Current Events > How does Christianity explain the fact that they weren't the first religion?

(+) Yeah! (+)

When God created man in his image it is in reference to the spirit. It has nothing to do with the physical.

Asherlee10 posted...

I don't agree there are objective reasons. And again, I am simply stating that I don't find it very appealing or a good thing that a Maker has human-like preferences.

<_< Well the thing about objective reasons is that they're still there if you don't agree with them lol.

I mean you can't deny that humans are by far the smartest creatures on the planet, with the deepest capacity for emotion / love / etc. God loves animals in the way we'd love robots that were partially animated. Whereas he loves us the way we love other humans. It's just natural.
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Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

If humans are exactly like the Maker then we are all gods. If that is not the case, then we can assume that humans are not exactly like the Maker and therefore projecting human-based emotions, beliefs, etc. onto the Maker degrades its own nature and existence as a deity.

That is just how I view it.

What's wrong with us being gods? Bible says as much actually.

I don't follow what you are conveying.

well if you go by the biblical narrative, humans were created to ultimately rule the universe alongside jesus as co-heirs. as deities.
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Something I've tried to figure out but never got a real answer. Do I get to chose if I go to heaven or hell?

Option 1: I can't chose because God's already decided for me because he controls everything. So nothing I can do or say will change that.

Option 2: I can make my own choice. And if I decide I want to go to hell then there's nothing he can do to stop me.

Additional question: If it's up to me where I go, and I decide I want to go to hell. And God is fine with my choice (willingly or not, doesn't matter for this question), why do Christians feel the need to try and convince me to "listen to God" and to go to heaven? If I want to go to hell and God's fine with my choice too then wouldn't trying to convince me otherwise be going against God and I's choice of where I'm going?

Inb4mysteriouswaysanswer
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Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

If humans are exactly like the Maker then we are all gods. If that is not the case, then we can assume that humans are not exactly like the Maker and therefore projecting human-based emotions, beliefs, etc. onto the Maker degrades its own nature and existence as a deity.

That is just how I view it.

What's wrong with us being gods? Bible says as much actually.

I don't follow what you are conveying.

I just think it's that us humans must know our place.

If I were a video game creator, and made a video character like myself, giving him the ability to run, swim, and speak.... but the creation was also unlike myself in that say I made the creation unable to get tired from running. This is unlike myself, who can get tired from running. Likeness does not mean sameness.

The book of Isaiah chap. 55 : 8-9 states(new king James version)

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, said the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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Asherlee10 posted...

I'll be honest, the last few times I've seen you reference something being objective it hasn't been correct. I'm not immediately inclined to think that you are going to provide correct objective reasons in this scenario.

This is literally "no u" in response to whether or not it's objectively the fact that humans are the apex predator, the smartest, the most emotional, etc. lmao

Asherlee10 posted...

Just because we are smart doesn't mean we are more deserving of anything. At least that's how I think.

So you don't understand why a thinking emotional being would love other thinking emotional beings more than it would love a chicken? lmao

Asherlee10 posted...

Okay, that's fine. And again it brings me back to my original remark that I find that sad and kind of terrible.

lol ok well
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

The same way that a software engineer might build a lot of videogames but consider one his pride and joy and magnum opus. It's subjective. And in the case of humans, maybe he made us to be special - IE to have feelings, emotions, intellect, self awareness, etc. It's his prerogative who he favors.

Other creatures are better at flying and swimming with their own physical appendages, but we're the top of the food chain fam. We are objectively the apex predator.

That honestly seems to make god far more human than he is. He should be devoid of such ego surely?
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SkittyOnWailord posted...

Something I've tried to figure out but never got a real answer. Do I get to chose if I go to heaven or hell?

Option 1: I can't chose because God's already decided for me because he controls everything. So nothing I can do or say will change that.

Option 2: I can make my own choice. And if I decide I want to go to hell then there's nothing he can do to stop me.

Additional question: If it's up to me where I go, and I decide I want to go to hell. And God is fine with my choice (willingly or not, doesn't matter for this question), why do Christians feel the need to try and convince me to "listen to God" and to go to heaven? If I want to go to hell and God's fine with my choice too then wouldn't trying to convince me otherwise be going against God and I's choice of where I'm going?

Inb4mysteriouswaysanswer

If God wants you, why would he be fine with your choice?

You see, God created hell and the lake of fire for demons . You'll notice that a lot of people reject the gospel......and if you were ever in the lake of fire, why would you want to be there? Wouldn't you want to be saved from that place? There's spirits at work behind the scenes, the holy spirit drawing people to Jesus Christ and eternal life, and evil spirits attempting to get people to join them in hell.
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are you one of those people that would rather save a puppy over baby?
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Asherlee10 posted...

I am open to hearing why humans should objectively be placed in a higher position above everything else in the universe. I'm just saying, I'm not going to keep my hopes up about that because I've seen you misuse the word 'objective' several times the last few days.

The Bible doesn't talk about the universe. It talks about earth. Humans value other humans more than they value animals, most of the time. The reasons for that are numerous, and a lot of them have to do with the fact that other humans love us back in the way we love them.

Asherlee10 posted...

The problem I have with this sentence is you've again degraded a Maker or God into human terms. Our beliefs, behaviors, etc are all a part of being human. We are not perfect beings. I'm not sure why you keep suggesting that a god = humans in this case.

Why is it only humans that can have beliefs or emotions? Why is it degrading to a maker to have beliefs and emotions?
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Funkydog posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

The same way that a software engineer might build a lot of videogames but consider one his pride and joy and magnum opus. It's subjective. And in the case of humans, maybe he made us to be special - IE to have feelings, emotions, intellect, self awareness, etc. It's his prerogative who he favors.

Other creatures are better at flying and swimming with their own physical appendages, but we're the top of the food chain fam. We are objectively the apex predator.

That honestly seems to make god far more human than he is. He should be devoid of such ego surely?

How do you know? How are you measuring that? Let's say we become deities through science and technology. Surely we'd still have emotions, feelings, people we love, etc.
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search your feelings
you know human life is above everything else

its okay to feel that way
its the right way
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Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

I am open to hearing why humans should objectively be placed in a higher position above everything else in the universe. I'm just saying, I'm not going to keep my hopes up about that because I've seen you misuse the word 'objective' several times the last few days.

The Bible doesn't talk about the universe. It talks about earth. Humans value other humans more than they value animals, most of the time. The reasons for that are numerous, and a lot of them have to do with the fact that other humans love us back in the way we love them.

Asherlee10 posted...

The problem I have with this sentence is you've again degraded a Maker or God into human terms. Our beliefs, behaviors, etc are all a part of being human. We are not perfect beings. I'm not sure why you keep suggesting that a god = humans in this case.

Why is it only humans that can have beliefs or emotions? Why is it degrading to a maker to have beliefs and emotions?

Re: Bible and the Universe -- I'm not being snarky, but where are the objectively good reasons we were discussing?

Re: Gods and Beliefs -- Because if we are to assume that a Maker who is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. (whatever deistic characteristics it should have), it having human-like preferences and emotions degrades those characteristics and makes it less of a god and more human.

You keep assuming that having preferences and emotions is a human thing, and that a Maker who is Asherlee's definition of all-powerful and Asherlee's definition of all-knowing should never have any of those things. That's your own invented character of who a deity ought to be though. Maybe your understanding of what it "ought" to be isn't complete or accurate.

As for objective reasons - humans have the greatest capacity for self-awareness, love, selflessness, intellect, etc, than any other life form on earth. Would you love a robot more than a synthetically-created sentient love form? Would you love them equally? No, you'd probably love the latter more. A chicken is closer to a robot than to a synthetic sentient life form that loves you back.
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armandro posted...

search your feelings
you know human life is above everything else

its okay to feel that way
its the right way

omg how could you be such a SPECIESIST!!!!1111111
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This topic ends up being like every other topic similar to it:

Person A asks a question about the logic ultimately involved in religion.

Person B - Z, unable to actually provide anything really nuanced, just drops a barrage of bible verses that only mean whatever the interpreter thinks it means to them.

And the green grass grows all around, all around.
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Asherlee10 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

I am open to hearing why humans should objectively be placed in a higher position above everything else in the universe. I'm just saying, I'm not going to keep my hopes up about that because I've seen you misuse the word 'objective' several times the last few days.

The Bible doesn't talk about the universe. It talks about earth. Humans value other humans more than they value animals, most of the time. The reasons for that are numerous, and a lot of them have to do with the fact that other humans love us back in the way we love them.

Asherlee10 posted...

The problem I have with this sentence is you've again degraded a Maker or God into human terms. Our beliefs, behaviors, etc are all a part of being human. We are not perfect beings. I'm not sure why you keep suggesting that a god = humans in this case.

Why is it only humans that can have beliefs or emotions? Why is it degrading to a maker to have beliefs and emotions?

Re: Bible and the Universe -- I'm not being snarky, but where are the objectively good reasons we were discussing?

Re: Gods and Beliefs -- Because if we are to assume that a Maker who is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. (whatever deistic characteristics it should have), it having human-like preferences and emotions degrades those characteristics and makes it less of a god and more human.

How? We didn't make him. He made us. So he can give us some of his characteristics, such as being able to feel jealousy, anger, etc. Those are things he created US to have. Doesn't make God any less God at all.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

God created us to love him, and you can't have real love without free will. God had to create an imperfect world to satisfy his desire to love and be loved.

What is "real love" and why do you need "free will" in order for it to be possible?

And assuming free will is necessary, why does possessing free will require that humans be able to do "evil/wrong"?

The kind of love I'm referring to isn't a special feeling, it's a genuine willingness to do what is right for someone else; not necessarily what makes them happy, but what is good and wholesome for them. Love is patient, kind, selfless, forgiving, merciful, meek, considerate, honest, faithful, hopeful, and enduring.

Free will is necessary for genuine love to exist because the act of loving someone requires just that; an act. Or really, a set of actions over an indefinite period of time. To love someone is to manifest all the things I described above because you want to, not because someone told you that you had to, or because someone forced you to.

Free will as I'm referring to it is the potential to do wrong. If you were always forced to do the right thing by God's standards, you would be exhibiting the effects of love, but you would not actually be practicing real love, because it would not exist by your choice.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

This topic ends up being like every other topic similar to it:

Person A asks a question about the logic ultimately involved in religion.

Person B - Z, unable to actually provide anything really nuanced, just drops a barrage of bible verses that only mean whatever the interpreter thinks it means to them.

And the green grass grows all around, all around.

no wonder i have you tagged as "illiterate"
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

How do you know? How are you measuring that? Let's say we become deities through science and technology. Surely we'd still have emotions, feelings, people we love, etc.

It might make us deities of a sort, but not an all loving one as god is supposed to be, no?

Simply favouring one is showing a degree of pride and selfishness. Not necessarily bad mind, but not a trait of something as how Christians define god
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

no wonder i have you tagged as "illiterate"

You have damaged me to my CORE - my HEART doth BLEED.
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Funkydog posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

How do you know? How are you measuring that? Let's say we become deities through science and technology. Surely we'd still have emotions, feelings, people we love, etc.

It might make us deities of a sort, but not an all loving one as god is supposed to be, no?

Simply favouring one is showing a degree of pride and selfishness. Not necessarily bad mind, but not a trait of something as how Christians define god

So if God loves us it's...pride and selfishness? because he loves us more than he loves chickens or shrimp?
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Just let 'em have their easy 500.

I think it's funny how Christians are all like

"God is all loving, Satan is evil!"

But like, God flooded the world, and sends people to hell, and Satan gave us free will and shit

Idk, tbh. Seems like Satan cares more about us than god does
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

This topic ends up being like every other topic similar to it:

Person A asks a question about the logic ultimately involved in religion.

Person B - Z, unable to actually provide anything really nuanced, just drops a barrage of bible verses that only mean whatever the interpreter thinks it means to them.

And the green grass grows all around, all around.

point out a specific example in this topic where that happened
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Asherlee10 posted...

KILBOTz posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

First, I think a god being speciest is enough to make it terrible. But, I'll answer further. If the Christian God basically says "fuck everyone else who isn't human. I really only care about what they are doing, everything and everyone else is second fiddle." -- then that's pretty sad and terrible. I would like to think that if there is a Maker out there, that it would actually be all-loving and not be human-centric.

I don't really get this nit, seems a bit silly to me.

I build stuff and am handy. The amount of work and effort I have put into my house, it is far far far more important than a random bowl I made. It's not that the bowl is completely insignificant, but I have my house insured specifically, not my bowl.

Add in the whole higher thought thing.

I can get a lot of reasons to dislike christianity and organized religion in general, this just feels like grasping at straws for finding something to be angry about.

I think the problem with your example is your comparing a crafted bowl to living beings.

It doesn't sit well with me that if we have a Maker and it prefers or loves humans over everything else it created, I find that kind of sad. It feels like a projection of humans onto a god, not the other way around. In a way, I think it almost degrades the deity to a lesser being if it's so human-centric. It doesn't make sense in my mind that such a powerful being would have a favorite species. That's a human characteristic.

Conversely it seemed to me like your concern was projected your morals onto what would be a far superior being beyond our realm of understanding.
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gonna have to agree with KILBOTz
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Funkydog posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

How do you know? How are you measuring that? Let's say we become deities through science and technology. Surely we'd still have emotions, feelings, people we love, etc.

It might make us deities of a sort, but not an all loving one as god is supposed to be, no?

Simply favouring one is showing a degree of pride and selfishness. Not necessarily bad mind, but not a trait of something as how Christians define god

So if God loves us it's...pride and selfishness? because he loves us more than he loves chickens or shrimp?

If he believes his creation is better than anything or anyone elses, that is indeed pride

An omniscient/omnipotent being wouldnt even be able to display any sort of emotions at all though, so the argument of there being a god actually destroys itself before I'm even able to put his flaws into an argument

My job is done for me
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i don't get how a creator loving one creation over the other is bad

dont you guys draw?

at first you draw something crappy and you like it
but then you draw something better and you know its better and you love it more

idk
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armandro posted...

i don't get how a creator loving one creation over the other is bad

dont you guys draw?

at first you draw something crappy and you like it
but then you draw something better and you know its better and you love it more

idk

It's not bad if that creator is believed to be a flawed being

But he literally can't love anything if he is omnipotent/omniscient
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armandro posted...

point out a specific example in this topic where that happened

Sure, I'll sift through 200+ posts to satisfy your request - wait right there.
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armandro posted...

i don't get how a creator loving one creation over the other is bad

dont you guys draw?

at first you draw something crappy and you like it
but then you draw something better and you know its better and you love it more

idk

omggggg how can you be such a DRAWINGIST!!!!111111
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

point out a specific example in this topic where that happened

Sure, I'll sift through 200+ posts to satisfy your request - wait right there.

oh so fluffy was right
you dont read
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

So if God loves us it's...pride and selfishness? because he loves us more than he loves chickens or shrimp?

Yes?

That's what pride is.

I'm not saying it is bad or good. Just that he is prideful as a result.
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armandro posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

point out a specific example in this topic where that happened

Sure, I'll sift through 200+ posts to satisfy your request - wait right there.

oh so fluffy was right
you dont read

I do, but I'll admit I haven't read the ENTIRE thread, only bits & pieces.
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Funkydog posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

So if God loves us it's...pride and selfishness? because he loves us more than he loves chickens or shrimp?

Yes?

That's what pride is.

I'm not saying it is bad or good. Just that he is prideful as a result.

no offense, but that is the stupidest and most malformed definition of "pride" that I've ever seen, concocted just to try to make a point

*topic list*
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

point out a specific example in this topic where that happened

Sure, I'll sift through 200+ posts to satisfy your request - wait right there.

oh so fluffy was right
you dont read

I do, but I'll admit I haven't read the ENTIRE thread, only bits & pieces.

so surely you should've seen some examples that led you to make your post in the first place

examples that you could've easily copied/pasted when armandro asked
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Samurontai posted...

I think it's funny how Christians are all like

"God is all loving, Satan is evil!"

But like, God flooded the world, and sends people to hell, and Satan gave us free will and shit

Idk, tbh. Seems like Satan cares more about us than god does

God gave you free will. Why do you think this is a gift of Satan?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

point out a specific example in this topic where that happened

Sure, I'll sift through 200+ posts to satisfy your request - wait right there.

oh so fluffy was right
you dont read

I do, but I'll admit I haven't read the ENTIRE thread, only bits & pieces.

so surely you should've seen some examples that led you to make your post in the first place

examples that you could've easily copied/pasted when armandro asked

Not exactly true. I skim through topics like these - I don't pay attention to post #s and that sort of thing unless I plan to directly respond to a specific post.

I don't spend as much time on that sort of thing like someone like yourself would.
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_OujiDoza_ posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

_OujiDoza_ posted...

armandro posted...

point out a specific example in this topic where that happened

Sure, I'll sift through 200+ posts to satisfy your request - wait right there.

oh so fluffy was right
you dont read

I do, but I'll admit I haven't read the ENTIRE thread, only bits & pieces.

so surely you should've seen some examples that led you to make your post in the first place

examples that you could've easily copied/pasted when armandro asked

Not exactly true. I skim through topics like these - I don't pay attention to post #s and that sort of thing unless I plan to directly respond to a specific post.

I don't spend as much time on that sort of thing like someone like yourself would.

well maybe it takes you a really long time to read stuff but that doesn't mean it takes everyone else a long time to read stuff
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

*topic list*

Yet you immediately post after.

Besides, how is it not pride?
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C7D posted...

Samurontai posted...

I think it's funny how Christians are all like

"God is all loving, Satan is evil!"

But like, God flooded the world, and sends people to hell, and Satan gave us free will and shit

Idk, tbh. Seems like Satan cares more about us than god does

God gave you free will. Why do you think this is a gift of Satan?

Gods version of free will isn't actual free will

"Do this or you burn in hell for all eternity, btw that's a choice I'm letting you have" isn't true free will. There's a reason why if you're forced to do something with a gun to your head, it's considered to be done against your will

Satan showed us what true will was (if you believe in that nonsense) by basically telling us to go "fuck god" and eat the Apple. Satan is the true practitioner of giving humans the right to choose
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Funkydog posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

*topic list*

Yet you immediately post after.

Besides, how is it not pride?

I did post afterwards because after posting it takes you back to the bottom of the page, where I saw his post. So I decided to continue. But seriously, how IS it pride in the first place? lmao jesus man, come on. Just concede the point and make a different argument. Surely you've gotta realize you're just grasping now. <_<
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

well maybe it takes you a really long time to read stuff but that doesn't mean it takes everyone else a long time to read stuff

Annnnd you just proved that YOU don't read well.

_OujiDoza_ posted...

Not exactly true. I skim through topics like these -

Skimming through = taking a long time to read for you?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

I did post afterwards because after posting it takes you back to the bottom of the page, where I saw his post. So I decided to continue. But seriously, how IS it pride in the first place? lmao jesus man, come on. Just concede the point and make a different argument. Surely you've gotta realize you're just grasping now. <_<

Because it is the definition of being proud? Being prideful isn't always bad, but it is a trait god supposedly doesn't have.

How can someone who favours one creation over another not be proud of it?
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