Current Events > Pope Francis accused of spreading heresy by conservative Catholic theologians

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RoseSaver 09/23/17 8:39:21 PM #1:	https://apnews.com/feb3193a715d44cb852f853b907b65e0 Several dozen tradition-minded Roman Catholic theologians, priests and academics have formally accused Pope Francis of spreading heresy with his 2016 opening to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics. In a 25-page letter delivered to Francis last month and provided Saturday to The Associated Press, the 62 signatories issued a “filial correction” to the pope — a measure they said hadn’t been employed since the 14th century. The letter accused Francis of propagating seven heretical positions concerning marriage, moral life and the sacraments with his 2016 document “The Joy of Love” and subsequent “acts, words and omissions.” The initiative follows another formal act by four tradition-minded cardinals who wrote Francis last year asking him to clarify a series of questions, or “dubbia,” they had about his 2016 text. Francis hasn’t responded to either initiative. The Vatican spokesman didn’t immediately respond to an email seeking comment late Saturday. None of the signatories of the new letter is a cardinal, and the highest-ranking churchman listed is actually someone whose organization has no legal standing in the Catholic Church: Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X. Several other signatories are well-known admirers of the old Latin Mass which Fellay’s followers celebrate. But organizers said the initiative was nevertheless significant and a sign of the concern among a certain contingent of academics and pastors over Francis’ positions, which they said posed a danger to the faithful. “There is a role for theologians and philosophers to explain to people the church’s teaching, to correct misunderstandings,” said Joseph Shaw, a spokesman for the initiative, signatory of the correction and senior research fellow in moral philosophy at Oxford University. When it was released in April 2016, “The Joy of Love” immediately sparked controversy because it opened the door to letting civilly remarried Catholics receive Communion. Church teaching holds that unless these Catholics obtain an annulment — a church decree that their first marriage was invalid — they cannot receive the sacraments, since they are seen as committing adultery. Francis didn’t create a church-wide pass for these Catholics, but suggested — in vague terms and strategically placed footnotes — that bishops and priests could do so on a case-by-case basis after accompanying them on a spiritual journey of discernment. Subsequent comments and writings have made clear he intended such wiggle room, part of his belief that God’s mercy extends in particular to sinners and that the Eucharist isn’t a prize for the perfect but nourishment for the weak. Shaw said none of the four cardinals involved in the initial “dubbia” letter, nor any other cardinal, was involved in the “filial correction.” Organizers said the last time such a correction was issued was to Pope John XXII in 1333 for errors which he later recanted. Here is the letter: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5FGuFFkfrDvME5seVJ3TkhrRkU/view Very sad the consequences this may have for the Pope who is trying to move the religion forward while others are stuck in the 14th century. I pray he stays strong. <cite>RoseSaver posted [p:887164499] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>https://apnews.com/feb3193a715d44cb852f853b907b65e0 <quote>Several dozen tradition-minded Roman Catholic theologians, priests and academics have formally accused Pope Francis of spreading heresy with his 2016 opening to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics. In a 25-page letter delivered to Francis last month and provided Saturday to The Associated Press, the 62 signatories issued a “filial correction” to the pope — a measure they said hadn’t been employed since the 14th century. The letter accused Francis of propagating seven heretical positions concerning marriage, moral life and the sacraments with his 2016 document “The Joy of Love” and subsequent “acts, words and omissions.” The initiative follows another formal act by four tradition-minded cardinals who wrote Francis last year asking him to clarify a series of questions, or “dubbia,” they had about his 2016 text. Francis hasn’t responded to either initiative. The Vatican spokesman didn’t immediately respond to an email seeking comment late Saturday. None of the signatories of the new letter is a cardinal, and the highest-ranking churchman listed is actually someone whose organization has no legal standing in the Catholic Church: Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X. Several other signatories are well-known admirers of the old Latin Mass which Fellay’s followers celebrate. But organizers said the initiative was nevertheless significant and a sign of the concern among a certain contingent of academics and pastors over Francis’ positions, which they said posed a danger to the faithful. “There is a role for theologians and philosophers to explain to people the church’s teaching, to correct misunderstandings,” said Joseph Shaw, a spokesman for the initiative, signatory of the correction and senior research fellow in moral philosophy at Oxford University. When it was released in April 2016, “The Joy of Love” immediately sparked controversy because it opened the door to letting civilly remarried Catholics receive Communion. Church teaching holds that unless these Catholics obtain an annulment — a church decree that their first marriage was invalid — they cannot receive the sacraments, since they are seen as committing adultery. Francis didn’t create a church-wide pass for these Catholics, but suggested — in vague terms and strategically placed footnotes — that bishops and priests could do so on a case-by-case basis after accompanying them on a spiritual journey of discernment. Subsequent comments and writings have made clear he intended such wiggle room, part of his belief that God’s mercy extends in particular to sinners and that the Eucharist isn’t a prize for the perfect but nourishment for the weak. Shaw said none of the four cardinals involved in the initial “dubbia” letter, nor any other cardinal, was involved in the “filial correction.” Organizers said the last time such a correction was issued was to Pope John XXII in 1333 for errors which he later recanted.</quote> Here is the letter: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5FGuFFkfrDvME5seVJ3TkhrRkU/view Very sad the consequences this may have for the Pope who is trying to move the religion forward while others are stuck in the 14th century. I pray he stays strong.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/25/17 11:46:34 PM #2:	The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided? --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887299759] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/25/17 11:48:52 PM #3:	Callixtus posted... The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided? the notion that there needs to be a pope and that he has any authority was only ever a catholic idea. the earliest christians had no such belief or theology. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:887299896] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided?</quote> the notion that there needs to be a pope and that he has any authority was only ever a catholic idea. the earliest christians had no such belief or theology.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lilORANG 09/25/17 11:49:00 PM #4:	He needs to go infallible mode and just spout off a bunch of awesome progressive stuff. --- #FeelTheBern http://i.imgur.com/q5z4CUu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6B9oFXh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sy42Dlf.jpg <cite>lilORANG posted [p:887299903] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>He needs to go infallible mode and just spout off a bunch of awesome progressive stuff.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 09/25/17 11:49:31 PM #5:	Callixtus posted... The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided? The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for. --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 16; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:887299933] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided?</quote> The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lilORANG 09/25/17 11:50:08 PM #6:	PiOverlord posted... The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for. unless of course you read the bible >_> --- #FeelTheBern http://i.imgur.com/q5z4CUu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6B9oFXh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sy42Dlf.jpg <cite>lilORANG posted [p:887299966] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for.</quote> unless of course you read the bible >_></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 09/25/17 11:53:00 PM #7:	lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for. unless of course you read the bible >_> Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. The Pope represents the corruption that Jesus wanted out of the love that God and man should share. --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 16; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:887300121] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for.</quote> unless of course you read the bible >_></quote> Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. The Pope represents the corruption that Jesus wanted out of the love that God and man should share.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lilORANG 09/25/17 11:54:18 PM #8:	PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. --- #FeelTheBern http://i.imgur.com/q5z4CUu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6B9oFXh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sy42Dlf.jpg <cite>lilORANG posted [p:887300176] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Eaglerulez 09/25/17 11:55:42 PM #9:	None of the signatories of the new letter is a cardinal, and the highest-ranking churchman listed is actually someone whose organization has no legal standing in the Catholic Church: Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X. Several other signatories are well-known admirers of the old Latin Mass which Fellays followers celebrate. So...people on the fringe of the Catholic church are complaining about this essentially...who cares? It's not like half the cardinals are up in arms about this or something. --- www.actsofgord.com . Long live Green Earth. Escalators can't break, they can only temporarily become stairs. I Love GREEN TEA <cite>Eaglerulez posted [p:887300259] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><quote>None of the signatories of the new letter is a cardinal, and the highest-ranking churchman listed is actually someone whose organization has no legal standing in the Catholic Church: Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X. Several other signatories are well-known admirers of the old Latin Mass which Fellays followers celebrate.</quote> So...people on the fringe of the Catholic church are complaining about this essentially...who cares? It's not like half the cardinals are up in arms about this or something.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 09/25/17 11:56:37 PM #10:	lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it. --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 16; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:887300293] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lilORANG 09/25/17 11:58:21 PM #11:	PiOverlord posted... lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it. what does your silly opinion have to do with bibles providing foundational authority for the papacy? --- #FeelTheBern http://i.imgur.com/q5z4CUu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6B9oFXh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sy42Dlf.jpg <cite>lilORANG posted [p:887300375] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it.</quote> what does your silly opinion have to do with bibles providing foundational authority for the papacy?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 09/26/17 12:04:09 AM #12:	lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it. what does your silly opinion have to do with bibles providing foundational authority for the papacy? because the Bible does not. The Pope is only a thing because of the need to place someone in power where no one is needed. --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 16; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:887300664] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it.</quote> what does your silly opinion have to do with bibles providing foundational authority for the papacy?</quote> because the Bible does not. The Pope is only a thing because of the need to place someone in power where no one is needed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/26/17 12:06:12 AM #13:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Callixtus posted... The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided? the notion that there needs to be a pope and that he has any authority was only ever a catholic idea. the earliest christians had no such belief or theology. PiOverlord posted... Callixtus posted... The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided? The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for. You both contribute nothing to this topic. As this is an internal dispute among Catholics, it is already assumed by all groups involved that the Pope is a necessary part of the Church. Indeed, conservatives tend to emphasize the authority of the Pope most of all. Your beliefs about the office of the papacy are irrelevant. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887300755] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided?</quote> the notion that there needs to be a pope and that he has any authority was only ever a catholic idea. the earliest christians had no such belief or theology.</quote> <cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided?</quote> The Pope (as a whole, not the current one) is a figure that goes against everything Jesus stood for.</quote> You both contribute nothing to this topic. As this is an internal dispute among Catholics, it is already assumed by all groups involved that the Pope is a necessary part of the Church. Indeed, conservatives tend to emphasize the authority of the Pope most of all. Your beliefs about the office of the papacy are irrelevant.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 09/26/17 12:11:56 AM #14:	The Pope has no place in the Christian lifestyle. --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 16; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:887301007] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>The Pope has no place in the Christian lifestyle.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/26/17 12:13:12 AM #15:	PiOverlord posted... The Pope has no place in the Christian lifestyle. Nice trolling, troll. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887301066] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>The Pope has no place in the Christian lifestyle.</quote> Nice trolling, troll.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BalisticWarri0r 09/26/17 12:16:58 AM #16:	Tag for later. <cite>BalisticWarri0r posted [p:887301228] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>Tag for later.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Callixtus 09/26/17 12:33:51 AM #18:	Ex-Kefiroth posted... The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact. More trolling. The Papacy was not monarchical as it is today in the first few centuries, but it was recognized nearly from the beginning as the first among equals compared to all of the other bishops of the early church. But again, the nature of the Papacy has exactly nothing to do with this topic. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887301936] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote>The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact.</quote> More trolling. The Papacy was not monarchical as it is today in the first few centuries, but it was recognized nearly from the beginning as the first among equals compared to all of the other bishops of the early church. But again, the nature of the Papacy has exactly nothing to do with this topic.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lilORANG 09/26/17 12:35:16 AM #19:	Ex-Kefiroth posted... The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact. There has been a pope since peter lol. --- #FeelTheBernieSanders <cite>lilORANG posted [p:887302002] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote>The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact.</quote> There has been a pope since peter lol.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BalisticWarri0r 09/26/17 8:30:17 AM #20:	lilORANG posted... Ex-Kefiroth posted... The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact. There has been a pope since peter lol. Except Peter was never declared to be pope. It was during the time of Calixtus, who was the bishop of Rome from 218 to 223 where scripture was used to try and "prove" that Peter was the first pope and that the bishop of Rome was his successor. <cite>BalisticWarri0r posted [p:887313366] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote>The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact.</quote> There has been a pope since peter lol.</quote> Except Peter was never declared to be pope. It was during the time of Calixtus, who was the bishop of Rome from 218 to 223 where scripture was used to try and "prove" that Peter was the first pope and that the bishop of Rome was his successor.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romulox28 09/26/17 9:10:39 AM #21:	Ex-Kefiroth posted... The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact. Matthew 16:18 ? --- A Green Butter Alt http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>Romulox28 posted [p:887314610] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote>The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact.</quote> Matthew 16:18 ?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 09/26/17 9:18:27 AM #22:	lilORANG posted... pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. they don't, not really the catechism's justification for papal supremacy is a very liberal interpretation of jesus' placing control of the new church in peter's hands Callixtus posted... The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided? 100% agreed here. possible that they'd rather be 'defeated' by outside forces than inside ones, though. --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:887314897] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. </quote> they don't, not really the catechism's justification for papal supremacy is a very liberal interpretation of jesus' placing control of the new church in peter's hands <cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>The position of these fringe conservatives' is self-defeating. If the Pope can spread heresy, then they've essentially admitted that the Catholic religion is false. The religion entails that the pope has almost final moral authority, and is guided by the Holy Spirit such that he can't lead the Church astray doctrinally. If the pope is indeed spreading heresy, are they essentially claiming that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church? Is the pope's claim to the throne of Peter voided?</quote> 100% agreed here. possible that they'd rather be 'defeated' by outside forces than inside ones, though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DevsBro 09/26/17 9:25:45 AM #23:	If I'm understanding correctly, this just lets divorced-and-remarried people take communion. Which is a good thing. But on the other hand this Pope is terrible in so many other ways, and yet they pick the one good thing he has done to be mad about. --- http://backloggery.com/devsbro/sig.gif http://i.imgur.com/kU5vu5N.png Never pepper popcorn <cite>DevsBro posted [p:887315180] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>If I'm understanding correctly, this just lets divorced-and-remarried people take communion. Which is a good thing. But on the other hand this Pope is terrible in so many other ways, and yet they pick the one good thing he has done to be mad about.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BalisticWarri0r 09/26/17 9:42:45 AM #24:	Romulox28 posted... Ex-Kefiroth posted... The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact. Matthew 16:18 ? The rock that Jesus Christ is talking about here is himself. Later scripture points out that Jesus Christ is whom the church is built upon and that it is he who is the head of the church. <cite>BalisticWarri0r posted [p:887315915] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Romulox28 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote>The establishment of the papacy more-or-less arose in the 4th century as a product of political maneuverings and contingent historical circumstance in favor of the Bishop of Rome (who was not above asserting their supremacy with the aid of forged documents). Biblical justification was manufactured after the fact.</quote> Matthew 16:18 ?</quote> The rock that Jesus Christ is talking about here is himself. Later scripture points out that Jesus Christ is whom the church is built upon and that it is he who is the head of the church.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Solid Sonic 09/26/17 10:16:27 AM #26:	This discussion is rife for fedora-ism. --- DorkLink said I could borrow his signature so I did (see below): <cite>Solid Sonic posted [p:887317318] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>This discussion is rife for fedora-ism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Solid Sonic 09/26/17 10:19:00 AM #27:	PiOverlord posted... lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it. Conceptually confessional doesn't really work in that philosophy either (as confessing one's sins does not need to be borne on another, your line to God and Jesus is entirely your own and no one else has to carry that on your behalf). It's easy to see why there were splits from the Catholic convention. --- DorkLink said I could borrow his signature so I did (see below): <cite>Solid Sonic posted [p:887317420] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it.</quote> Conceptually confessional doesn't really work in that philosophy either (as confessing one's sins does not need to be borne on another, your line to God and Jesus is entirely your own and no one else has to carry that on your behalf). It's easy to see why there were splits from the Catholic convention.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romulox28 09/26/17 10:23:13 AM #28:	Ex-Kefiroth posted... It's seems unusual that 2 of the Gospels would omit what seems like a rather significant statement from Jesus appointing Peter as leader of the church in their account of the same event. As it is widely accepted among scholars that Matthew is derivative of Mark as a source text, it is not unreasonable to believe that Matthew 16:17-19 is simply a spurious insertion by the author(s) of Matthew who may have wished to increase the status of Peter within the early church. there are lots of things that are only in one of gospels, such as Lazarus being brought back to life, but they're still canon to Catholics. honestly if you are going to be a Catholic you can't be entirely sola scriptura or whatever it's called. most of the Catholic faith is based on sacred tradition anyway --- A Green Butter Alt http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>Romulox28 posted [p:887317604] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote> It's seems unusual that 2 of the Gospels would omit what seems like a rather significant statement from Jesus appointing Peter as leader of the church in their account of the same event. As it is widely accepted among scholars that Matthew is derivative of Mark as a source text, it is not unreasonable to believe that Matthew 16:17-19 is simply a spurious insertion by the author(s) of Matthew who may have wished to increase the status of Peter within the early church.</quote> there are lots of things that are only in one of gospels, such as Lazarus being brought back to life, but they're still canon to Catholics. honestly if you are going to be a Catholic you can't be entirely sola scriptura or whatever it's called. most of the Catholic faith is based on sacred tradition anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChromaticAngel 09/26/17 10:31:44 AM #29:	Ex-Kefiroth posted... It's seems unusual that 2 of the Gospels would omit what seems like a rather significant statement from Jesus appointing Peter as leader of the church in their account of the same event. Once you open up one part of the gospel to being lies, you open up all of it. --- https://puu.sh/tcLsT/24f4611235.png <cite>ChromaticAngel posted [p:887318011] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote> It's seems unusual that 2 of the Gospels would omit what seems like a rather significant statement from Jesus appointing Peter as leader of the church in their account of the same event. </quote> Once you open up one part of the gospel to being lies, you open up all of it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dustin1280 09/26/17 10:35:03 AM #30:	Pope Francis is doing GOOD for catholics, if he gets ousted that is only going to cause a further divide for the highly religious. --- RIP: Canuklehead, Karma: 1369 --he delivered! RIP: Orlando of the Axe, Karma: 1642 --he delivered! <cite>Dustin1280 posted [p:887318165] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>Pope Francis is doing GOOD for catholics, if he gets ousted that is only going to cause a further divide for the highly religious.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/26/17 10:35:46 AM #31:	lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:887318208] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/26/17 10:36:00 AM #32:	Darkman124 posted... they don't, not really the catechism's justification for papal supremacy is a very liberal interpretation of jesus' placing control of the new church in peter's hands this is exactly correct <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:887318216] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>they don't, not really the catechism's justification for papal supremacy is a very liberal interpretation of jesus' placing control of the new church in peter's hands </quote> this is exactly correct</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/26/17 10:37:26 AM #33:	Romulox28 posted... honestly if you are going to be a Catholic you can't be entirely sola scriptura or whatever it's called. most of the Catholic faith is based on sacred tradition anyway and therein lies the problem - catholics don't want to admit this, so they try to reinterpret things in the gospels to make it sound like the papacy was around since the beginning even though it wasn't and even though peter wasn't a "pope" since such a concept didn't even exist back then <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:887318274] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Romulox28 posted...</cite> <quote>honestly if you are going to be a Catholic you can't be entirely sola scriptura or whatever it's called. most of the Catholic faith is based on sacred tradition anyway </quote> and therein lies the problem - catholics don't want to admit this, so they try to reinterpret things in the gospels to make it sound like the papacy was around since the beginning even though it wasn't and even though peter wasn't a "pope" since such a concept didn't even exist back then</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romulox28 09/26/17 10:41:19 AM #34:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Romulox28 posted... honestly if you are going to be a Catholic you can't be entirely sola scriptura or whatever it's called. most of the Catholic faith is based on sacred tradition anyway and therein lies the problem - catholics don't want to admit this, so they try to reinterpret things in the gospels to make it sound like the papacy was around since the beginning even though it wasn't and even though peter wasn't a "pope" since such a concept didn't even exist back then idk what you mean, Catholics will readily admit this, it's the foundation of their faith. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm --- A Green Butter Alt http://i.imgur.com/LhwwG.gif <cite>Romulox28 posted [p:887318485] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Romulox28 posted...</cite> <quote>honestly if you are going to be a Catholic you can't be entirely sola scriptura or whatever it's called. most of the Catholic faith is based on sacred tradition anyway </quote> and therein lies the problem - catholics don't want to admit this, so they try to reinterpret things in the gospels to make it sound like the papacy was around since the beginning even though it wasn't and even though peter wasn't a "pope" since such a concept didn't even exist back then</quote> idk what you mean, Catholics will readily admit this, it's the foundation of their faith. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BalisticWarri0r 09/26/17 10:44:24 AM #35:	FLUFFYGERM posted... lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started. Catholicism draws heavily from ancient babylonian mystery religions. Interesting that catholicism had influence from mithraism, which had the "father" of that religion both seated in Rome. <cite>BalisticWarri0r posted [p:887318621] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started.</quote> Catholicism draws heavily from ancient babylonian mystery religions. Interesting that catholicism had influence from mithraism, which had the "father" of that religion both seated in Rome.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 09/26/17 10:46:21 AM #36:	>conservative >Catholic theologians These things shouldn't go together. Why is politics being mixed with religion? --- Shenmue II = best game of all time Shenmue = 2nd best game of all time <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:887318718] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>>conservative >Catholic theologians These things shouldn't go together. Why is politics being mixed with religion?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Callixtus 09/26/17 10:51:15 AM #38:	Solid Sonic posted... PiOverlord posted... lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it. Conceptually confessional doesn't really work in that philosophy either (as confessing one's sins does not need to be borne on another, your line to God and Jesus is entirely your own and no one else has to carry that on your behalf). It's easy to see why there were splits from the Catholic convention. Even the Orthodox recognized at least the primacy of the papacy as the first among equals. It's not until the 1500s that you get this wholesale rejection of the papacy or the primacy of Rome, and a slew of other heresies with the Reformation. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887318968] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Solid Sonic posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> Nope. The Pope puts a single man on a pedestal much higher than any man should be. God sent Jesus so that all of us have the same access to God's love and forgiveness without the need of another man to gain it.</quote> Conceptually confessional doesn't really work in that philosophy either (as confessing one's sins does not need to be borne on another, your line to God and Jesus is entirely your own and no one else has to carry that on your behalf). It's easy to see why there were splits from the Catholic convention.</quote> Even the Orthodox recognized at least the primacy of the papacy as the first among equals. It's not until the 1500s that you get this wholesale rejection of the papacy or the primacy of Rome, and a slew of other heresies with the Reformation.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GiftedACIII 09/26/17 10:51:19 AM #39:	Wonder what country these hooligans are from --- </topic> <cite>GiftedACIII posted [p:887318971] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>Wonder what country these hooligans are from</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/26/17 10:55:17 AM #40:	BalisticWarri0r posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started. Catholicism draws heavily from ancient babylonian mystery religions. Interesting that catholicism had influence from mithraism, which had the "father" of that religion both seated in Rome. Do you have a citation for this slander? As far as I know, the Romans considered Mithraism a religion from the East, not one based in Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887319182] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>BalisticWarri0r posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started.</quote> Catholicism draws heavily from ancient babylonian mystery religions. Interesting that catholicism had influence from mithraism, which had the "father" of that religion both seated in Rome.</quote> Do you have a citation for this slander? As far as I know, the Romans considered Mithraism a religion from the East, not one based in Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BalisticWarri0r 09/26/17 11:15:40 AM #41:	Callixtus posted... BalisticWarri0r posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... lilORANG posted... PiOverlord posted... Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible. pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy. they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started. Catholicism draws heavily from ancient babylonian mystery religions. Interesting that catholicism had influence from mithraism, which had the "father" of that religion both seated in Rome. Do you have a citation for this slander? As far as I know, the Romans considered Mithraism a religion from the East, not one based in Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism Mithraism did draw from eastern religions. But it was very big in the Roman community. The head priest of this religion was called the pater patrum, the same title that is also given to the Pope. But mithraism is not only thing that catholicism has drawn from. The fish god that the Phillistines worshipped, Dagon is heavily seen in catholicism. The mitre that the pope wears on his head is the same as seen in ancient drawings of dagon. As well as the fisherman's ring which was worn by the dagon high priest which is also worn by the pope. http://www.mygodpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Philistine-God-Dagon-gt409.jpg http://biblelight.net/dagon4.jpg <cite>BalisticWarri0r posted [p:887320220] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BalisticWarri0r posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>lilORANG posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Catholics have a distorted version of the Bible.</quote> pretty sure all bibles contain the same basic foundation for the papacy.</quote> they don't, actually. there was no conception of a "papacy" of any kind in the original text or in the earliest faith. the entire vernacular around a papacy was a catholic invention when catholicism first started.</quote> Catholicism draws heavily from ancient babylonian mystery religions. Interesting that catholicism had influence from mithraism, which had the "father" of that religion both seated in Rome.</quote> Do you have a citation for this slander? As far as I know, the Romans considered Mithraism a religion from the East, not one based in Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism</quote> Mithraism did draw from eastern religions. But it was very big in the Roman community. The head priest of this religion was called the pater patrum, the same title that is also given to the Pope. But mithraism is not only thing that catholicism has drawn from. The fish god that the Phillistines worshipped, Dagon is heavily seen in catholicism. The mitre that the pope wears on his head is the same as seen in ancient drawings of dagon. As well as the fisherman's ring which was worn by the dagon high priest which is also worn by the pope. http://www.mygodpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Philistine-God-Dagon-gt409.jpg http://biblelight.net/dagon4.jpg</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/26/17 11:23:26 AM #42:	Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887320649] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
K181 09/26/17 11:29:06 AM #43:	The vast, vast majority of Catholics love Pope Francis and what he's doing. A significant minority likes him but wishes that he'd change his tune or attention on a few issues. A small minority dislike him. And an absolutely tiny, but vocal, minority think he's awful. This is just an example of the tiny but vocal with a bark worse than their bite. --- The poster formerly known as Kakarot181: July 2, 2002 - March 14, 2012. Irregardless, for all intensive purposes, I could care less. <cite>K181 posted [p:887320976] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>The vast, vast majority of Catholics love Pope Francis and what he's doing. A significant minority likes him but wishes that he'd change his tune or attention on a few issues. A small minority dislike him. And an absolutely tiny, but vocal, minority think he's awful. This is just an example of the tiny but vocal with a bark worse than their bite.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 09/26/17 11:29:37 AM #44:	Ex-Kefiroth posted... Damn_Underscore posted... >conservative >Catholic theologians These things shouldn't go together. Why is politics being mixed with religion? "Conservative" can have a meaning outside the context of politics you know. People also say thatpope Francis is a "liberal" pope. Sad that everything is about politics these days --- Shenmue II = best game of all time Shenmue = 2nd best game of all time <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:887321016] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ex-Kefiroth posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>>conservative >Catholic theologians These things shouldn't go together. Why is politics being mixed with religion?</quote> "Conservative" can have a meaning outside the context of politics you know.</quote> People also say thatpope Francis is a "liberal" pope. Sad that everything is about politics these days</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BalisticWarri0r 09/26/17 11:29:50 AM #45:	Callixtus posted... Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism. I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html <cite>BalisticWarri0r posted [p:887321026] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism.</quote> I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/26/17 11:35:33 AM #46:	BalisticWarri0r posted... Callixtus posted... Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism. I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html Yeah I just wanted to see what conspiracy theory-esque website you were drawing your delusions from. Now I know. Thanks. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887321316] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>BalisticWarri0r posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism.</quote> I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html</quote> Yeah I just wanted to see what conspiracy theory-esque website you were drawing your delusions from. Now I know. Thanks.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BalisticWarri0r 09/26/17 11:55:47 AM #47:	Callixtus posted... BalisticWarri0r posted... Callixtus posted... Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism. I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html Yeah I just wanted to see what conspiracy theory-esque website you were drawing your delusions from. Now I know. Thanks. Ah typical catholic mindset. <cite>BalisticWarri0r posted [p:887322347] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BalisticWarri0r posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism.</quote> I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html</quote> Yeah I just wanted to see what conspiracy theory-esque website you were drawing your delusions from. Now I know. Thanks.</quote> Ah typical catholic mindset.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
weapon_d00d816 09/26/17 12:00:03 PM #48:	I do question his motives though. It feels like he's taking it in a direction where it's like why even be Catholic? I mean I'm an atheist so ultimately I'd like to see the religion become more lax, but you kinda have to wonder what exactly he envisions for the Catholic church. --- SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG <cite>weapon_d00d816 posted [p:887322584] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote>I do question his motives though. It feels like he's taking it in a direction where it's like why even be Catholic? I mean I'm an atheist so ultimately I'd like to see the religion become more lax, but you kinda have to wonder what exactly he envisions for the Catholic church.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Callixtus 09/26/17 12:04:16 PM #49:	BalisticWarri0r posted... Callixtus posted... BalisticWarri0r posted... Callixtus posted... Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism. I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html Yeah I just wanted to see what conspiracy theory-esque website you were drawing your delusions from. Now I know. Thanks. Ah typical catholic mindset. So you're telling me I should engage in debatimg a website that can't even get basic latin right such as Sol Invictus, says St. Jerome's name was Eusebius Heirymonius Sophronius, and says Mithraism was the primary religion of the Roman Empire in the 200s BCE, despite the Roman Empire, as we cal it, not even existing yet and the scholarly consensus holding it wasn't prevalent until the 1st century CE, ie 200 years later. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism?wprov=sfla1) And that's just from a cursory glance. Doesn't help that it cites to no authorities either. --- It will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. \| I did not come to bring peace to the earth, but the sword. -Jesus <cite>Callixtus posted [p:887322803] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>BalisticWarri0r posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BalisticWarri0r posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Callixtus posted...</cite> <quote>Still waiting for a source on these "influences" on Catholicism.</quote> I mean you could literally Google it and I could post links and resources of research. But you are going to claim it false anyway. Here is just one you could read. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/mithraism.html</quote> Yeah I just wanted to see what conspiracy theory-esque website you were drawing your delusions from. Now I know. Thanks.</quote> Ah typical catholic mindset.</quote> So you're telling me I should engage in debatimg a website that can't even get basic latin right such as Sol Invictus, says St. Jerome's name was Eusebius Heirymonius Sophronius, and says Mithraism was the primary religion of the Roman Empire in the 200s BCE, despite the Roman Empire, as we cal it, not even existing yet and the scholarly consensus holding it wasn't prevalent until the 1st century CE, ie 200 years later. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism?wprov=sfla1) And that's just from a cursory glance. Doesn't help that it cites to no authorities either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Solid Sonic 09/26/17 12:05:19 PM #50:	weapon_d00d816 posted... I do question his motives though. It feels like he's taking it in a direction where it's like why even be Catholic? I mean I'm an atheist so ultimately I'd like to see the religion become more lax, but you kinda have to wonder what exactly he envisions for the Catholic church. It's just modernization and progressiveism. Imagine when you're like...72 and by then a Catholic who grew up in the Millennial generation becomes Pope. Change is not something to be feared. --- DorkLink said I could borrow his signature so I did (see below): <cite>Solid Sonic posted [p:887322861] in Pope Franc... [t:75807292]...</cite> <quote><cite>weapon_d00d816 posted...</cite> <quote>I do question his motives though. It feels like he's taking it in a direction where it's like why even be Catholic? I mean I'm an atheist so ultimately I'd like to see the religion become more lax, but you kinda have to wonder what exactly he envisions for the Catholic church.</quote> It's just modernization and progressiveism. Imagine when you're like...72 and by then a Catholic who grew up in the Millennial generation becomes Pope. Change is not something to be feared.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Pope Francis accused of spreading heresy by conservative Catholic theologians