Current Events > Is the character of Apu (Simpsons) offensive?

(+) Yeah! (+)

SJW, shut the fuck up
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I didn't realize there was actually a documentary about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzvEqBvkP8
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Here's an interview with him:

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/17/564936511/in-the-problem-with-apu-hari-kondabolu-discusses-south-asian-representation



KONDABOLU: I think they all dealt with being narrowly seen. As actors, I mean, there's a lot of typecasting, right? And actors are important in this story because they're the ones, especially in minority communities, that represent the whole. So all of a sudden they're being forced to represent, you know, their community in ways that they wouldn't agree with. And even when they were asked to do accents - you know, like, I was - I talked to Aasif Mandvi, who was the first South Asian correspondent on "The Daily Show." And it's like, you would have something that was very specific to a certain region of South Asia or India, and the casting directors, who were not South Asian, generally white, would be like, yeah, but can you do the Apu voice? And that's very upsetting.

KONDABOLU: I think something can be funny and it's not necessarily right. Like, I find Apu funny. He's a really funny character. But he's based on this faulty foundation of, like, a caricature. So, you know, fundamentally everything that he's going to do is based on a caricature. And that's weird. Like, this whole character is what white writers thought of us 30 years ago, thought of our community. This isn't how we represent ourselves. This is how they view us. And that's a hell of a thing.
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The Admiral posted...

I didn't realize there was actually a documentary about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzvEqBvkP8

Yes, that's what caused the discussion about Apu in the media lately.
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Maybe to bitch ass bitches.
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WaffIeElite posted...

Maybe to bitch ass bitches.

How would you respond to the filmmaker?

YoshitoKikuchi posted...

Here's an interview with him:

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/17/564936511/in-the-problem-with-apu-hari-kondabolu-discusses-south-asian-representation



KONDABOLU: I think they all dealt with being narrowly seen. As actors, I mean, there's a lot of typecasting, right? And actors are important in this story because they're the ones, especially in minority communities, that represent the whole. So all of a sudden they're being forced to represent, you know, their community in ways that they wouldn't agree with. And even when they were asked to do accents - you know, like, I was - I talked to Aasif Mandvi, who was the first South Asian correspondent on "The Daily Show." And it's like, you would have something that was very specific to a certain region of South Asia or India, and the casting directors, who were not South Asian, generally white, would be like, yeah, but can you do the Apu voice? And that's very upsetting.

KONDABOLU: I think something can be funny and it's not necessarily right. Like, I find Apu funny. He's a really funny character. But he's based on this faulty foundation of, like, a caricature. So, you know, fundamentally everything that he's going to do is based on a caricature. And that's weird. Like, this whole character is what white writers thought of us 30 years ago, thought of our community. This isn't how we represent ourselves. This is how they view us. And that's a hell of a thing.

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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

Remember also that many people have little interaction with certain groups or types of people, so media portrayal will be the source of their knowledge/perspective on them.

Yet the solution isn't to blame the character when we should be asking why people take poorly written TV as lessons of reality, let alone something designed to be satire of many things. We shouldn't judge Indians based on Apu anymore than we should judge our ability to survive falling down a gorge by Homer's.
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JustMyOpinion posted...

You made the right move deleting your post, Eston.

I could already see the 3 hour argument on the horizon, didn't feel like doing that today >_>
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lightwarrior78 posted...

YoshitoKikuchi posted...

Remember also that many people have little interaction with certain groups or types of people, so media portrayal will be the source of their knowledge/perspective on them.

Yet the solution isn't to blame the character when we should be asking why people take poorly written TV as lessons of reality, let alone something designed to be satire of many things. We shouldn't judge Indians based on Apu anymore than we should judge our ability to survive falling down a gorge by Homer's.

If you live in an area that has no Indian people and you've never interacted with one, chances are you're going to formulate your views based upon how you've seen them portrayed on TV or in movies. Not saying that it's a great way of developing one's viewpoints, but it does seem to be the case in many instances.
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YoshitoKikuchi posted...

lightwarrior78 posted...

YoshitoKikuchi posted...

Remember also that many people have little interaction with certain groups or types of people, so media portrayal will be the source of their knowledge/perspective on them.

Yet the solution isn't to blame the character when we should be asking why people take poorly written TV as lessons of reality, let alone something designed to be satire of many things. We shouldn't judge Indians based on Apu anymore than we should judge our ability to survive falling down a gorge by Homer's.

If you live in an area that has no Indian people and you've never interacted with one, chances are you're going to formulate your views based upon how you've seen them portrayed on TV or in movies. Not saying that it's a great way of developing one's viewpoints, but it does seem to be the case in many instances.

I don't live in an area with any Indian people and never met one until University, yet I knew Apu was just a bad exaggeration done for comic effect when I first saw him when the show premiered (I would have been about 10 or 11 at the time). You propose to treat a symptom or an overall larger problem of people not taught to see when, how often, and why fiction doesn't echo reality. They taught this stuff in elementary school back then.

Of course that assumes one of two things isn't true:

That the show is actually influencing people's views rather than they already had those views and Apu is just their validation.

That your concern is truly about Apu the stereotype than the lack of highly known roles for Indians elsewhere.

The removal of Apu wouldn't change a prior bigot's mind, nor is it a promise of better roles for Indians, and but he's something to blame for both.
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One, Apu needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine. Two, whenever Apus not on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Apu"? Three--
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CarlGrimes posted...

YoshitoKikuchi posted...

his portrayal results in negative stereotypes about the culture.

Yes, hard working Indian immigrants that own their own businesses are such negative stereotypes.

Fuck that shitty way of thinking.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ulterior-motives/201302/the-pain-positive-stereotypes

After completing the packets, participants rated how much they liked their partner and they filled out some other scales including a measure of how much they felt like their partner depersonalized them by reducing them to a member of their racial group.

Positive stereotypes did not make people feel good. When the White participant used a positive stereotype, the Asian participant liked them less and felt more depersonalized. The positive stereotype also made the participants angry. Statistically, the amount of depersonalization they felt explained the amount of dislike they felt for their partner.
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Yes and no. It's complicated. The biggest issue is how damn influential The Simpsons is over pop culture.

CarlGrimes posted...

YoshitoKikuchi posted...

his portrayal results in negative stereotypes about the culture.

Yes, hard working Indian immigrants that own their own businesses are such negative stereotypes.

He doesn't own the Kwik-E Mart.
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Darmik posted...

He doesn't own the Kwik-E Mart.

Not at first, but it was retconned that him and Sanjay both own it.
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How would you respond to the filmmaker?

Not care, because I couldn't be bothered to listen to his opinion? If he's upset about something, that's his fault and his problem.
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WaffIeElite posted...

How would you respond to the filmmaker?

Not care, because I couldn't be bothered to listen to his opinion? If he's upset about something, that's his fault and his problem.

Ok.
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No.

Vyrulisse posted...

Guess we should get rid of Groundskeeper Willie as well since we're going down that road. Oh yeah Mr. Burns has to go too.

What's wrong with Mr. Burns?
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Surprised no ones offended by Cleveland from Family Guy. He's voiced by a white guy and is a black stereotype

alimajor posted...

Surprised no ones offended by Cleveland from Family Guy. He's voiced by a white guy and is a black stereotype

Although people were pissed about Cleveland being voiced by a white guy, Cleveland wasn't a stereotypical black character.

I know Matt Groening and the rest didn't mean for Apu to be interpreted as an offensive characters, and they've taken great strides over nearly 30 years to flesh out Apu so that he isn't a stereotype. But I do think the character shaped the way people viewed the average Indian and South Asian, especially back when there weren't many characters of those nationalities who weren't terrorists or gas station workers. And from what I can tell, it's caused a lot of frustration for South Asian actors trying to get a decent role. Master of None had a whole episode about this.