Current Events > Why is Metal Gear Solid 2 the best game ever made?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Discuss.

Butt ass naked cartwheels
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Nothing to report.
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Snake jacking off while accepting a call from Otacon
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There were a ton of Raiden sympathizers when MGS2 came out SPOILERS!

I don't know if you guys remember correctly but there were a fair share of people who actually loved the surprise of using Raiden instead of Solid. In fact a ton of them said Raiden was better than Snake.

1. Raiden was a killer at a young age
2. Raiden was furthered trained by Solidus
3. Raiden apparently defeated a simulation of the Shadow Moses incident with flying colors
3. Destroyed a ton of fucking Metal Gears while Snake struggled with one
4. He then went on to beat his own mentor Solidus

Comments?
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Veggeta X posted...

3. Raiden apparently defeated a simulation of the Shadow Moses incident with flying colors
3. Destroyed a ton of fucking Metal Gears while Snake struggled with one

Huh, I guess I never really thought about this, but they're fair points.

Because we managed to avoid drowning!
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It's like, simultaneously the best metal gear s and the worst at the same time. Honestly It's rather impressive feat how it can tow that line.
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pretty much everything that happens after the colonel is revealed to be an AI
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- great story & characters, even more relevant today (very prescient given how tech has advanced since 2001)
- top notch pacing and atmosphere
- some sick boss battles
- intuitive controls
- tons of gameplay mechanics that were like 10 years ahead of their time
- graphics and art style that still look fantastic today
- lots of little easter eggs, secrets, and little touches that show how much time & care went into the game
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I respect any game that takes chances with such a fickle community. MGs2 is probably my favorite MGS
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Romulox28 posted...

-great story & characters, even more relevant today

This is the thing that always throws me through a loop. I know now it's popular to write Kojima off as a hack with his head up his ass, but the foresight he showed with MGS2 is stunning.

I like MGS2 cuz it's one of the few video games to feature a chick with armpit hair.
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SuperGamer5 posted...

Romulox28 posted...

-great story & characters, even more relevant today

This is the thing that always throws me through a loop. I know now it's popular to write Kojima off as a hack with his head up his ass, but the foresight he showed with MGS2 is stunning.

yea definitely. the whole "meme" element of MGS2 blows my mind because it is very accurate to how information and worldviews are created in 2017 thanks to the internet, widespread mass communication, social media, etc. in a lot of ways MGS2 is like a nightmare version of today's world, where the very real concept of memetic information creating our reality is taken to its extreme.
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It's the best story ever put into a video game. It took people years to understand that Kojima made a game that was just as much about the making of the game and the cycle of hype surrounding it as it was about terrorists kidnapping the president.
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CW_McGraw posted...

It's the best story ever put into a video game. It took people years to understand that Kojima made a game that was just as much about the making of the game and the cycle of hype surrounding it as it was about terrorists kidnapping the president.

There's like three different things going on at once, and it nails all of them.

You've got your straightforward terrorist plot, but the underlying subtext of that deals with meme culture shaping the mainstream. Then on top of that, you've got the entire game serving up a metanarrative about the expectations of sequels.

amazing codec calls more so than mgs1
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mgsv is the best mgs
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Renault posted...

mgsv is the best mgs

It absolutely had the potential to be. I was one of the few people that liked the twist, and the gameplay is phenomenal, but the unfinished nature that led to the ending and repetition in the second chapter holds it back in my opinion.

I still really like the game, and it's one of my favorites of the series, but I think MGS2 beats it out.

It's not.

MGS2 is probably the most carefully and thoughtfully designed game of all time. But this actually works to its disadvantage as much as its advantage.

Kojima first announced that the game would be postmodern, a term shared by artists who put soup cans and urinals into museums knowing that the context of the museum and the prestige of the artist's signature will cause them to convince themselves that it is quality work when in fact it's really a worthless mess that doesn't belong in a museum and its s tsyement has nothing to do with the work itself.

It's a terrible idea to announce that this is the intention of your game before release, but the ironic thing is that hype remained high even through the announcement and players fell right into it just as hard if not harder.

And the game totally has its issues. It looks like good design but it actually makes for a frustrating experience. Guards are too smart. They'll surround you and flank you if you try to hide. They'll follow your blood trail if you're bleeding. They do regular status reports so you can't just kill them when they're in the way. They do a comprehensive search of your last kown location, including inside of vents after every alert phase. In most of the areas of the game, it's easier just to let them kill you than to try to lose them. Steut F has boxes that are obstacles instead of hiding places. Strut D has those stupid cornered balconies where enemies can see you from a different floor. And there's no reward either. The player goes to great lengths to accomplish his goals while Raiden regularly thwarts his efforts in the following cutscenes by hesitating or running away.

But even this was a misdirection as the entire game is extremely carefully designed. After the Tanker mission showed that the developers were fully capable of making a fantastic MGS2, they essentially start over, complete with tutorials on stuff we already saw tutorials on before we are thrown into this frustratingly overdesigned portion that will be the majority of the game. Then whole illusion that it thinks it's this fantastic masterpiece dissolves away near the end at precisely the time that it finally fills you in on exactly what it did there, that it did it on purpose, why and what real-world relevence this has to human psychology. It's extremely effective.

But effective and good are two different things. Being effective doesn't change the fact that all these problems still exist. It's an unrewarding, frustrting game. It's just one that makes a really good point.
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it had the AI Colonel and Rose convo back in 20 fucking 01
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DevsBro posted...

It's not.

MGS2 is probably the most carefully and thoughtfully designed game of all time. But this actually works to its disadvantage as much as its advantage.

Kojima first announced that the game would be postmodern, a term shared by artists who put soup cans and urinals into museums knowing that the context of the museum and the prestige of the artist's signature will cause them to convince themselves that it is quality work when in fact it's really a worthless mess that doesn't belong in a museum and its s tsyement has nothing to do with the work itself.

It's a terrible idea to announce that this is the intention of your game before release, but the ironic thing is that hype remained high even through the announcement and players fell right into it just as hard if not harder.

And the game totally has its issues. It looks like good design but it actually makes for a frustrating experience. Guards are too smart. They'll surround you and flank you if you try to hide. They'll follow your blood trail if you're bleeding. They do regular status reports so you can't just kill them when they're in the way. They do a comprehensive search of your last kown location, including inside of vents after every alert phase. In most of the areas of the game, it's easier just to let them kill you than to try to lose them. Steut F has boxes that are obstacles instead of hiding places. Strut D has those stupid cornered balconies where enemies can see you from a different floor. And there's no reward either. The player goes to great lengths to accomplish his goals while Raiden regularly thwarts his efforts in the following cutscenes by hesitating or running away.

But even this was a misdirection as the entire game is extremely carefully designed. After the Tanker mission showed that the developers were fully capable of making a fantastic MGS2, they essentially start over, complete with tutorials on stuff we already saw tutorials on before we are thrown into this frustratingly overdesigned portion that will be the majority of the game. Then whole illusion that it thinks it's this fantastic masterpiece dissolves away near the end at precisely the time that it finally fills you in on exactly what it did there, that it did it on purpose, why and what real-world relevence this has to human psychology. It's extremely effective.

But effective and good are two different things. Being effective doesn't change the fact that all these problems still exist. It's an unrewarding, frustrting game. It's just one that makes a really good point.

DevsBro posted...

Kojima first announced that the game would be postmodern, a term shared by artists who put soup cans and urinals into museums knowing that the context of the museum and the prestige of the artist's signature will cause them to convince themselves that it is quality work when in fact it's really a worthless mess that doesn't belong in a museum and its s tsyement has nothing to do with the work itself.

It's a terrible idea to announce that this is the intention of your game before release, but the ironic thing is that hype remained high even through the announcement and players fell right into it just as hard if not harder.

:thinking:
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