't the intention when they wrote it and it just doesn't make sense cause it's a movie.

It was outright stated in the TV show.
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robert21 posted...

That whole idea in Terminator 3 that it was inevitable was dumb

I don't argue that, but that was clearly the direction they were heading with it. Even as far as Terminator 2 bringing up the idea that Judgement Day could be stopped.
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50Blessings posted...

Originally John Connor and Skynet had nothing to do with the Terminator going back in time. Skynet creating itself and John Connor is a product of time travel highjinks

The idea that there *had* to be a timeloop (as presented in Terminator 1) went out the window when Terminator 3 established that John Connor and Skynet were fated to fight each other. No matter what happens, a John Connor will be born and a Skynet will be created.

2 threw that out.

3 brought the timeloop back. The same timeloop is destined to happen but it can happen differently.

Genesys is incomplete so that never is going to go anywhere.
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CarlGrimes posted...

It was outright stated in the TV show.

And the TV show was written like 20 years after the original movie...
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Darmik posted...

3 brought the timeloop back. The same timeloop is destined to happen but it can happen differently.

It doesn't bring the timeloop back because the timeloop has been completely changed due to Judgement Day's date being extended.

The event still happening doesn't re-create the timeloop because the time of the event changing could cause any number of variations to happen in the timeline.

The only thing set in stone is that Skynet and John Connor (not even, it could just be *a* Connor really) are destined to go to war with each other.

It's the problem with making so many fucking changes and retcons to the original story, there's no way for there to be a stable timeloop with the way they went with the story in the sequels.
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what? Arnold Swartzaneggar is skynet?

L0Z posted...

what? Arnold Swartzaneggar is skynet?

he's also on youtube ventrilo videos.
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1 and 2 are the only ones that matter, anyway

everything else is just an expensive fanfic
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50Blessings posted...

Darmik posted...

3 brought the timeloop back. The same timeloop is destined to happen but it can happen differently.

It doesn't bring the timeloop back because the timeloop has been completely changed due to Judgement Day's date being extended.

The event still happening doesn't re-create the timeloop because the time of the event changing could cause any number of variations to happen in the timeline.

The only thing set in stone is that Skynet and John Connor (not even, it could just be *a* Connor really) are destined to go to war with each other.

It's the problem with making so many fucking changes and retcons to the original story, there's no way for there to be a stable timeloop with the way they went with the story in the sequels.

I agree with you. The franchise is a mess at this point.

But you can argue that the timeloop has been restored since it's inevitable in the T3 future that John Connor will send Kyle Reese back to stop the T-800. That's the only thing that truly needs to happen to keep the time loop that creates Connor and Skynet.
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I always find it funny that people get upset at the idea that there *wasn't* a time loop, and then say that there is only T1 and T2 when T2 is the one that threw the idea of a stable timeloop out the window.

T2 threw timeloop out the window.

T3 brought in the concept of fate.

Genysis was going to bring in the concept of different timelines/universes.

Like, all of it is stupid as fuck but the idea of a stable time loop was thrown out the window very early. None of it matters anyways cause it's all gonna get rebooted in a few years when Cameron gets control back.

It was once an ontological paradox, but it is now alternate realities that resulted from the first arrival of Arnold in T1.
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Guerrilla Soldier posted...

1 and 2 are the only ones that matter, anyway

everything else is just an expensive fanfic

Hey, the TV show turned out pretty good.
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I'm sure the next Terminator movie that James Cameron is probably using to fund his cocaine habit will clear everything up.
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

I always find it funny that people get upset at the idea that there *wasn't* a time loop, and then say that there is only T1 and T2 when T2 is the one that threw the idea of a stable timeloop out the window.

T2 threw timeloop out the window.

That's why I say that T2 is a great movie but a bad sequel.
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When I first saw the trailers for Salvation, I thought a secondary antagonist was being introduced from a parallel universe when Connor said "This is not the enemy my mother warned us about"

Ruvan22 posted...

When I first saw the trailers for Salvation, I thought a secondary antagonist was being introduced from a parallel universe when Connor said "This is not the enemy my mother warned us about"

Yea, i rememebr that. Not sure what other enemy that would have been?
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robert21 posted...

Ruvan22 posted...

When I first saw the trailers for Salvation, I thought a secondary antagonist was being introduced from a parallel universe when Connor said "This is not the enemy my mother warned us about"

Yea, i rememebr that. Not sure what other enemy that would have been?

Something much worse than Skynet.

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pegusus123456 posted...

robert21 posted...

Ruvan22 posted...

When I first saw the trailers for Salvation, I thought a secondary antagonist was being introduced from a parallel universe when Connor said "This is not the enemy my mother warned us about"

Yea, i rememebr that. Not sure what other enemy that would have been?

Something much worse than Skynet.

Eh
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robert21 posted...

Eh

first of all how dare you
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pegusus123456 posted...

robert21 posted...

Ruvan22 posted...

When I first saw the trailers for Salvation, I thought a secondary antagonist was being introduced from a parallel universe when Connor said "This is not the enemy my mother warned us about"

Yea, i rememebr that. Not sure what other enemy that would have been?

Something much worse than Skynet.

Questionmarktarius posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

robert21 posted...

Ruvan22 posted...

When I first saw the trailers for Salvation, I thought a secondary antagonist was being introduced from a parallel universe when Connor said "This is not the enemy my mother warned us about"

Yea, i rememebr that. Not sure what other enemy that would have been?

Something much worse than Skynet.

Now that's scary
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See, when you ask questions like this, it leads to movies with Christian Bale, and Emilia Clarke in leading roles.
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T1
Cyberdyne Systems creates Skynet and activates it on August 4, 1997. It becomes self-aware and on August 29th it launches nuclear missiles at Russia to entice a counter-attack. Cyberdyne in a panic attempts to shut Skynet down but it retaliates and Judgment Day occurs with more nuclear missiles being sent across the globe. Skynet later creates Terminators to seek and destroy the remaining human populace.

Some time later a man named John Connor forms a resistance movement to counter Skynet. Terminator design continues to improve resulting in the Model 101 Series T-800. Skynet also discovers time travel and in 2029 after sensing defeat sends a T-800 back to May 12, 1984 to assassinate Sarah Conner so as to prevent John Conner's birth. The resistance learns of this and Kyle Reese is sent back to save her.

During this time John's conception takes place. Kyle is unfortunately killed, but Sarah finishes off the Terminator.

John is born on February 28, 1985.

A computer chip and arm are left behind. The United States government acquires these components and creates Cyberdyne Systems to study them. In 1994 Miles Dyson, the director of Special Projects reverse engineers the parts and creates a neural net microprocessor.

T2
The now advanced Skynet of the future sends their prototype T-1000 back to 1995 to assassinate John himself. The resistance captures a T-800, reprograms it, and sends it back to help John.

Sarah has been incarcerated in a mental hospital for a few years after trying to blow up a computer factory. Fearing the T-1000 will kill her and take her form, John and the T-800 rescue Sarah.

Sarah learns of Miles Dyson and goes to assassinate him herself. John stops her and the T-800 is revealed to Miles. They go to Cyberdyne to destroy all records, along with the Terminator arm and CPU. Miles is killed during the assault. Ultimately the T-1000 is destroyed falling into a vat of molten steel. The T-800 sacrifices itself to destroy it's own components. They are unaware however that the Skynet Funding Bill was already passed. Judgment Day has only been postponed.

T3
Skynet sends the T-X to July 25, 2004 to wipe out the lieutenants of the resistance. Coming to an animal hospital to kill Katherine Brewster the T-X discovers John Connor. A T-850 arrives to save John and Kate. It reveals John's past events only set back Skynet. Judgment Day is inevitable, and will take place later that evening. It is also revealed that John and Kate are married in the future, and that it successfully killed John in 2032 before being captured, reprogrammed, and sent back by Kate to stop the T-X.

They travel to Cyber Research Systems to stop Kate's father Lieutenant General Robert Brewster from activating Skynet. They are too late however and Skynet takes over. The T-X mortally wounds Robert, and he tells Kate and John to head for the Crystal Peak mountain base which they believe to be the Skynet central core. The T-X and T-850 both pursue and are destroyed in a hydrogen fuel cell explosion. John and Kate discover what Crystal Peak is and receive a transmission shortly before Skynet unleashes it's nuclear force at 6:18pm.
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robert21 posted...

Ruvan22 posted...

When I first saw the trailers for Salvation, I thought a secondary antagonist was being introduced from a parallel universe when Connor said "This is not the enemy my mother warned us about"

Yea, i rememebr that. Not sure what other enemy that would have been?

I had wondered that too before seeing the movie and realizing they had altered the timeline, which is why events were occurring different from what S Connor had passed on.

My initial thoughts had been that in the parallel universe Skynet had created something before terminators, and whatever that was had crossed into our universe (or been created here as a result of the delay in Judgement Day)