Current Events > How did China grow so powerful

(+) Yeah! (+)

They were third world status half a century ago and now they are a world power financing American debt. By what means is this possible. The west seems pretty adept at sabotaging countries that conflict with their interest but China was able to rise without any trouble and have leverage without a blink
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Capitalism brings prosperity and growth
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

financing America debt.

Lmao
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Their massive workforce.
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A fuckton of people and resources
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Capitalism brings prosperity and growth

There growth was created and overseen during the rise and direction of the CCP right?
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Glorious Chinese brand of communism has uplifted the people
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Capitalism brings prosperity and growth

There growth was created and overseen during the rise and direction of the CCP right?

no, it's due to the dynamic and powerful global economy
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Their economic growth coincides with capitalist policies
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SGT_Conti posted...

Glorious Chinese brand of communism has uplifted the people

china is not communist
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ChainedRedone posted...

Their massive workforce.

Is this the sole factor that can transform a country? India has the same amount and their not better off
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Steroids
That's not a natural woman's body
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

Their massive workforce.

Is this the sole factor that can transform a country? India has the same amount and their not better off

thanks to capitalism, the poorest indians are seeing the most rapid and substantial increase in their standard of living

india is poised to emerge as a very wealthy superpower
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

ScottSweatshirt posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Capitalism brings prosperity and growth

There growth was created and overseen during the rise and direction of the CCP right?

no, it's due to the dynamic and powerful global economy

Why China and not Brazil? Why has the global economy shown favor to one country and not the other
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ScottSweatshirt posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Capitalism brings prosperity and growth

There growth was created and overseen during the rise and direction of the CCP right?

no, it's due to the dynamic and powerful global economy

Why China and not Brazil? Why has the global economy shown favor to one country and not the other

Brazil's leadership tanked its future. Whereas China's leadership allowed prosperity.
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

Their massive workforce.

Is this the sole factor that can transform a country? India has the same amount and their not better off

India is doing very well.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

ScottSweatshirt posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

Their massive workforce.

Is this the sole factor that can transform a country? India has the same amount and their not better off

thanks to capitalism, the poorest indians are seeing the most rapid and substantial increase in their standard of living

india is poised to emerge as a very wealthy superpower

I thought they were poor and working in factories without regard for safety and reasonable compensation. Are these the same people getting rich or is there a different segment of the population that has other alternatives?
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China is simply too large, populous, and rich in resources to not be economically powerful for any length of time.
It's not even particularly well-run, either: the CCP is basically a kleptocratic clique, and all you need is a fat stack of yuan to keep government regulators from looking too closely at your factories.
Then there's the nightmare of the "Prosperity Zones".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPv8gpZSpqI

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ScottSweatshirt posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

ScottSweatshirt posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Capitalism brings prosperity and growth

There growth was created and overseen during the rise and direction of the CCP right?

no, it's due to the dynamic and powerful global economy

Why China and not Brazil? Why has the global economy shown favor to one country and not the other

Brazil's leadership tanked its future. Whereas China's leadership allowed prosperity.

So a large workforce isn't the only factor, What policies was China able to implement that allowed it to drastically transform within a few decades that other countries didn't consider. Conversely, Japan has a tiny workforce so how were they able to reach immediate prominence as a emerging power and first world nation
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Somebody please help
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Son Goku/Sun Wukong
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Their power does not come for holding American debt, they don't even hold that much compared to many other countries.

Their true power comes from being the primary and/or sole manufacturer of many things. The greatest national security threat to the US is how much is made in China, especially computer related parts. Also, they currently have the only operating rare earth metals mine(s) in the world.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

ScottSweatshirt posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

Their massive workforce.

Is this the sole factor that can transform a country? India has the same amount and their not better off

thanks to capitalism, the poorest indians are seeing the most rapid and substantial increase in their standard of living

india is poised to emerge as a very wealthy superpower

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/11/16/in-polluted-delhi-diplomats-ponder-leaving-the-city-to-breathe/?utm_term=.ffd5a13abe5c

Too bad you can't breath capitalism.
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ElatedVenusaur posted...

China is simply too large, populous, and rich in resources to not be economically powerful for any length of time.
It's not even particularly well-run, either: the CCP is basically a kleptocratic clique, and all you need is a fat stack of yuan to keep government regulators from looking too closely at your factories.
Then there's the nightmare of the "Prosperity Zones".

What national companies does China have that that contributes to economic growth. From my understanding, most factories are American owned or chartered to create product for American companies which sound like a medium for foreign expense shaving so how does this have a positive turn on the contriescrconomy. What well known companies exist in china that are exported and consumed globally? They don't even export cars or have a well known automotive brand
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too bad about the lack of factory jobs. things used to be made in America without having to rely on the slaves in prison.
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Many people think China has already or is close to peaking due to its demographic issues and the trouble it will have attempting to shift to a service economy now that many states can do the cheap manufacturing thing better than they can plus increased automation. We shall see. Economists seem to change their minds collectively ever 5 years.
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Callixtus posted...

ready or is close to peaking due to its demographic issues and the trouble it will have attempting to shift to a service economy now that many states can do the cheap manufacturing thing better than they can plus increased auto

The biggest risk China has is a rebelling population. The economy and standard of living has been greatly expanding for 2 decades but it cannot last forever. That has helped quell any real sense of a revolt. China is not some monolithic country but made up of a bunch of ethnic groups that have not always been united.
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YellowSUV posted...

Callixtus posted...

ready or is close to peaking due to its demographic issues and the trouble it will have attempting to shift to a service economy now that many states can do the cheap manufacturing thing better than they can plus increased auto

The biggest risk China has is a rebelling population. The economy and standard of living has been greatly expanding for 2 decades but it cannot last forever. That has helped quell any real sense of a revolt. China is not some monolithic country but made up of a bunch of ethnic groups that have not always been united.

People talk up this line a lot, but I need more evidence before I can believe that. China has an extremely powerful police state and we have already seen modern surveillance tehcnology crush uprisings in the Arab states.

But the fact that China's population is extremely imbalanced towards the aging is a hard fact.
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Omnislasher posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPv8gpZSpqI

thnx
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China controls over 95% of a material used in electronics and phones exclusively so they have a monopoly on that market. Almost every piece of electronic hardware in the world has material traced back to china.
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

Omnislasher posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPv8gpZSpqI

thnx

my pleasure

^should have said this earlier but people should go to 51 minutes for the china question specifically

China was a major power for much of the world's history. In the 1800s it was held down by the colonial powers, and that was followed by 50 years of war, both civil war and fighting with Japan in WW2, but then after they unified again they have been building back up. Particularly since like the 1980s or so, they have been in major nation building mode.

A lot of people are still ignorant of China and its power. It all makes sense though when you look at the facts.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Capitalism brings prosperity and growth

They are straight up communist. It's all the worst qualities of a nanny state you can think of. They literally regulate the babies you're allowed to have. Their unemployment is so high that mobs of people rush buildings trying to get jobs. They pay the workers virtually nothing.

They're succeeding because the government actually does its fucking job.
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

They were third world status half a century ago and now they are a world power financing American debt. By what means is this possible. The west seems pretty adept at sabotaging countries that conflict with their interest but China was able to rise without any trouble and have leverage without a blink

While the world became a civilized place and started worrying about 'pesky little things' such as minimum wages, human rights, environmental protection and labor laws, china were living under a brutal communist regime and lived in misery.

Then the rest of the world began developing technology. Living standards went way up yet again, while technology made it feasible to move production and jobs anywhere in the world to any other place.

Mega corporations saw an opportunity for profit there, imagine being able to sell the shit you produce and sell it at first world prices but with 3rd world dictatorship production costs! Why pay 100 fat westerners minimum wage so they work 8 hour days and produce 1000 sneakers a day, if you can take your factory to china and pay 100 starving 10 year olds 2 cents a day so they produce 1000 sneakers an hour? Just cram them in a small room and whip them if they slow down... you got yourself a sweat shop!

However, trade tariffs were getting in the way. So these same mega corporations convinced world governments to accept China into the WTO, gigantic sweat shop status be damned. Voila! Now you can move the world's production there. Say hello to the next world superpower and # 1 economy in the planet.

SamuelHayden posted...

ScottSweatshirt posted...

They were third world status half a century ago and now they are a world power financing American debt. By what means is this possible. The west seems pretty adept at sabotaging countries that conflict with their interest but China was able to rise without any trouble and have leverage without a blink

While the world became a civilized place and started worrying about 'pesky little things' such as minimum wages, human rights, environmental protection and labor laws, china were living under a brutal communist regime and lived in misery.

Then the rest of the world began developing technology. Living standards went way up yet again, while technology made it feasible to move production and jobs anywhere in the world to any other place.

Mega corporations saw an opportunity for profit there, imagine being able to sell the shit you produce and sell it at first world prices but with 3rd world dictatorship production costs! Why pay 100 fat westerners minimum wage so they work 8 hour days and produce 1000 sneakers a day, if you can take your factory to china and pay 100 starving 10 year olds 2 cents a day so they produce 1000 sneakers an hour? Just cram them in a small room and whip them if they slow down... you got yourself a sweat shop!

However, trade tariffs were getting in the way. So these same mega corporations convinced world governments to accept China into the WTO, gigantic sweat shop status be damned. Voila! Now you can move the world's production there. Say hello to the next world superpower and # 1 economy in the planet.

'But Samuel Hayden, I am sure you're exagerating!'

I wish I were...

https://www.salon.com/2015/03/22/the_slave_labor_behind_your_favorite_clothing_brands_gap_hm_and_more_exposed_partner/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/08/gap-next-marks-spencer-sweatshops

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

ChromaticAngel posted...

They are straight up communist.

They aren't even remotely close to communist, actually. Their one political party, the Communist Party, is only communist in name only. China has been more accurately described as "state capitalism". It's not like the market economy that exists in US and most European countries (such as Denmark), but something quite a bit different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

A fuckton of people and resources

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Historically speaking, China has been a very powerful nation for a long time, especially after the Warring Three Kingdoms period came to an end. The lull in power they experienced a couple hundred years ago came from a combination of internal strife and one of the times most powerful empires (the British) deliberately doing everything they could to weaken China for their own profit. General Mao also did quite a number on the country, it's no coincidence that once he was gone their fortunes started drastically improving. They still face significant problems in their country, but their leadership operates under a long-standing tradition of the ends justifying the means and they have over a billion people to make it happen.

India, on the other hand, is still mired down by ancient religious attitudes and customs, something which China outlawed long ago.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

A lot of people are still ignorant of China and its power. It all makes sense though when you look at the facts.

I don't even think it's ignorance so much as it is fear and American propaganda. I know a bunch of people that like to talk about how China is a smoggy communist 3rd world country still.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Capitalism brings prosperity and growth

They are straight up communist. It's all the worst qualities of a nanny state you can think of. They literally regulate the babies you're allowed to have. Their unemployment is so high that mobs of people rush buildings trying to get jobs. They pay the workers virtually nothing.

They're succeeding because the government actually does its fucking job.

They still function off of capitalism. Democracy and Capitalism are not equals and are actually at odds with each other.
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salve labor attracting western/international corporations and ripping off western patents
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chill02 posted...

UnholyMudcrab posted...

A fuckton of people and resources

synth_real posted...

Historically speaking, China has been a very powerful nation for a long time, especially after the Warring Three Kingdoms period came to an end. The lull in power they experienced a couple hundred years ago came from a combination of internal strife and one of the times most powerful empires (the British) deliberately doing everything they could to weaken China for their own profit. General Mao also did quite a number on the country, it's no coincidence that once he was gone their fortunes started drastically improving. They still face significant problems in their country, but their leadership operates under a long-standing tradition of the ends justifying the means and they have over a billion people to make it happen.

India, on the other hand, is still mired down by ancient religious attitudes and customs, something which China outlawed long ago.

Why are people glorifying China?

They're powerful because they became the world's factory because many western companies move their production there. They did it because China had very, very cheap (and poor) working conditions for its people.

Had big corp never moved levers to get China into the WTO they'd still be as poor now as they were in the 80s.

fire810 posted...

salve labor attracting western/international corporations and ripping off western patents

Yes, this is it.

That whole 'they were powerful a zillion decades ago so it's natural they're # 1 again' is dumb. There's Babylon, Mesopotamia, the Spanish Empire, the Portuguese Empire, etc. Many other areas were hubs of success at some point in the past.

synth_real posted...

Historically speaking, China has been a very powerful nation for a long time, especially after the Warring Three Kingdoms period came to an end. The lull in power they experienced a couple hundred years ago came from a combination of internal strife and one of the times most powerful empires (the British) deliberately doing everything they could to weaken China for their own profit. General Mao also did quite a number on the country, it's no coincidence that once he was gone their fortunes started drastically improving. They still face significant problems in their country, but their leadership operates under a long-standing tradition of the ends justifying the means and they have over a billion people to make it happen.

India, on the other hand, is still mired down by ancient religious attitudes and customs, something which China outlawed long ago.

this

prepare for the chinese century
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SamuelHayden posted...

fire810 posted...

salve labor attracting western/international corporations and ripping off western patents

Yes, this is it.

That whole 'they were powerful a zillion decades ago so it's natural they're # 1 again' is dumb. There's Babylon, Mesopotamia, the Spanish Empire, the Portuguese Empire, etc. Many other areas were hubs of success at some point in the past.

Except that they have a much longer and more consistent history of being powerful. None of the examples you've listed were a world power for more than a few hundred years, while China's power is measured in millennia.

I'm not saying that I like China or want to glorify them, but only someone ignorant of their history would deny their staying power.
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FightingGames posted...

synth_real posted...

Historically speaking, China has been a very powerful nation for a long time, especially after the Warring Three Kingdoms period came to an end. The lull in power they experienced a couple hundred years ago came from a combination of internal strife and one of the times most powerful empires (the British) deliberately doing everything they could to weaken China for their own profit. General Mao also did quite a number on the country, it's no coincidence that once he was gone their fortunes started drastically improving. They still face significant problems in their country, but their leadership operates under a long-standing tradition of the ends justifying the means and they have over a billion people to make it happen.

India, on the other hand, is still mired down by ancient religious attitudes and customs, something which China outlawed long ago.

this

prepare for the chinese century

not really. They're living on the edge of a bubble that's bound to pop soon. They're not a creative/inventive nation in the modern age. They're essentially the planet's factory. The only promise that China has to a self sustaining future is if they can solve the global warming problem. Their green energy tech is nice, but its not enough.
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FightingGames posted...

synth_real posted...

Historically speaking, China has been a very powerful nation for a long time, especially after the Warring Three Kingdoms period came to an end. The lull in power they experienced a couple hundred years ago came from a combination of internal strife and one of the times most powerful empires (the British) deliberately doing everything they could to weaken China for their own profit. General Mao also did quite a number on the country, it's no coincidence that once he was gone their fortunes started drastically improving. They still face significant problems in their country, but their leadership operates under a long-standing tradition of the ends justifying the means and they have over a billion people to make it happen.

India, on the other hand, is still mired down by ancient religious attitudes and customs, something which China outlawed long ago.

this

prepare for the chinese century

I find it really weird how some people here act.

*User posts a question*
*User 2 provides a (terrible) answer*
*User 3 provides a totally different answer, while explaining why User 2's answer is shit*

Rather than addressing User 3's point or explaining why User 2 is right, user 4 acts like a fuckboy an quotes user 2's post right after user 3 posted his reply, as if somehow this were equivalent to deleting or censoring user 3's post.

synth_real posted...

SamuelHayden posted...

fire810 posted...

salve labor attracting western/international corporations and ripping off western patents

Yes, this is it.

That whole 'they were powerful a zillion decades ago so it's natural they're # 1 again' is dumb. There's Babylon, Mesopotamia, the Spanish Empire, the Portuguese Empire, etc. Many other areas were hubs of success at some point in the past.

Except that they have a much longer and more consistent history of being powerful. None of the examples you've listed were a world power for more than a few hundred years, while China's power is measured in millennia.

I'm not saying that I like China or want to glorify them, but only someone ignorant of their history would deny their staying power.

yes, but that history doesn't have to translate into them being # 1 again.

The fact that they were so poor (which is the opposite of success) and were shunned out of the WTO for decades, only to get shoehorned there by greedy corporations and the huge historical opportunity that technological advancement represented (enabling outsourcing) is what got then to where they are.