Current Events > The reason why Republicans say Obama made racism worse.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Let's lay out the proposed problems and any solutions we may have itt :)

racism is a little vague, can we get more specific so we can discuss policy that will help

Questionmarktarius posted...

SArm_v2_0 posted...

Again, this was a list that was originally written for rich white people who asked what they could do to be allies to poor African Americans in Kentucky. It was not a "demand of all white people" as your link later spun it.

No amount of spin can negate the list's tl;dr meaning of "free shit".

Yes. The writer responded specifically to rich white people who asked her "How can we help fix generational poverty?" by suggesting ways they could volunteer to donate their money and land if and when they no longer needed it, and if and when they could afford it.

I don't understand why that is still making you angry.

SArm_v2_0 posted...

Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Demanding white people give their homes to black people is about equality?

Nobody did that.

This is a very good example of how the media is to blame for a lot of the tension.

A) Someone writes a message to financially comfortable white people who have asked what they can do to help the poverty situation in Louisville.

B) The list includes suggestions that if a white family is ready to downsize, that they should consider selling their home to a minority family that needs a break.

C) A publisher finds it, changes the headline just a little so now it reads like a list of requests to all whites.

D) Radical alt right blogs like Brietbart find it and change it even further to "demands from a racist BLM leader."

E) At this point the original message is lost, and the appropriate parties get angry over something that no longer resembles reality.

It's no wonder the racial lines are drawn so thick these days: websites are profiting off of making us unreasonably angry over complete lies.

They literally say to give, for free. NOT sell.

Because 'white privilege will give us that money back' somehow.
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Kineth posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

SArm_v2_0 posted...

Again, this was a list that was originally written for rich white people who asked what they could do to be allies to poor African Americans in Kentucky. It was not a "demand of all white people" as your link later spun it.

No amount of spin can negate the list's tl;dr meaning of "free shit".

You know, you say that, but it would appear that you're the one putting spin on this.

Yes. "Free shit" by itself has negative connotations, and quite frankly it should.

But, let's look at the list:

1. White people, if you dont have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.

2. White people, if youre inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. Youre bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.

3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.

7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the fuck they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.

8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazis and Other lil dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.

9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.

10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesnt mean taking up knitting, unless youre making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work.

1: free shit
2: free shit
3: free shit
4: free shit
5: free shit
6: free shit
7: shame and exile
8: shame and exile
9: shame and exile
10: free shit

Nice to see the "Obama can't do wrong" brigade is still healthy and active.
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darkjedilink posted...

They literally say to give, for free. NOT sell.

So?

Questionmarktarius posted...

Yes. "Free s***" by itself has negative connotations, and quite frankly it should.

African Americans had generations worth of opportunity taken from them by redlining. The wealth disparity is of such magnitude that it will be with us for centuries to come.

Questionmarktarius posted...

I'm very well aware of why you made that evaluation. I'm just saying that it's dishonest to call the actual context of the matter spin, and therefore unworthy of consideration, as you sit and spin on the damn thing yourself.
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darkjedilink posted...

They literally say to give, for free. NOT sell.

Because 'white privilege will give us that money back' somehow.

You know what? You're right. She does say give up. My mistake. But again, she's suggesting this to rich white people who asked how they could help and only if they can afford to do it.

Kineth posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

I'm very well aware of why you made that evaluation. I'm just saying that it's dishonest to call the actual context of the matter spin and therefore unworthy of consideration as you sit and spin on the damn thing yourself.

Everybody spins.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Everybody spins.

So what makes your spin more valid than the factual basis of the context that S_Arm is telling you?
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Everybody spins.

Nope.

Kineth posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Everybody spins.

So what makes your spin more valid than the factual basis of the context that S_Arm is telling you?

Go look at post 59.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Kineth posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Everybody spins.

So what makes your spin more valid than the factual basis of the context that S_Arm is telling you?

Go look at post 59.

I'll ask again. What makes your spin more valid than the factual basis of the context?
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Kineth posted...

I'll ask again. What makes your spin more valid than the factual basis of the context?

The factual basis of the context is "give us free stuff".

A request for charity vs a societal demand doesn't make that any less true.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Kineth posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Everybody spins.

So what makes your spin more valid than the factual basis of the context that S_Arm is telling you?

Go look at post 59.

The post where I admit to mis-reading one of the statements? If I actually wanted to spin things I wouldn't have owned up to the mistake.

You still haven't answered my question though. This has been revealed to be a list of suggestions from a person responding directly to rich white people who asked to be allies and help fix generational poverty among black people. So why do you object to it? I assume you don't get upset when other charities ask for donations, right?

Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

darkjedilink posted...

They literally say to give, for free. NOT sell.

So?

So, you can't read - you said she was asking to SELL to black people, when she was not.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Yes. "Free s***" by itself has negative connotations, and quite frankly it should.

African Americans had generations worth of opportunity taken from them by redlining. The wealth disparity is of such magnitude that it will be with us for centuries to come.

Maybe black people should stop committing violent crimes at a disproportionate rate, go to school, and actually join the work force. BUILD WEALTH like white people have to, and EARN it, instead of literally demanding free shit under the guise of 'equality.'
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SArm_v2_0 posted...

So why do you object to it? I assume you don't get upset when other charities ask for donations, right?

What are some charities that specifically target a race or ethnic group as owing something while simultaneously demonizing them? I remember a certain organization that demonized an ethnic group and made them give up their wealth. It was in 1930s Germany.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Kineth posted...

I'll ask again. What makes your spin more valid than the factual basis of the context?

The factual basis of the context is "give us free stuff".

A request for charity vs a societal demand doesn't make that any less true.

Let's try this again. What makes it more valid? I never questioned the truth of your sentiment, btw, so please, get over that and answer my fucking question.
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darkjedilink posted...

instead of literally demanding free s*** under the guise of 'equality.'

I say again, when did anybody demand free houses?

thelovefist posted...

SArm_v2_0 posted...

So why do you object to it? I assume you don't get upset when other charities ask for donations, right?

What are some charities that specifically target a race or ethnic group as owing something while simultaneously demonizing them? I remember a certain organization that demonized an ethnic group and made them give up their wealth. It was in 1930s Germany.

Can you point to where white people as an ethnic group were demonized in the original article?

darkjedilink posted...

instead of literally demanding free s*** under the guise of 'equality.'

But no demands were made.

thelovefist posted...

What are some charities that specifically target a race or ethnic group

She didn't target anyone. She was specifically asked for suggestions by a race in a particular tax bracket.

Kineth posted...

Let's try this again. What makes it more valid? I never questioned the truth of your sentiment, btw, so please, get over that and answer my fucking question.

I don't understand what you're asking then.

SArm_v2_0 posted...

She didn't target anyone. She was specifically asked for suggestions by a race in a particular tax bracket.

At the very least, and to her credit, it's all voluntary. That's important.

Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

thelovefist posted...

SArm_v2_0 posted...

So why do you object to it? I assume you don't get upset when other charities ask for donations, right?

What are some charities that specifically target a race or ethnic group as owing something while simultaneously demonizing them? I remember a certain organization that demonized an ethnic group and made them give up their wealth. It was in 1930s Germany.

Can you point to where white people as an ethnic group were demonized in the original article?

ROD pls. Let the grown ups speak.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

At the very least, and to her credit, it's all voluntary. That's important.

Exactly. There's a huge difference between "We demand you give us free shit! You owe us!" and "If you truly want to help and you can afford to do it, consider donating to the cause." And it's sad but typical that the media plays us like this regularly.

darkjedilink posted...

Maybe black people should stop committing violent crimes at a disproportionate rate, go to school, and actually join the work force. BUILD WEALTH like white people have to, and EARN it, instead of literally demanding free shit under the guise of 'equality.'

And what makes you "think" (cause thinking isn't one of your strong points) that black folks ain't doing that? Please humor me on this one.
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Obama made racism worse because he's a racist who was in a position of great power. It's that simple.
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Bishop9800 posted...

And what makes you "think" (cause thinking isn't one of your strong points) that black folks ain't doing that? Please humor me on this one.

Simple statistical fact, really. Black people graduate high school at lower rates and hold jobs at lower rates.
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r4X0r posted...

Simple statistical fact, really. Black people graduate high school at lower rates and hold jobs at lower rates.

Really? And can you show me those "facts"?
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So we've now got to the point in the topic where statistical racism is the fallback for arguments.
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Seriously?

https://www.google.com/search?q=high+school+graduation+rates+by+race&oq=high+school+graduation+rates+by+race

https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&ei=us8NWsq_O8jEjwSturrYDw&q=unemployment+rates+by+race&oq=unemployment+rates+by+race
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What is "statistical racism"?
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Kineth posted...

So we've now got to the point in the topic where statistical racism is the fallback for arguments.

What do you mean "got"?
This is CE, after all.

thelovefist posted...

What is "statistical racism"?

That's slang for "I don't like the facts you've presented as they run contrary to my fragile worldview so I'm going to attempt to discredit you as a racist."
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Bishop9800 posted...

r4X0r posted...

Simple statistical fact, really. Black people graduate high school at lower rates and hold jobs at lower rates.

Really? And can you show me those "facts"?

I mean...those are pretty well known stats. I think there's way more to the picture than darkjedi is giving credit, but it's not hard to prove the statistical differences between graduation rates and unemployment by race.

r4X0r posted...

Simple statistical fact, really. Black people graduate high school at lower rates and hold jobs at lower rates.

Why do you think that is?
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SageHarpuia posted...

3. He gives multiple absurd and apologetic notions in the OP

Which is infinitely less ridiculous than calling people racist for making jokes about trump looking orange at times (as juvenile as that is)
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Antifar posted...

r4X0r posted...

Simple statistical fact, really. Black people graduate high school at lower rates and hold jobs at lower rates.

Why do you think that is?

Because we have a lavish array of social aid programs intended to have exactly that effect.
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thelovefist posted...

What is "statistical racism"?

Using statistics to characterize a whole race of people while ignoring the various factors that affect why the data is that way.
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SArm_v2_0 posted...

Bishop9800 posted...

r4X0r posted...

Simple statistical fact, really. Black people graduate high school at lower rates and hold jobs at lower rates.

Really? And can you show me those "facts"?

I mean...those are pretty well known stats. I think there's way more to the picture than darkjedi is giving credit, but it's not hard to prove the statistical differences between graduation rates and unemployment by race.

It's a confusion of causality and correlation.
Poverty is the big driver of societal failure, and creates a feedback loop with itself.

Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

darkjedilink posted...

instead of literally demanding free s*** under the guise of 'equality.'

I say again, when did anybody demand free houses?

When asked how to solve poverty, your response is nothing more than 'give us free shit,' it's not a request.
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Race relations will never be perfect. With the said, obama siding against the police in matters that were obviously race-related gave fuel to the fire. Then blm became a thing and obama gave them his support. We all know how they operate
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"When did anyone demand free houses?"

I swear, some people...

https://www.google.com/search?q=black+woman+demands+white+people+give+up+houses

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family.
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darkjedilink posted...

When asked how to solve poverty, your response is nothing more than 'give us free s***,' it's not a request.

Yes, it's still a suggestion and not a demand, especially when her requests were all on a voluntary basis, when originally written. I think you're just going to have to let this one go.

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's a confusion of causality and correlation.
Poverty is the big driver of societal failure, and creates a feedback loop with itself.

True. And there are other historical factors involved beyond just poverty, which have affected certain races more than others.

I was just saying that if we're only talking abbot graduation rates and unemployment, those stats aren't hard to prove. :)

r4X0r posted...

"When did anyone demand free houses?"

I swear, some people...

https://www.google.com/search?q=black+woman+demands+white+people+give+up+houses

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family.

We already covered this earlier in the topic, man. She didn't make demands in the original writing. She gave suggestions to rich people who asked her how they could help, and said they should only do it if they could afford it. Then alt right websites took that information, bastardized it, changed the headline, and tried to anger half the country.

SArm_v2_0 posted...

r4X0r posted...

"When did anyone demand free houses?"

I swear, some people...

https://www.google.com/search?q=black+woman+demands+white+people+give+up+houses

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family.

We already covered this earlier in the topic, man. She didn't make demands in the original writing. She gave suggestions to rich people who asked her how they could help, and said they should only do it if they could afford it. Then alt right websites took that information, bastardized it, changed the headline, and tried to anger half the country.

Literally all of her suggestions are 'give us free shit.'

No job training. No anti-gang work. No community investment. THE ONLY SUGGESTIONS WERE GIVE US FREE HOUSES.

If that's the only solution, it isn't a request.
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darkjedilink posted...

Literally all of her suggestions are 'give us free shit.'

Now now, three of them were to exile racists.

darkjedilink posted...

Literally all of her suggestions are 'give us free s***.'

No job training. No anti-gang work. No community investment. THE ONLY SUGGESTIONS WERE GIVE US FREE HOUSES.

If that's the only solution, it isn't a request.

I agree with you that it's not a great solution. A poverty stricken family may not last long in an upper or even middle class neighborhood because the cost of living is too high. And simply giving someone a boost without teaching them how to sustain themselves rarely turns out well.

But it's still not a "demand" no matter how you spin it. When someone says "How can I help" and you respond "you could do this, if it's within your means," that's literally not a demand at all.

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Literally all of her suggestions are 'give us free shit.'

Now now, three of them were to exile racists.

I don't understand. Do you think that's a bad thing?

SArm_v2_0 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Literally all of her suggestions are 'give us free s***.'

No job training. No anti-gang work. No community investment. THE ONLY SUGGESTIONS WERE GIVE US FREE HOUSES.

If that's the only solution, it isn't a request.

I agree with you that it's not a great solution. A poverty stricken family may not last long in an upper or even middle class neighborhood because the cost of living is too high. And simply giving someone a boost without teaching them how to sustain themselves rarely turns out well.

But it's still not a "demand" no matter how you spin it. When someone says "How can I help" and you respond "you could do this, if it's within your means," that's literally not a demand at all.

Read the very end of the leoweekly.com article before they credit the woman who made this.

#RunUsOurLand #Reparations #YouGonLearnToday #RunUsOurMoney

Am I gon learn how you ask nicely for free shit?
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SArm_v2_0 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Literally all of her suggestions are 'give us free shit.'

Now now, three of them were to exile racists.

I don't understand. Do you think that's a bad thing?

Seven out of ten is not "literally all".

Even then, racism is harmless until applied to action, especially so when magnified by authority.
Your old anti-miscegenist grandpa isn't going to do a damn thing. Klansman Bob in the mailroom isn't going to accomplish much. Anti-semite Bill with the "VP of HR" nameplate is just plain dangerous.