Current Events > This 21 y/o NON-BINARY LGBT Student was KILLED by Police causing OUTRAGE!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

I agree with the mom asking why they didn't use a taser. They could have subdued him and gotten him psychiatric help instead of killing him. Cops are not supposed to be executioners and it sets a bad precedent to allow cops to kill someone if they say they wanted to be shot.
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NeonOctopus posted...

Cops are allowed to shoot someone if they have a knife within 20 feet charging at them iirc >_>

If that's a policy then that makes some sense, but man.. it could have been resolved a lot less messier.
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I wish we could stop with this whole non-binary nonsense. :U unless you're a little green alien you're binary.
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if they weren't charging or were approaching any less than clearly threateningly while also yelling 'shoot me' then it seems more like they got what they wanted baiting out standard fare

don't believe the cops shouldn be prosecuted for that necessarily, but it does sound like a scenario where nonlethal measure could have been used in an attempt to subdue them, as they likely needed their psychological unwellness treated more than the death they asked for, and more care needs to be placed on the nuance of these situations rather than exacting the most extreme measures first and foremost

but hey if it is shown without a doubt to be suicide by cop and I believe physician assisted suicide should be available in some capacity then it becomes harder to mourn the result rather than just disapprove of the method taken
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Cops killing suicidal people is a strange thing. They likely aren't really equipped to handle such people, and the suicidal person knows it - it's why they seek them out. But some work should be put towards it so they can try to do better.

Did they know if this case the person was suicidal, or did they just know they were "a threat" because if that is all they knew, they need to treat it seriously just in case.
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Funkydog posted...

Cops killing suicidal people is a strange thing. They likely aren't really equipped to handle such people, and the suicidal person knows it - it's why they seek them out. But some work should be put towards it so they can try to do better.

Did they know if this case the person was suicidal, or did they just know they were "a threat" because if that is all they knew, they need to treat it seriously just in case.

Well, look at it this way. :o you get to kill yourself AND make yourself into a political martyr. And it doesn't even look like a suicide most the time. Cops are so trigger happy these days all you have to do is pull out a pocket knife and you've got 10 cops willing to turn you into swiss cheese.

If I ever wanted to kill myself (I never would, I love myself too much, don't worry) that's how I'd want to go.
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Looks like someone brought a knife to a gun fight.
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Leftists rioting over another justified shoot. Add it to the long list.

Kineth posted...

NeonOctopus posted...

Cops are allowed to shoot someone if they have a knife within 20 feet charging at them iirc >_>

If that's a policy then that makes some sense, but man.. it could have been resolved a lot less messier.

True, but using karate kick to disarm the knife is a lot less reliable than shooting at center mass.

Ammonitida posted...

Kineth posted...

NeonOctopus posted...

Cops are allowed to shoot someone if they have a knife within 20 feet charging at them iirc >_>

If that's a policy then that makes some sense, but man.. it could have been resolved a lot less messier.

True, but using karate kick to disarm the knife is a lot less reliable than shooting at center mass.

Using a taser and/or a baton + having backup would likely work very effectively. Plus aren't cops supposed to be trained with submission techniques?
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Kineth posted...

Ammonitida posted...

Kineth posted...

NeonOctopus posted...

Cops are allowed to shoot someone if they have a knife within 20 feet charging at them iirc >_>

If that's a policy then that makes some sense, but man.. it could have been resolved a lot less messier.

True, but using karate kick to disarm the knife is a lot less reliable than shooting at center mass.

Using a taser and/or a baton + having backup would likely work very effectively.

A taser on a man with a knife? Too risky. Tasers are unreliable in such situations which often involve people high on drugs. Police protocol is to draw your firearm when confronted by a man with a deadly weapon.

Backup just means another gun pointed at center mass, ready to fire. You're really asking cops to get in close with a stick and risk being gutted by a knife wielding crazy man. Cops want to live to see the next day too.

I think the issue here is that the shooter was a cop.

If some random civilian shot someone charging at them with a knife asking to be shot, the general reaction would be "fair next". But people who want any excuse to rag on cops will whine about how the cops "didn't have to shoot them!"
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truly odd that people expect those trained to protect and subdue to do that more reliably than others
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I mean it sucks but I don't understand at all why people intentionally attempting to cause deadly harm should expect a certain level of treatment.

I'm all for trying the taser. If I knew that it would be exactly as easy and exactly as effective, that's what I would pick. But I don't know why this would ever be the expectation.
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I think that certain level of treatment is largely called upon when people think the claim of intentionally attempting to cause deadly harm is dubious or misplaced

it is the expectation brought up whenever the result you want to effectively reach is that all parties live
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I would have shot him too. It was in the middle of a non peaceful protest and the boy was acting very aggressive telling police to shot him while he refused to put down the knife. Having a mental illness only makes him more unpredictable and potentially dangerous.
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CADE FOSTER posted...

Ban guns
ban knifes
Ban nra

problem solved

Yeah, violating people's rights to free speech and possession of arms in one fell swoop.
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Ammonitida posted...

A taser on a man with a knife? Too risky. Tasers are unreliable in such situations which often involve people high on drugs. Police protocol is to draw your firearm when confronted by a man with a deadly weapon.

Backup just means another gun pointed at center mass, ready to fire. You're really asking cops to get in close with a stick and risk being gutted by a knife wielding crazy man. Cops want to live to see the next day too.

I mean, cops manage in other countries doing it, so I'm not sure why Americans couldn't either.
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HeyyItsProphet posted...

I would have shot him too. It was in the middle of a non peaceful protest and the boy was acting very aggressive telling police to shot him while he refused to put down the knife. Having a mental illness only makes him more unpredictable and potentially dangerous.

This, and why is thid guy at a violent protest to begin with if he is the leader of a LGBT group with a bright future?
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Ammonitida posted...

Police protocol is to draw your firearm when confronted by a man with a deadly weapon.

Backup just means another gun pointed at center mass, ready to fire. You're really asking cops to get in close with a stick and risk being gutted by a knife wielding crazy man. Cops want to live to see the next day too.

It would stand to reason that having someone outnumbered, with physically trained officers would not necessitate needing a second gun as opposed to the option employing less deadly restraint protocol. Yes, one should keep their gun drawn, but the others can initiate the perp with the goal of ganging up on them and overpowering him. I understand that cops want to live and yes, it's reasonable for them to worry about their safety, but that shouldn't cause them to forego having reasonable responses.

A taser on a man with a knife? Too risky. Tasers are unreliable in such situations which often involve people high on drugs.

Which leads me to this. What is the point of a taser anyway? If they're so damned ineffective, why are they even a standard part of police equipment? On top of that, not every perp is a person hopped up on PCP. Yes, shit like that happens, but treating every perp like they're as guilty as that drugged out user is not right. It's right to be cautious of that, sure, but not fair to assume. Still I'm pretty sure police baton can handle and block a knife strike. It would also then create opportunity, supposing the officers are coordinated, to flank the perp and catch them off-guard allowing for them to be subdued.

Hell, there's pepper spray and rubber bullets. There's plenty of options to mitigate the situation without someone dying and the precedents that could be set by this/what you argue are not good for any free nation.
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MysticMismagius posted...

I think the issue here is that the shooter was a cop.

If some random civilian shot someone charging at them with a knife asking to be shot, the general reaction would be "fair next". But people who want any excuse to rag on cops will whine about how the cops "didn't have to shoot them!"

So yes, it's obviously a different set of circumstances as one is a situation that is part of a person's job and the other is not, which is why the question of how protocol and resolution come up specifically with cops and not with your average person on the street.

Also, to suggest that any criticism of how the police operate is because people are trying to denigrate cops, you've already made up your mind about how you feel things are and had no intent on listening to the criticism.
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Watched the video.

Fair, next.
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Sure the cop could have ATTEMPTED to non-lethally detain this person, but that is by no means what they should have done.

A crazy person brandishing a knife was ignoring warnings and continuing to approach them all the while yelling SHOOT ME. The cops handled it exactly as they SHOULD HAVE. Would it have been nice if they attempted non-lethal means, sure, but I definitely don't blame them for resolving the threatening situation the way they did...
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TheMikh posted...

Sounds like suicide by cop. But I absolutely believe cops should use tasers or rubber bullets instead of lethal force, especially for those who aren't using guns.

Lol

Neither is going to stop every time.

Within 21 feet a guy with a knife will close the distance and slice a cop to ribbons before a cop can draw their gun and fire.

A cop doesn't have to be cut up to make people feel better.
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i mean the cops were called about someone who was armed both with a knife and possibly a firearm. this douche then starts waving a knife around and egging the cops on while ignoring all of their orders. could the cops have tried something else other than shooting him? sure, but i sure as shit wouldn't start rioting over this fucking idiot who wanted to die and was threatening others.
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Now I remember why I stopped posting here.
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Fair, next.

If you threaten someone with a lethal weapon you deserve whatever comes your way.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

FantomPayne posted...

Why didn't they just shoot the knife out of his hands?

Impractical to do so. It is a small moving target and the likelihood of missing is high. Aiming for the center of mass is recommended since shots there are effective at stopping the threat and it is relatively easy to hit.

You actually answered that post seriously XD
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I haven't seen video, I will later
But maybe they were going by the 21 rule

IF you don't have your gun draw yet, and the attacker with a knife
is within 21 feet, you will get stabbed before you you draw your gun
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Dustin1280 posted...

Sure the cop could have ATTEMPTED to non-lethally detain this person, but that is by no means what they should have done.

A crazy person brandishing a knife was ignoring warnings and continuing to approach them all the while yelling SHOOT ME. The cops handled it exactly as they SHOULD HAVE. Would it have been nice if they attempted non-lethal means, sure, but I definitely don't blame them for resolving the threatening situation the way they did...

He did. With verbal commands. Met with aggression.
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Fair, next. Don't be threatening people, especially ones with armed weapons.
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Dumbass should have dropped the knife
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