Current Events > When did race relations start getting worse again?

(+) Yeah! (+)

DuranOfForcena posted...

when the first black president took office and all the good ole boys got so butthurt that they started a campaign of bigotry and racism unabashed

I'm sure this gets you lots of likes on Tumblr, but it's not at all supported by the data. Like I said, look at the poll in 41. Race relations went to shit starting with the Trayvon shooting. They were more or less the same after Obama was elected.
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These issues have always been there, it's the prevalence of social media and the rise of people being able to capture images and videos of incidents, as well as being able to push certain messages and agendas easier. It's not the "blame" of any group and you'd be idiotic to say people didn't express or there wasn't an underbelly of racial tension in this country forever. But things like cell phones capturing images and social media pushing them, then the rise of basically anyone able to say any opinion on said subject matters and mass broadcast that is what made these things visible.

People who act as if the 90s or 2000s were some mass time of racial harmony are deluding themselves to reality or simply too young to remember or recognize that. Or, like most people, they were isolated in their own world and oblivious to the problems and opinions of others.
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The relations themselves are worse because of social media. The actual conditions of the various races in America may not have changed much or may have even gotten better over time, but social media allowed the discrepancies that remained to take center stage.
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The Admiral posted...

I'm sure this gets you lots of likes on Tumblr, but it's not at all supported by the data. Like I said, look at the poll in 41. Race relations went to shit starting with the Trayvon shooting. They were more or less the same after Obama was elected.

Those polls you are pointing to could easily also be linked to the rise of Twitter, YouTube, smart phones, and other similar technological advances that led to the increase in polarization of events. There's less racial tension when people aren't exposed to reality of others and can live in their own bubbles.

You trying to blame this on the liberals/left, which you do for every fucking thing in the world, is simply wrong.
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

These issues have always been there, it's the prevalence of social media and the rise of people being able to capture images and videos of incidents, as well as being able to push certain messages and agendas easier. It's not the "blame" of any group and you'd be idiotic to say people didn't express or there wasn't an underbelly of racial tension in this country forever. But things like cell phones capturing images and social media pushing them, then the rise of basically anyone able to say any opinion on said subject matters and mass broadcast that is what made these things visible.

People who act as if the 90s or 2000s were some mass time of racial harmony are deluding themselves to reality or simply too young to remember or recognize that. Or, like most people, they were isolated in their own world and oblivious to the problems and opinions of others.

100% on the ball.
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--kresnik-- posted...

When obama took sides onthe Trayvon matting thing.

This for sure was the biggest turning point. After all the revelations of media race-baiting conspiracy, video editing, and general slander towards George Zimmerman, Obama's comment felt like a slap in the face to everyone who was already duped by yellow journalism.

The Admiral posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

One side living in blissful ignorance white the other stews in silent resentment isn't 'objectively better.'

That's not what the poll in 41 shows. Both white and black people reported better race relations then and worse race relations now.

The poll is a reflection of personal opinions. The only objective observation you can make is that the poll takers have those specific opinions. You can't apply that to thirty years of the evolving racial zeitgeist. Especially in the current media landscape. The poll also misses from majorly divisive moments from the nineties including the trial that more or less codified the format for what would become the 24 hour news cycle, and the racial tension in LA in the late eighties and early nineties.

Regardless, to carry my metaphor over from that earlier post, we're in the middle of an argument where we're directly addressing topics we're been afraid to name for forty years. Of course current morale is low. Who feels good in the middle of an argument?
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Those polls you are pointing to could easily also be linked to the rise of Twitter, YouTube, smart phones, and other similar technological advances that led to the increase in polarization of events. There's less racial tension when people aren't exposed to reality of others and can live in their own bubbles.

Smartphones and the internet were well established prior to 2013
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The Admiral posted...

Yeah, and that was a police issue, not a race issue between black and white citizens. The fact that liberals now blame these things on white privilege and white supremacy, along with the fact that BLM always has some group of idiots chanting anti-white racist shit at their rallies, has tanked relations.

I'm a liberal and I blame it entirely on the police

DuranOfForcena posted...

The Admiral posted...

I'm sure this gets you lots of likes on Tumblr,

tumblr? fuck off with this bullshit, what the fuck is your problem?

That your post making lazy accusations of racism was full of shit. And now you're having a hissy fit for getting called out on it.
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In order for them to be worse, that means they were better before. I don't buy that, we're more vocal of issues, but the issues themselves were still issues 5, 10, 20,30,etc years ago. In order for the issues to change you both need people to speak up, but also people willing to listen. And more people are starting to listen.
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

The Admiral posted...

Yeah, and that was a police issue, not a race issue between black and white citizens. The fact that liberals now blame these things on white privilege and white supremacy, along with the fact that BLM always has some group of idiots chanting anti-white racist shit at their rallies, has tanked relations.

I'm a liberal and I blame it entirely on the police

You should blame other liberals then for building this bridge between the police and white people via identity politics and white privilege rhetoric. There is no logical reason police brutality should strain relations between non-police citizens. It only does so because stupidity on the left that says shit like "police discrimination is a form of white supremacy" and other nonsense that polarizes people.
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Annihilated posted...

--kresnik-- posted...

When obama took sides onthe Trayvon matting thing.

This for sure was the biggest turning point.

I'd say it's the biggest turning point for white people. That was a moment when we went "fuck, we tried for years and years but we can't ignore this race shit anymore because now it actually affects us." In come the trolls, down goes morale for everybody.
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The simplest way to describe it is that the bomb has always been there, it was just waiting for the one straw that would break the camel's back, cause it to fall down, land on some flint, and set it off.
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I Like Toast posted...

And more people are starting to listen.

You feel this way? I don't think ANYBODY is listening.
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voldothegr8 posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Those polls you are pointing to could easily also be linked to the rise of Twitter, YouTube, smart phones, and other similar technological advances that led to the increase in polarization of events. There's less racial tension when people aren't exposed to reality of others and can live in their own bubbles.

Smartphones and the internet were well established prior to 2013

Yes. They would have been fire at exposing the racial violence on the west coast in the nineties, prior to the OJ trial. It was that atmosphere that made the trial so polarizing, but the reporting on that was very piecemeal and a lot of us had no idea because no one talked about it. So a lot of the back story of that mess was and still is lost to much of middle America who was isolated from that information network. Advances in information technology make that kind of media blackout much harder, and make the patterns much more obvious.
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The Admiral posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

The Admiral posted...

Yeah, and that was a police issue, not a race issue between black and white citizens. The fact that liberals now blame these things on white privilege and white supremacy, along with the fact that BLM always has some group of idiots chanting anti-white racist shit at their rallies, has tanked relations.

I'm a liberal and I blame it entirely on the police

You should blame other liberals then for building this bridge between the police and white people via identity politics and white privilege rhetoric. There is no logical reason police brutality should strain relations between non-police citizens. It only does so because stupidity on the left that says shit like "police discrimination is a form of white supremacy" and other nonsense that polarizes people.

Or we could stop the problem at its source and punish all instances of police brutality

Better to solve the problem than focus on a symptom of it

BilalPowell posted...

Race relations haven't changed at all for me. Idk what everyone's talking about.

White people were forcefully made aware that systematic and institutional racism still existed and wasn't magically dreamed away by MLK
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the race issues we have didn't just start existing after the trayvon martin shooting. they were there, just less people realized them. I don't consider living in ignorance to be better race relations

for example as an analogy, let's say we have a feudal society with peasants and nobility. the noblitity own most of the wealth and the peasants do most of the work. everyone is content for a while. suddenly some peasants "act up" and you have inter-class relations that are now considered worse cause more and more of the peasants upset with the situation. some from the nobility would say it was the fault of those who started complaining, rather than the shit situation they were in to begin with
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That_Happened posted...

? I don't think ANYBODY is listening

Then you're naive and become the type of person that Admiral complains about that wants to lump everyone together if even 1 person is a dick.

Are enough people listening, obviously not, but claiming no one just fuels what you should want to stop.
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When cops started murdering people
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

The Admiral posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

The Admiral posted...

Yeah, and that was a police issue, not a race issue between black and white citizens. The fact that liberals now blame these things on white privilege and white supremacy, along with the fact that BLM always has some group of idiots chanting anti-white racist shit at their rallies, has tanked relations.

I'm a liberal and I blame it entirely on the police

You should blame other liberals then for building this bridge between the police and white people via identity politics and white privilege rhetoric. There is no logical reason police brutality should strain relations between non-police citizens. It only does so because stupidity on the left that says shit like "police discrimination is a form of white supremacy" and other nonsense that polarizes people.

Or we could stop the problem at its source and punish all instances of police brutality

Or we could do both and start with the easy measure of calling out this identity politics garbage from the left whenever we see it. Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives. That kind of garbage is exactly what's contributing to this problem of strained race relations.
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voldothegr8 posted...

Smartphones and the internet were well established prior to 2013

Of course they were established, but that's not the point. You had more and more people having the ability to point to injustices and events happening and having video evidence to post about them. You then had the reactions to said incidents on both sides, and like any aspect of media, the loudest and most extreme voice gets the most attention. I honestly think it's a scenario where there's not one thing to blame or one "side", just having more information exposed more people to things they MAYBE would have read about, but likely ignored and never would have had to deal with.

I mean if I wanted to blame one side I could easily point to Conservative talk radio pushing the "THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO DIVIDE AND DESTROY THE COUNTRY!" narrative for the last 30 years, but that'd be lazy and untrue
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I Like Toast posted...

That_Happened posted...

? I don't think ANYBODY is listening

Then you're naive and become the type of person that Admiral complains about that wants to lump everyone together if even 1 person is a dick.

Are enough people listening, obviously not, but claiming no one just fuels what you should want to stop.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have been hyperbolic. I'll rephrase. With current technologies and the "me generation" I feel like way more people are yelling into a void and demanding to be heard, and comparatively very few are reasonably saying "Let's listen to what others have to say."

I agree with you that not enough people are listening, but I also don't see that getting any better without some kind of traumatic event.
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The Admiral posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

The Admiral posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

The Admiral posted...

Yeah, and that was a police issue, not a race issue between black and white citizens. The fact that liberals now blame these things on white privilege and white supremacy, along with the fact that BLM always has some group of idiots chanting anti-white racist shit at their rallies, has tanked relations.

I'm a liberal and I blame it entirely on the police

You should blame other liberals then for building this bridge between the police and white people via identity politics and white privilege rhetoric. There is no logical reason police brutality should strain relations between non-police citizens. It only does so because stupidity on the left that says shit like "police discrimination is a form of white supremacy" and other nonsense that polarizes people.

Or we could stop the problem at its source and punish all instances of police brutality

Or we could do both and start with the easy measure of calling out this identity politics garbage from the left whenever we see it. Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives. That kind of garbage is exactly what's contributing to this problem of strained race relations.

How is it that this is what you take a stand against but not dudes chanting "blood and soil"?
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The Admiral posted...

Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives

Don't you do this with nearly every post you make, but on the other side? Because your posts are incredibly lazy (and often not even fact-checked, Mr. "Hillary's campaign slogan was 'It's Her Turn'") and you're constantly putting up the bat-signal for conservative circle jerks.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

The Admiral posted...

Or we could do both and start with the easy measure of calling out this identity politics garbage from the left whenever we see it. Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives. That kind of garbage is exactly what's contributing to this problem of strained race relations.

How is it that this is what you take a stand against but not dudes chanting "blood and soil"?

You know why.

EDIT: It's not because of racism, by the way. Just so he doesn't try that cop-out.
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GOATSLAYER posted...

Things were relatively relaxed for most of the 90s and 2000s

Literally ignoring the LA and Crown Heights riots.
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That_Happened posted...

The Admiral posted...

Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives

Don't you do this with nearly every post you make, but on the other side? Because your posts are incredibly lazy (and often not even fact-checked, Mr. "Hillary's campaign slogan was 'It's Her Turn'") and you're constantly putting up the bat-signal for conservative circle jerks.

Nope, and you're just deflecting to other nonsense because addressing my post itself is too difficult for you.
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The Admiral posted...

There is no logical reason police brutality should strain relations between non-police citizens.

There is when one group is like "hey this is happening" and another group says, "no way, you're lying, you're wrong, ___ had nothing to do with it, respect police and this won't happen, don't break the law and this won't happen, oh you weren't breaking the law? well you must have breathed the wrong way and scared the cop and that's why you were shot you should've known better."

You're not fooling anyone.
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DanielCormier posted...

The Admiral posted...

There is no logical reason police brutality should strain relations between non-police citizens.

There is when one group is like "hey this is happening" and another group says, "no way, you're lying, you're wrong, ___ had nothing to do with it, respect police and this won't happen, don't break the law and this won't happen, oh you weren't breaking the law? well you must have breathed the wrong way and scared the cop and that's why you were shot you should've known better."

You're not fooling anyone.

The people saying "no way, you're lying" in response to Trayvon, Mike Brown, and Freddie Gray were right. And the folks who were wrong still dig in on these issues and want to pretend the side whose opinions are based in reality are being "racist."
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The Admiral posted...

Or we could do both and start with the easy measure of calling out this identity politics garbage from the left whenever we see it. Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives. That kind of garbage is exactly what's contributing to this problem of strained race relations.

Fix the problem, the symptoms go away. Addressing the symptoms is a waste of time when we have a bigger problem that needs solving

When minorities started spewing crap about white privilege and stuff.
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obama's election triggered white snowflakes

funny enough they blame him for themselves being triggered. personal responsibility much?

The Admiral posted...

That_Happened posted...

The Admiral posted...

Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives

Don't you do this with nearly every post you make, but on the other side? Because your posts are incredibly lazy (and often not even fact-checked, Mr. "Hillary's campaign slogan was 'It's Her Turn'") and you're constantly putting up the bat-signal for conservative circle jerks.

Nope, and you're just deflecting to other nonsense because addressing my post itself is too difficult for you.

I did address your post by pointing out that you're a hypocrite. There is no deflection.
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That_Happened posted...

The Admiral posted...

That_Happened posted...

The Admiral posted...

Stupidity like post 50 is a great example of how intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives

Don't you do this with nearly every post you make, but on the other side? Because your posts are incredibly lazy (and often not even fact-checked, Mr. "Hillary's campaign slogan was 'It's Her Turn'") and you're constantly putting up the bat-signal for conservative circle jerks.

Nope, and you're just deflecting to other nonsense because addressing my post itself is too difficult for you.

I did address your post by pointing out that you're a hypocrite. There is no deflection.

Calling me a hypocrite is an ad hominem, which is always a deflection. It's a lazy way of avoiding an argument you clearly can't respond to.
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remember admiral is a wall street guy who dates models who just happens to have both the time and interest to post on CE at all hours about the same thing over and over for years

The Admiral posted...

It's a lazy way of avoiding an argument you clearly can't respond to.

Admiral: intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives
Me: But you casually blame liberals for issues because it gets you virtue signaling points with other conservative trolls. Would that make you intellectually lazy?
Admiral: That's a deflection!
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GOATSLAYER posted...

Things were relatively relaxed for most of the 90s

You wot?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
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That_Happened posted...

and comparatively very few are reasonably saying "Let's listen to what others have to say."

It doesn't need to be said, it's, "yeah, that's pretty fucked up and we should stop that"

It's not like there is much of a debate to be had. Social changes aren't about making the people against it to change their minds it's about making the people who don't care, begin to care.
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That_Happened posted...

The Admiral posted...

It's a lazy way of avoiding an argument you clearly can't respond to.

Admiral: intellectually lazy folks just casually blame white racism for issues because it gets them virtue signaling points with other regressives
Me: But you casually blame liberals for issues because it gets you virtue signaling points with other conservative trolls. Would that make you intellectually lazy?
Admiral: That's a deflection!

It is a deflection. The second you start attacking the poster instead of the post, you're deflecting. If that's all you're capable of doing, fine, but at least own up to it.
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The Admiral posted...

It is a deflection. The second you start attacking the poster instead of the post, you're deflecting.

So why do you constantly do it?
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It's actually better because it was so terrible to start with and has been slowly easing down. It only seems worse because people are showing it more in public due to various things (Obama being elected, Trump is somehow linked to Neo Nazi support for many, news channels cover it for ratings).
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Kineth posted...

Obama's election. There was a noticeable increase in recruitment by white supremacist organizations as a result of Obama's election.

Lol, not even close to accurate.
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The Admiral posted...

DanielCormier posted...

The Admiral posted...

There is no logical reason police brutality should strain relations between non-police citizens.

There is when one group is like "hey this is happening" and another group says, "no way, you're lying, you're wrong, ___ had nothing to do with it, respect police and this won't happen, don't break the law and this won't happen, oh you weren't breaking the law? well you must have breathed the wrong way and scared the cop and that's why you were shot you should've known better."

You're not fooling anyone.

The people saying "no way, you're lying" in response to Trayvon, Mike Brown, and Freddie Gray were right. And the folks who were wrong still dig in on these issues and want to pretend the side whose opinions are based in reality are being "racist."

Alton Sterling, too - a felon brandishing a firearm he legally could not have, and reached for it during his arrest, was shot by cops.

Somehow due to racism?
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