Current Events > A lot of people seem to misinterpret Toxic Masculinity

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's not that masculinity in itself is harmful or toxic, but that there are societal pressures surrounding harmful traits that are labeled as masculine.

Violence, wild sex drive, being the "bread winner," being closed emotionally, these ideas are inherent to toxic masculinity. They are self-limiting, often self harming beliefs that men are pressured into embodying every day out of fear for social exclusion.
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Most guys will ignore this :(
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Truth
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And most people who use it are pretty lax in what parts of masculinity they consider toxic; particularly places they lack in.
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how does society pressure men to be violent?

Or have a wild sex drive?
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Real toxic masculinity is much closer to thug culture, and it's prevalent in poor communities where there is an abundance of missing father figures. Liberals have no interest in discussing that, though, for some mysterious reason. Easier to just demonize things like gender roles or guys with a active sex drives as being toxic.
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people whose goal is to argue don't give a damn. like the troll who posted just before me. and people will take the bait just to take the opportunity to get at the troll and feel good.
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The Admiral posted...

Toxic masculinity is basically thug culture, and it's prevalent in poor communities where there is an abundance of missing father figures. Liberals have no interest in discussing that, though, for some mysterious reason.

Hoo boy
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ZMythos posted...

It's not that masculinity in itself is harmful or toxic,

Too bad that's not the message people who parrot this garbage want to send
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hockeybub89 posted...

The Admiral posted...

Toxic masculinity is basically thug culture, and it's prevalent in poor communities where there is an abundance of missing father figures. Liberals have no interest in discussing that, though, for some mysterious reason.

Hoo boy

The Admiral posted...

Toxic masculinity is basically thug culture, and it's prevalent in poor communities where there is an abundance of missing father figures. Liberals have no interest in discussing that, though, for some mysterious reason.

can you not be wildly racist for two seconds

its not even relevant in this case
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don't. take. bait.
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WizardPowers posted...

how does society pressure men to be violent?

What would you do if a stranger walked up and started hitting on your girlfriend?

What would you expect an "average man" to do in that situation?
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Imagine if CE would actually ignore Admiral just once.
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WizardPowers posted...

how does society pressure men to be violent?

Or have a wild sex drive?

I don't know about violence, but many men have been shamed and dumped because they didn't try to get their girlfriend to fuck them all the time. She felt ugly because he simply didn't have a high sex drive, or a sex drive she expects all men to have.
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ZombiePelican posted...

ZMythos posted...

It's not that masculinity in itself is harmful or toxic,

Too bad that's not the message people who parrot this garbage want to send

If it meant "all masculinity is toxic", which is an odd way to interpret the use of an adjective, then what would even be the solution? Male genocide?
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WizardPowers posted...

how does society pressure men to be violent?

Or have a wild sex drive?

A lot of it is found in the media we watch.

Male protagonists are often depicted as violent, straight (and usually seeking an attractive woman or "winning" one at the end), cold, emotionally distant, etc.

Think of many popular actions movies and action heroes.

The Admiral posted...

Toxic masculinity is basically thug culture, and it's prevalent in poor communities where there is an abundance of missing father figures. Liberals have no interest in discussing that, though, for some mysterious reason. Easier to just demonize any guy with a normal sex drive as being toxic.

Not really. Toxic masculinity is perpetuated mainly by the ruling class through media, advertisements, etc. They embody it just as much as the impoverished.
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BLAKUboy posted...

Imagine if CE would actually ignore Admiral just once.

I really wish the Ignore feature also muted posts that quoted the user on the list.
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ZMythos posted...

Not really. Toxic masculinity is perpetuated mainly by the ruling class through media, advertisements, etc. They embody it just as much as the impoverished.

Psst. Admiral just wants to bitch about black people.
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ZombiePelican posted...

Too bad that's not the message people who parrot this garbage want to send

Yes there are groups who have hijacked the term to mean "masculinity as a whole is toxic and must be eradicated"
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Anteaterking posted...

WizardPowers posted...

how does society pressure men to be violent?

What would you do if a stranger walked up and started hitting on your girlfriend?

What would you expect an "average man" to do in that situation?

How do you determine if the "average man's" reaction in that situation is caused by society? Pretty sure the average reaction would be the same in most places of the world regardless of their particular society.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Psst. Admiral just wants to bitch about black people.

I mean if this is an opportunity for him to open up about his inner violence then maybe it will do some good.
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averagejoel posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

Imagine if CE would actually ignore Admiral just once.

I really wish the Ignore feature also muted posts that quoted the user on the list.

GameFOX had this feature (well technically you would just blacklist the username, but it amounts to the same thing.)
You could also use it to ignore the mods, which was a great fucking feature.
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Bad_Mojo posted...

She felt ugly because he simply didn't have a high sex drive, or a sex drive she expects all men to have.

sounds like toxic femininity then to me
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ZMythos posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Psst. Admiral just wants to bitch about black people.

I mean if this is an opportunity for him to open up about his inner violence then maybe it will do some good.

he's not going to open up about anything. he'll absolutely insist that he's not racist despite explicitly supporting apartheid in israel
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ZMythos posted...

Not really. Toxic masculinity is perpetuated mainly by the ruling class through media, advertisements, etc. They embody it just as much as the impoverished.

No, it isn't at all. Actual toxic masculinity:

- Thinking violence is associated with being a "man"
- Feeling the need to constantly prove your strength/masculinity to other men
- Thinking homosexuality is inherently non-masculine, resulting in extreme homophobia
- Thinking it's acceptable to treat women poorly and be openly misogynistic with language
- Having such a low opinion of women and sex that you feel no responsibility to care for a woman you impregnated

And, like I said, this is common in repressive countries and poor parts of the U.S where father figures are lacking. Stuff like "believing in gender roles" or "feeling men should be bread winners" is not toxic.
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WizardPowers posted...

Bad_Mojo posted...

She felt ugly because he simply didn't have a high sex drive, or a sex drive she expects all men to have.

sounds like toxic femininity then to me

It's the expectation that men are spectacularly virile and ever aroused. You see this thrown out in every form of media. And that if you're not, you're not really a man.
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WizardPowers posted...

Bad_Mojo posted...

She felt ugly because he simply didn't have a high sex drive, or a sex drive she expects all men to have.

sounds like toxic femininity then to me

??????????????

its masculinity that perpetuates these stereotypes
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The Admiral posted...

No, it isn't at all. Actual toxic masculinity:

- Thinking violence is associated with being a "man"
- Feeling the need to constantly prove your strength/masculinity to other men
- Thinking homosexuality is inherently non-masculine, resulting in extreme homophobia
- Thinking it's acceptable to treat women poorly and be openly misogynistic with language
- Having such a low opinion of women and sex that you feel no responsibility to care for a woman you impregnated

...You just described the President of the United States.
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looks like you're just describing the GOP and its base, addy
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metralo posted...

its masculinity that perpetuates these stereotypes

how does masculinity by itself perpetuate those stereotypes?
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I like how TC blamed the (liberal) media as having a hand in pushing toxic masculinity, and Admiral still doubled down on it being all black people's fault. He really is racist.
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it's also common for people who aren't poor and grew up with two parents in the household. our president is a frat boy stereotype. the Biff who Marty couldn't outsmart.
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The Admiral posted...

Real toxic masculinity is basically thug culture, and it's prevalent in poor communities where there is an abundance of missing father figures. Liberals have no interest in discussing that, though, for some mysterious reason. Easier to just demonize any guy with a normal sex drive as being toxic.

What about the Jock?
Why do you take anything negative and say it's black people and liberals.
You talk about narratives all the time. You seem to be extremely guilty of seeking your own narrative in every situation.
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hockeybub89 posted...

I like how TC blamed the (liberal) media as having a hand in pushing toxic masculinity, and Admiral doubled down on it being all black people's fault. He really is racist.

I never said it was black people's fault. I said things like "believing in gender roles" gets conflated with actual toxic masculinity, which is much closer to thug culture. This is much more common with boys who don't have father figures and learn their sense of masculinity from other adolescents. That's not specific to any race.
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We should all just be nice to women, maybe theyll have sex with us
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-Gavirulax- posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how TC blamed the (liberal) media as having a hand in pushing toxic masculinity, and Admiral still doubled down on it being all black people's fault. He really is racist.

Where did he say it was black people's fault?
I certainly wouldn't agree if I thought he said that.

When someone does a near daily black person crime blotter, its clear what they mean by thug culture.
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The Admiral posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how TC blamed the (liberal) media as having a hand in pushing toxic masculinity, and Admiral doubled down on it being all black people's fault. He really is racist.

I never said it was black people's fault. I said things like "believing in gender roles" gets conflated with actual toxic masculinity, which is much closer to thug culture. This is much more common with boys who don't have father figures and learn their sense of masculinity from other adolescents. That's not specific to any race.

So college fraternities are full of poor people with no father figures? Politicians are poor people with no father figures? The spoiled jocks at private schools?

Please, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who you're really talking about ("black culture" and the liberals who turn a blind eye).
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LordRazziel posted...

When someone does a near daily black person crime blotter, its clear what they mean by thug culture.

Then it's obviously not clear to you, since I don't make topics about that. Not sure if you're confused or just think making shit up to help your point is acceptable, but neither make your post look very intelligent.
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LordRazziel posted...

-Gavirulax- posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how TC blamed the (liberal) media as having a hand in pushing toxic masculinity, and Admiral still doubled down on it being all black people's fault. He really is racist.

Where did he say it was black people's fault?
I certainly wouldn't agree if I thought he said that.

When someone does a near daily black person crime blotter, its clear what they mean by thug culture.

which still doesn't make sense because the country was founded on thug culture. gangs literally took America over, got sophisticated and doubled down.
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The Admiral posted...

Real toxic masculinity is much closer to thug culture, and it's prevalent in poor communities where there is an abundance of missing father figures. Liberals have no interest in discussing that, though, for some mysterious reason. Easier to just demonize things like gender roles or guys with a active sex drives as being toxic.

Classic racist topic derailer from admiral
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Lol how the fuck is "wild sex drive" a toxic thing like the others?

There's a difference between being horny/enjoying lots of sex and being a perv
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ZMythos posted...

The Admiral posted...

No, it isn't at all. Actual toxic masculinity:

- Thinking violence is associated with being a "man"
- Feeling the need to constantly prove your strength/masculinity to other men
- Thinking homosexuality is inherently non-masculine, resulting in extreme homophobia
- Thinking it's acceptable to treat women poorly and be openly misogynistic with language
- Having such a low opinion of women and sex that you feel no responsibility to care for a woman you impregnated

...You just described the President of the United States.

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hockeybub89 posted...

So college fraternities are full of poor people with no father figures? Politicians are poor people with no father figures? The spoiled jocks at private schools?

The vast, vast majority of people in those groups don't behave in ways that are toxic. And even then, I don't equate things like beating a man because you want to look tough in front of your boys with being perverted and inappropriate.
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The Admiral posted...

The vast, vast majority of people in those groups don't behave in ways that are not toxic. And even then, I don't equate things like beating a man because you want to look tough in front of your boys with being perverted and inappropriate.

But what causes people that aren't poor and fatherless to be toxic? What about the poor and fatherless that aren't toxic? You wanted to derail the topic by making racially and politically charged statements and I regretfully bit. No one is buying shit about this not being about black people. You know, a group whose transgressions you say are ignored by liberals, a group that is too stupid to realize they are being kept poor and stupid by the liberals. A group who you like to remind everyone is statistically poorer and commits more crime and doesn't have father figures.
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The Admiral posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

So college fraternities are full of poor people with no father figures? Politicians are poor people with no father figures? The spoiled jocks at private schools?

The vast, vast majority of people in those groups don't behave in ways that are toxic. And even then, I don't equate things like beating a man because you want to look tough in front of your boys with being perverted and inappropriate.

Did you just say that you don't equate BEATING someone in order to appear tough with being inappropriate?
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

The Admiral posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

So college fraternities are full of poor people with no father figures? Politicians are poor people with no father figures? The spoiled jocks at private schools?

The vast, vast majority of people in those groups don't behave in ways that are toxic. And even then, I don't equate things like beating a man because you want to look tough in front of your boys with being perverted and inappropriate.

Did you just say that you don't equate BEATING someone in order to appear tough with being inappropriate?

It's a good insight into his mental state
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