Poll of the Day > I don't really care that much about games not having paper manuals anymore tbh

(+) Yeah! (+)

Everybody always says "I miss just reading those things for fun", but do you really? I think half the time I read them "for fun" as a kid was just to keep me connected to the game when I wasn't playing. Now that I don't need my parents' permission to play video games, I'd rather just actually play than read the manual.

I don't like a lot of things about modern gaming, but at least removing manuals is something that feels modern and progressive. I'm all for cutting costs and saving trees. Plus, video games are popular enough now that you can just buy artwork online that's much better than anything you would have found in a manual.

as long as there is a digital version of the manual i'm good. i'd rather have a manual in some form then having to play through a annoying tutorial section every time I start a new file.
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You can not care about them not being there anymore since it's been so long iz normal, but you can still have liked reading them back them.

Rockies posted...

saving trees.

fuck the trees, and the bees, and your dirty knees
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That's another thing. People complain about how games didn't used to have tutorials, but tutorials started long before a time it would have been acceptable not to include a manual in a new game. Maybe old games didn't need tutorials not because they had manuals, but because they had two to four buttons and were in 2D. If I read a manual about what twelve different controls do before I play the game, I'm not going to remember all of them once I start playing, so it might as well have a tutorial.

Rockies posted...

That's another thing. People complain about how games didn't used to have tutorials, but tutorials started long before a time it would have been acceptable not to include a manual in a new game. Maybe old games didn't need tutorials not because they had manuals, but because they had two to four buttons and were in 2D. If I read a manual about what twelve different controls do before I play the game, I'm not going to remember all of them once I start playing, so it might as well have a tutorial.

I don't mind tutorials that just give me the basics, but I don't need it telling me how to open a door, if I can't figure that out thats what the manual is for. manual is also nice for when there is something you don't use very often so you might actually forget how to do it. as said as long as there is a digital version/ in game instructions in the option menu. i'm good.
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Rockies posted...

but do you really?

Yes.
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I literally never looked at those.
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Rockies posted...

Everybody always says "I miss just reading those things for fun", but do you really?

yes... have you seen the Baldur's Gate 2 and Icewind Dale manuals?



really, it's that a game has to be complex enough in the first place to warrant a manual that's worth reading.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

I don't mind tutorials that just give me the basics, but I don't need it telling me how to open a door

Eh, this is fine if it's just a little pop-up of the open button and you can open it at any time. It gets annoying when the game stops you and is really obvious about it. If I already know how to open the damn door, why are you stopping me to make sure?

If you've ever played Half-Life 2, that's a good example of how to do tutorials/button prompts. I remember getting button prompts pretty late in the game, but they are completely unobtrusive, tend to be used for obscure controls (like the flashlight), and don't give away how to do the puzzle.

I will say manuals where more important back in the day as they usually told you the plot of the game where as the game itself didn't talking NES era here. thats one area I feel the virtual console games fail. they have digital manuals but its not the same ones as back in the day and thus sometimes lack the full plot information the original provided. among other things think some games manuals had hints and tips for the early sections of the games like I wanna say metroid gave a rough map of the games map, no specifics but enough to help you backtrack more easily when need be.
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Sahuagin posted...

Rockies posted...

Everybody always says "I miss just reading those things for fun", but do you really?

yes... have you seen the Baldur's Gate 2 and Icewind Dale manuals?

That doesn't really look like a standard manual though. I'm just talking about a manual you can fit in the left slot (for a disc game) or in a standard-sized box (for cartridge and boxed PC games). That kind of thing can go in special editions, which still offer plenty of paper.

Rockies posted...

I'm just talking about a manual you can fit in the left slot (for a disc game) or in a standard-sized box

I highly doubt that anyone who is saying they miss reading manuals is talking about the useless things that came in CD cases.

other great examples of manuals are from Master of Orion 2, SimCity 2000, Civilization games which also came with full color charts. BG2 and IWD also came with cloth maps, though they weren't very useful. Skyrim came with a paper map. Morrowind came with the most useful paper map I've ever seen a game have. (anyone playing Morrowind today and constantly getting lost, maybe you're missing the map!)

again, it takes a complex enough game in the first place to warrant a good manual. your example of Half Life 2 is ridiculous considering how absurdly shallow the game is.

these days, I could imagine games from Paradox and Amplitude coming with great manuals worth reading. the only problem is that, especially for Paradox games, these days these kinds of games evolve too much after release. even if they came with great manuals, they'd be obsolete pretty quickly.
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That is exactly what they are talking about. Maybe you played a lot of games with elaborate manuals like that, but that's not common. People do lament games not including even just the standard manuals

Rockies posted...

That is exactly what they are talking about.

well, it depends. there is the worthless 2-page booklet that describes how to use a cd-drive, or there's the 20-40 page manual that also includes a few of the absolute basics of how to play the game. or there's 100+ page manuals that include a good deal of the complex mechanics as well as maybe a partial bestiary and spell list. or there's the gorgeous 200+ BG2 manual.

going through my collection (discovering I don't know where my BG2 manual is, which worries me...) some of my favorites include:

IWD: 150+ pages, which includes complete spell list, mechanics, and many attribute tables (similar for BG2, IWD2, and NWN. Throne of Bhaal has only a 40+ page manual, but it's all tables and new spell descriptions from start to finish.)

Age of Wonders: 180+ pages, includes unit lists and ability lists (I actually never really used this, didn't know it had that kind of info)

Lords of Magic: 250+ pages, includes lots of strategy and mechanical info that's otherwise hard to figure out in-game, as well as full spell tables (though no descriptions) and unit, item, and building lists

SimCity 2000: approaching 150 pages describing most or all of the game mechanics, with some real world city related essays and drawings in the back.

Civ 3: 225+ page manual covering all the complex mechanics (hilariously has a MOO3 ad on the back)

Civ 2 Test of Time: same

MOO2: 160+ page manual describing all the mechanics including a detailed tech tree

Arcanum: 180+ page manual including skill and spell lists.

Fallout 2: 160+ pages. really high quality paper and quality artwork throughout, making it look like a rugged old bloodied notebook you found in a ruin somewhere. (fallout 1 was similar if I recall)

Unnatural Selection (Maxis game about directed evolution): 125+ pages including 16 science experiments to try listed at the back.

Also a ~100 page manual for SimTower, SimLife, and SimCity Classic

Also have a 425+ page manual that came with Interplay 15th anniversary collection.

(have dozens and dozens more manuals, but these are the best ones.)
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That's cool and all, but again, those sound to me like they were never standard. Wouldn't special editions of new games still have stuff like that? Yeah, sure, people like fancy manuals too, but that isn't what people are complaining about with games not having manuals.

Rockies posted...

That's cool and all, but again, those sound to me like they were never standard. Wouldn't special editions of new games still have stuff like that? Yeah, sure, people like fancy manuals too, but that isn't what people are complaining about with games not having manuals.

this was 'standard' for PC gaming. of course it was probably not standard for console gaming. most of these are not special editions, these are just complex games that have complex manuals.

really, it's the internet that ruined this, though. sad as it is, the internet is a just plain better medium to present this kind of information, especially since games evolve way more these days than they used to. back then, a game would be released and stay the way it was released, and there was no internet to look anything up, so if you had a complex game, you needed a good manual. it was a crucial part of the package (for PC gaming anyway).
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To read while you poop before playing.
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Rockies posted...

That's cool and all, but again, those sound to me like they were never standard. Wouldn't special editions of new games still have stuff like that? Yeah, sure, people like fancy manuals too, but that isn't what people are complaining about with games not having manuals.

LoD and Arc the Lad manuals were nice, had characters bios, background story and went through many mechanics of the game. Nice to read. Or even Megaman X manuals, like X6 it mentions X as the leader of the 17th Reploid Hunter Unit, little things like that are cool.
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